Stingo Solid State Battery Charger

[cikljamas]

That is nice . I think you can make a thread for it. Do it need special coil?
.

No, no coil, what astonished me is that one 3V one led little joule thief drains about 70 mAmps which means 70*3= 210 mW, and this one device
that lights 5 leds drains 9 mAmps which is 9*12 = 108 mW, which
means almost twice less consumed current and 10 times (5 leds) less
consumed energy, so you are right, i could open new thread on it but since
i am not sure that there is some catch i just put this picture to joule thief
thread to see what guys there are going to say about this device...

However I got unconsistent timing, I don't know what cause it, the timing sped up or slow down it self.. I just ignore it and try to switch load and source of two 3V. Will see what happen after hours of run.

Ok, let us know...
So, this circuit is enough to run stingo/bingo like this :
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

[sucahyo]

No, no coil, what astonished me is that one 3V one led little joule thief drains about 70 mAmps which means 70*3= 210 mW, and this one device
that lights 5 leds drains 9 mAmps which is 9*12 = 108 mW, which
means almost twice less consumed current and 10 times (5 leds) less
consumed energy, so you are right, i could open new thread on it but since
i am not sure that there is some catch i just put this picture to joule thief
thread to see what guys there are going to say about this device...

That is great .

Do you compare it with your own Joule thief?

So, this circuit is enough to run stingo/bingo like this :
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

[/quote]Yes. I already run it right now and found that it is not good idea to run it full power. I will run it again with lower power.

If we can get stable result, this can be used to compare circuit efficiency.

[cikljamas]

That is great .

Do you compare it with your own Joule thief?

Yes, with one of them...
I made diagram, here it is, i hope you are going to test it soon !

Yes. I already run it right now and found that it is not good idea to run it full power. I will run it again with lower power.

If we can get stable result, this can be used to compare circuit efficiency.[/QUOTE]

What does it mean FULL POWER, and where is the line between full and
lower power ?

[sucahyo]

Yes, with one of them...
I made diagram, here it is, i hope you are going to test it soon !

Thanks . How many current a LED need individually without that kind of circuit? maybe with just a 2.2K resistor?

Sorry for asking, my meter do nto go that low.

What does it mean FULL POWER, and where is the line between full and lower power ?

full power just means the maximum power my circuit can deliver. I don't use it at its most efficienct result too. So I don't expect surprise. But will try to get consistent result, something like this configuration drop A battery from x.xx to y.yy everytime.

Battery known to have better efficiency at low current draw. So using it at full power reduce efficiency.

Some suggest C20. For a 1000mAh battery, this means I have to draw only 50mA.

[cikljamas]

Thanks . How many current a LED need individually without that kind of circuit? maybe with just a 2.2K resistor?

Sorry for asking, my meter do nto go that low.

Well 9/5 is less then 2 mAmps for just one led, but you have to
use 12 V batt., it wont work with lower volts devices, at least
it wont work unless you change values of components, but i am
content with 12 V as source and these component values, and
if you want you could add 5 more leds running your device with just
18 mAmps instead of cutting off number of leds, but everyone should
make his/her own best choice regarding number of leds....

Some suggest C20. For a 1000mAh battery, this means I have to draw only 50mA.

C20 is what exactly ? It seems like you are talking about cop ?
And even if it is so, could you explain it a little bit in context of relay story
that we discuss off ?

[sucahyo]

Well 9/5 is less then 2 mAmps for just one led, but you have to use 12 V batt., it wont work with lower volts devices, at least it wont work unless you change values of components, but i am content with 12 V as source and these component values, and if you want you could add 5 more leds running your device with just 18 mAmps instead of cutting off number of leds, but everyone should make his/her own best choice regarding number of leds....

Ok, thanks

C20 is what exactly ? It seems like you are talking about cop ?
And even if it is so, could you explain it a little bit in context of relay story
that we discuss off ?

C20 refer to battery discharge rate. Battery service life depend on how much we force it to work. The higher current we force it to work, the quicker it become empty.

