Stingo Solid State Battery Charger

[sucahyo]

Yes. It produces a little backspike, but compared to the magnitude of the upspike it's almost nothing.

I see, thanks .

Well, i shot another video with much smaller battery, and three times bigger capacitor...Several hours passed by and voltage of the battery is the same : 11,92...Voltage of the output with this big capacitor is about 200 V...I could put even three times bigger capacitor than this big one, only i have to spend 12 $ for it...What do you think ?
YouTube - stingo romance

Don't buy it yet because we still don't know if we need bigger capacity or bigger voltage.

Yours already OU if you use it as water warmer .

Since you have two battery, see if you can charge the bigger battery. Parallel it with cap.

If you want to charge the source battery, how about making another stingo just like what you have now and use the capacitor to power it and charge the battery?

Creating secondary and charging source is impossible for me because connecting any of secondary terminal to the battery kill oscillation. So I guess second stingo is needed.

Attached is a circuit diagram which is very
similar to the "Stingo" arrangement.

Some important difference that I believe critical for producing radiant effect:
- stingo PNP is triggered by coil spike or something like that
- stingo PNP in inverted mode half the input current requirement
- stingo NPN base only connect to the PNP terminal without route to ground or resistor in between.

That circuit is different from stingo. But feel free to compare result.

My goal is driving transistor with spike, I would prefer the simplest version of stingo if possible.

Sucahyo, please read this post by Gyula and answer me please one thing that i was going to ask you a lot of time but always something disturb my mind : Capacitors in your stingo circuits are shunt capacitors ??? Here is whole Gyula post :

I don't understand what it means. The capacitor is DC filter. To prevent source positive powering load directly. doubling the efficiency.

But did you use the version with capacitor?


I think gyula miss the point. You show that you can make something oscillate without discharging the source battery. If you keep reading same high voltage at the capacitor then the circuit do some work, capacitor will reduce charge if there is nothing to charge them. Meaning there is work to keep charge level of capacitor but you achieve it without discharging source battery.

I think measuring input current is not a big deal. You can hear the stingo sing, the battery voltage do not decrease, and yet the amp meter show positive value. The amp meter must be lying or unable to detect what kept the source battery voltage stand still.

Keep in mind that stingo work differently from other radiant circuit. Stingo consumption reduce with load. So suggestion from other circuit experimenter may not be relevant or applicable to stingo.

Which stingo version that you use? single diode or FWBR recovery?

[cikljamas]

I
Yours already OU if you use it as water warmer .

A little explanation for this ?

Since you have two battery, see if you can charge the bigger battery. Parallel it with cap.

Well, here we are, there is no point to do this because my single "selfcharging"
(not yet selfcharging indeed)battery is already in parallel with capacitor, it
means that i do not use dc filtering capacitor (it should be electrolytic i suppose for that purpose, but i dont know what value you suggest ?)but
running capacitor that i connect in parallel with (after) FWBR, and also in
parallel with battery (just like in bedini motors)...The purpose of that
running capacitor is to increase the voltage of FWBR from 80 to 180 V...

If you want to charge the source battery, how about making another stingo just like what you have now and use the capacitor to power it and charge the battery?

Now that you know how i put my running (not electrolytic, or whatever kind
you use or you think of) capacitor (after/in parallel with FWBR) your above
suggestion is going to be changed i think, but i am very curious in what way...

I don't understand what it means. The capacitor is DC filter. To prevent source positive powering load directly. doubling the efficiency.

I hope you are going to give me answers about this after long time i
hesitate to ask you that : what exactly capacitor you use and what value of that capacitor should be ?...And do you think that i should put
that capacitor anyway though i use my running capacitor ? I tried to use
some electrolytic capacitors after FWBR (does it make sense at all) but
i think that this way i am just blocking output current...I dont know how
it looked like if i put that electrolytic before FWBR (but, does it make
sense too)...

But did you use the version with capacitor?

Dont understand what you mean...

Regards !

[skaght]

I've noticed a couple things paying with the circuit. Different resistance is obviously important for different coils, air core or otherwise. Sometimes if you flip the PNP from reverse biased to normal biased (switch collector and emitter) you can get a coil to resonate that didn't before.

I wanted to try to restore a damaged lead acid 12 volt battery with this circuit. I hooked up the charge part of the circuit without a cap and a single diode and it's charging a lead acid battery with a weird waveform. It reminds me of a meyer's water splitting circuit, with two frequencies present. I'm not certain if the battery is oscillating or what, but it's interesting! I tried to take a scope shot, but my digital camera doesn't like my nimh batteries...

Has anyone else looked at the charging waveform and seen anything like this?

___|||||_______|||||_______|||||______


Before I hooked up the battery I had just a single spike. I'm thinking about trying some hydrolysis experiments with the circuit once my battery is charged.

Oh and one last thing! With an AV plug, I could also detect a small amount of power when I was touching the LED leads (adding capacitance with my own body.) The power was much less than a standard SEC exciter, but the effect was present!

[cikljamas]

I noticed blowup of my NPN to my face, and after that i noticed that my NPN
exploded because my PNP was broken...I noticed that i survived without
any damage on my face, and my ears are well too...So, beware of stingo,
he can be dangerous too...

[Farmhand]

Hi skaght, I think I have a waveform like you describe.

Has anyone else looked at the charging waveform and seen anything like this?

___|||||_______|||||_______|||||______

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

Is that kind of what you mean above ? It's from my mini three pole quad pulsing per magnet pass.

Cheers

[skaght]

Farmhand:

The waveform is similar, but I don't have the negative half of the wave that you posted, all the spikes go back to ground, not past it. Thanks for the example for clarification!

That waveform was from a slayer exciter air core coil on the stingo. The lead acid charges much faster with an MOT with the high voltage output shorted. I also tried an NST with the high voltage output shorted as well and it worked fairly well. Now the charging waveform I'm getting is a nice h. I'm also using my PNP normal biased and still no cap's on the output leads with a single diode. I'll have to measure efficiency at a later date, but right now I'm just trying to resurrect my lead acid battery! Oh and I'm using a different PNP, one that has a bit better stats: FJP1943otu

[sucahyo]

I forget to mention before that what I see as the equal of touching the radiant positive output with hand is ungrounded water.

In short:
Kevin suggestion = earth ground connect after the diode
my suggestion = ungrounded water connect after the diode

A little explanation for this ?

You get a circuit that do not consume battery power and still heating up the transistor or coil. If we utilize the heat, we got free heat.

I still can not experiment with stingo yet because of battery problem.. I can only watch now.

Well, here we are, there is no point to do this because my single "selfcharging" (not yet selfcharging indeed)battery is already in parallel with capacitor, it means that i do not use dc filtering capacitor

I am confuse. Can you post diagram? maybe by modifying mine?

what exactly capacitor you use and what value of that capacitor should be ?

1uF 250V taken from broken computer power supply.

And do you think that i should put that capacitor anyway though i use my running capacitor ?

Sorry, I can't give suggestion. I am not sure which circuit that you use for the non discharging battery yet. Please tell which circuit.

Sometimes if you flip the PNP from reverse biased to normal biased (switch collector and emitter) you can get a coil to resonate that didn't before.

Thank for the tip . I guess we can use normal bias if effeciency is not a problem.

I hooked up the charge part of the circuit without a cap and a single diode and it's charging a lead acid battery with a weird waveform. It reminds me of a meyer's water splitting circuit, with two frequencies present.

That is very interesting .

Oh and one last thing! With an AV plug, I could also detect a small amount of power when I was touching the LED leads (adding capacitance with my own body.) The power was much less than a standard SEC exciter, but the effect was present!

Yes .

I noticed blowup of my NPN to my face, and after that i noticed that my NPN exploded because my PNP was broken...I noticed that i survived without any damage on my face, and my ears are well too...So, beware of stingo, he can be dangerous too...

Wow, thanks for the warning. That happen with 12V source?

That waveform was from a slayer exciter air core coil on the stingo. The lead acid charges much faster with an MOT with the high voltage output shorted. I also tried an NST with the high voltage output shorted as well and it worked fairly well. Now the charging waveform I'm getting is a nice h. I'm also using my PNP normal biased and still no cap's on the output leads with a single diode. I'll have to measure efficiency at a later date, but right now I'm just trying to resurrect my lead acid battery! Oh and I'm using a different PNP, one that has a bit better stats: FJP1943otu

Thanks for the info . Do the PNP get very hot? I ask because I think you use high current to be able to increase output with shorted secondary.

[skaght]

Do the PNP get very hot? I ask because I think you use high current to be able to increase output with shorted secondary.

It depends... I've been playing with the circuit and it's fascinating! I can adjust the resistance and typically keep the PNP pretty cool. My current arrangement is using a 15kv NST with the output shorted. If I open and close the HV output of the NST a couple times, the resonant frequency jumps up by a factor of ten or so (from ~200 Hz to 5KHz) and the circuit seems to run a bit cooler, while still charging the lead acid battery. Once it's stabilized at the higher frequency I can short the output of the NST again and it stays at the higher resonance. The effect is pretty dependent on resistance as well. I've also been getting intense and complex harmonics with the NST, which makes me think this may have some parallels to the COP > 1 inductive heating circuit...

Sucahyo, thanks so much for sharing this circuit! I think there's a lot more to discover with this...

[Godfrey]

Adding Yet Another Knob?

The PNP Transistor is connected to operate in what
is known as "inverse mode." The Collector is functioning
as the Emitter and the Emitter is functioning as the
Collector.

By working in "inverse mode" it effectively reduces the
base drive to the NPN Switching Transistor thereby
preventing it from being overdriven.

The Current Gain (Beta) of a transistor in inverse mode
is approximately 10% of normal gain.

To attain the same effect with the PNP Transistor
in normal mode a variable resistor could be connected
in series with the NPN Base lead in order to "tune"
base drive for maximum efficiency.

There is nothing wrong with "inverse mode" operation.
It is seldom used but a good "trick" to remember when
it can be taken advantage of.

Yes, I remember your first helpful thoughts on this!

Attached is a circuit diagram which is very
similar to the "Stingo" arrangement.

By studying the circuit connections it may
be possible to try varying certain component
locations in the circuit layout in order to
achieve optimum performance and stability.

Cheers, just a scan tells me you’re really onto something!

I have been searching quite a bit for a PNP/NPN multivibrator circuit example like this, that didn’t use a capacitor to produce the oscillation. The 18 Ohm resistor and electrolytic capacitor to the left seem to be just for power decoupling. We can ignore the diode/LED configuration to the right also, for the time being.

This can help understanding the Stingo oscillation states if we pretend the collector and emitters are not reversed.

It seemed to be on your mind too, as highlighted above…what hit me right away as worth exploring is to put maybe a 1k trimpot between the PNP emitter and NPN base and see if the Stingo is amendable to tuning this way also.

We’ve been experiencing excessive NPN heating and drift in the oscillation frequency. Such a tweak might help both.

Thanks so much for adding your technical substance to this thread, SeaMonkey!

- Godfrey

[sucahyo]

It depends... I've been playing with the circuit and it's fascinating! I can adjust the resistance and typically keep the PNP pretty cool. My current arrangement is using a 15kv NST with the output shorted. If I open and close the HV output of the NST a couple times, the resonant frequency jumps up by a factor of ten or so (from ~200 Hz to 5KHz) and the circuit seems to run a bit cooler, while still charging the lead acid battery. Once it's stabilized at the higher frequency I can short the output of the NST again and it stays at the higher resonance. The effect is pretty dependent on resistance as well. I've also been getting intense and complex harmonics with the NST, which makes me think this may have some parallels to the COP > 1 inductive heating circuit...

Sucahyo, thanks so much for sharing this circuit! I think there's a lot more to discover with this...

Thank you .

The open and close trick show how unstable this circuit is lol. Thanks for the info .

I highly believe that sharper signal improve output, so I believe inductive heating can be improved with somewhat similar way of transistor triggering.



@Godfrey, I don't think heat is a problem. Dr Robert Adams reach COP>1 with very very hot transistor that he had to use water cooling for that. And the first planned implementation of adams motor is water heater ....

I also believe that heat at NPN is also sign that we are switching very close to transistor limit. If the NPN heated up more than what they do in normal circuit, I am glad .


If you really think frequency is important, use PNP and NPN combination with timer chip. Or for similar effect, two circuit. One with 555 and NPN is used to make a coil spike, and then we use the spike to drive a PNP and NPN circuit.

[cikljamas]

You get a circuit that do not consume battery power and still heating up the transistor or coil. If we utilize the heat, we got free heat.

How it looks like ?

I am confuse. Can you post diagram? maybe by modifying mine?
Sorry, I can't give suggestion. I am not sure which circuit that you use for the non discharging battery yet. Please tell which circuit.

This one :
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1289439233
Could you tell me something about this circuit that Gmeast attached in
other thread...It should be used for selfcharging battery but i am not sure
where to connect toroid to that circuit...I suppose that PWM output goes
back to + battery, but i am not sure where goes triangularwave output, and how to articulate this 4th op amps on the IC as a buffer...
I put that same question to gmeast but i am not sure that he is going
to answer me, and i think it is very interesting circuit that we could
use instead of Bob Boyce/Watkykjy circuits...
Here is whole gmeasts post :

Originally Posted by gmeast View Post
I have begun. I am sourcing analog components. The circuit I am using to generate a Variable Frequency PWM is a bulletproof circuit comprised of simple low-cost components and it works ... every time. I have built these many times. The main components cost less than $1.00 each. We will need 3 of them for three frequencies ... < $3.00. Then there are some resistors and capacitors.

Some company called MAXIM put a circuit up on the internet to sell their stuff. This is Radio Shack-level stuff and is NOT proprietary and so here it is on my ftp:

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...hModulator.pdf

Now if you use a quad-op amp, you can have one VF PWM using 3 of the 4 op-amps on the IC for the VF PWM and use the fourth OP-Amp as a buffer and put some gain on it (or not) to drive hard a FET or Transistor. If you use a 10Mhz Quad Op-Amp then you can make nice, short, sharp, steep pulses that are perhaps 0.5% duty cycle at 50KHz (1/200). Can you believe it costs only $0.63 each in single quantities ?... And they are very available.

This is my starting point since my issue with the transformer remains unanswered and thus unresolved ... ah, to toroid or not to toroid ... that is the question ... 'tis better to ... oh, sorry.

Well, there ya go,

Greg

Rgds !

[cikljamas]

It seems that because of copy paste method you are not going to be
able to see schematic of gmeast by clicking this link that i copied, so
i am gonna attach it here :

[sucahyo]

How it looks like ?

It look like a glass shaped heatsink.

This one :
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1289439233

Thank you .

It is very interesting that you get no discharging at source battery with that circuit. I found that my recent cap location modification is 30% more efficient.

I got confused because I did not think you are using battery in charged part too...

And I though you are adding diode from negative to charged battery positive. You can still do that with FWBR version to get 40% more efficiency.

Could you tell me something about this circuit that Gmeast attached in other thread...It should be used for selfcharging battery but i am not sure where to connect toroid to that circuit...I suppose that PWM output goes back to + battery, but i am not sure where goes triangularwave output, and how to articulate this 4th op amps on the IC as a buffer...

That is no different then many 555 in one chip and we use it the same way as 555, output to the NPN transistor base or something.

Remember that the circuit is just part of the requirement. The toroid is also important. The toroid maybe different from the electrolysis implementation.

I don't think there is much info available about the frequency and how we add it together on Bob Boyce non electrolysis implementation.

You will find more info about it on TPU implementation. The real TPU don't use battery by some people obtain power multiplication with it. or you can search waterfuelforall archive. I remember someone posting a circuit that synching three frequency with cheap timer circuit.

I would try powering with spike instead of triggering current to the all three coil of the Bob Boyce toroid.

[cikljamas]

It is very interesting that you get no discharging at source battery with that circuit. I found that my recent cap location modification is 30% more efficient.

Would you be so kind to show me that recent cap location ?

And I though you are adding diode from negative to charged battery positive. You can still do that with FWBR version to get 40% more efficiency.

Could you show me schematic to see how would it be (combination FWBR
with diodes) ?

That is no different then many 555 in one chip and we use it the same way as 555, output to the NPN transistor base or something.

I got your schematic with 555 and relay, is it even better solution
for selfcharging purpose ?...
Could i use auto relay or it got to be some special purpose relay ?

For your kindness Croatian mariachi sings for you :
YouTube - Los Caballeros - La Golondrina
Rgds !

[sucahyo]

Would you be so kind to show me that recent cap location ?
Could you show me schematic to see how would it be (combination FWBR
with diodes) ?

Here is all together:



You can also add capacitor in parallel with charged battery to improve charging speed. I don't use it because it heat up battery and I rarely monitor how long a battery is charged . Safer for me without cap .

I got your schematic with 555 and relay, is it even better solution for selfcharging purpose ?...

No, relay or 555 draw more current. Spark problem in relay reduce speed and efficiency. 555 signal is just dull in comparison. If you can achieve ou with 555 or relay, I believe transistor circuit only will get you better.

The circuit you post at this is it thread are cap dumper circuit where relay work as switch.

Could i use auto relay or it got to be some special purpose relay ?

Any relay will be fine. Better if you can pry it open for tweaking and cleaning purposes. Relay is unreliable for hours of operation.

Thanks for the song . I am surprise to hear it at first because I thought they gonna sing Indonesia tanah air beta:
YouTube - Utha Likumahua - Indonesia Tanah Air Beta