C number refer to how many fraction of capacity. C1 refer to the use of 7Ah battery at 1 amp. C20 of 7Ah battery is 350mA, a 1/20 of its capacity.

Some people mention that battery is best discharged or charged at 1/20 of its capacity, usually referred as C20.



guruji, I have some correction to the cap isolated FWBR for joule thief. Will post the circuit and the reason soon.

[sucahyo]

Withdrawing FWBR recommendation for now

Guruji,
here is some result. Using 3Volts source. This show the importance of testing every combination. I record it, will post the video if needed.

Joule thief experiment with 1 ohm load



single diode negative to positive = 220mA, no load consume = 580mA, with load consume 550mA.
Current efficiency = 40%



single diode negative to negative, dead circuit = 620mA, consume 620mA
single diode negative to negative, live circuit = 350mA, consume 880mA
Current efficiency = 39.7%, dead circuit = 100%



partial cap isolated FWBR = 160mA, consume 480mA
Current efficiency = 33%


Stingo experiment with 1 ohm load


partial cap isolated FWBR = 120mA, consume 230mA, no load consume 440
Current efficiency = 52%



single diode negative to positive = 150mA, with load consume 180mA.
Current efficiency = 83%


I fail to make the circuit run when using single diode negative to negative


Summary:
1. Partial cap isolated FWBR produce worse result, which is surprising for me. I think I will try to do more experiment with the FWBR. My first FWBR double it. Maybe this is what make cikljamas confuse...

2. Stingo about twice more efficient than joule thief.


3. The consumption number are weird:
Joule thief consumption with resistor as load:
3 ohm < 1 ohm < no load

Stingo consumption with resistor as load:
1 ohm < 3 ohm < no load

So there is resonant load in joule thief while stingo just consume less with less load resistance.

[Guruji]

Results

Hi Sucahyo looking forward for your correct schematic with cap for JT.
Thanks

[sucahyo]

FWBR is a must for battery application, sorry, forgot.

Hi Sucahyo looking forward for your correct schematic with cap for JT.
Thanks

Oops, I forgot to mention that when I use single diode my battery turn into capacitor, have voltage but do not have charge. With FWBR my battery have a good charge and never turn into capacitor.

I experience dead battery after using FWBR but it happen because the electrode is corroded so much and shorted or fall apart and disconnect the internal.

So, even if single diode may give more efficient result for spesific implementation, on battery charging, FWBR is better.

But I still open to suggestion if anyone ever have battery turn into capacitor with FWBR solution. Notice that Bedini use FWBR after isolating the coil. But that implementation only possible with external timer or trigger. I fail to make it work with stingo but may try it again in the future.

[sucahyo]

Different source voltage different result

Still do not play with FWBR yet, but already have different result.....

Joule thief experiment with 3V battery load with 11.5V source.
single diode negative to positive = 290mA, consume 1100mA, no load consume = 820mA. (Ef=26%)
partial cap isolated FWBR = 300mA, consume 1050mA (Ef=28%)

The efficiency is better with cap FWBR with 11.5V source!


Stingo experiment with 3V battery load with 11.5 source.
single diode negative to positive = 840mA, consume 1190mA, no load consume = 590mA. (Ef=70%)
partial cap isolated FWBR = 800mA, consume 1280mA, no load consume = 2180mA.(Ef=62.5%)

In stingo, the FWBR still produce worse result. Notice that I do not use toroid on my old experiment, only transformer ...............


Lesson: Try everything!



BTW, I don't have good SLA to try so I can not say if single diode combiner change battery into capacitor. Anyone willling to try?

[Guruji]

Cap to JT

Hi Sucahyo so I should leave the JT with cap and fwbr as you're saying cause it's more efficient yes?
By the way what is that stingo it's amazing that circuit. I left it around 3 days going on a discharged battery around 6v and charging another. On the source battery is holding the charge as if not draining.
Amazing.

[lancerdoom1]

@sucahyo
i have this fan running on bedini circut and i get 1200rpm


but when i run the same fan on your stingo bedini circuit i get almost 1200rpm but the transistors get hot instantly. The coils are 5 ohm.



how can i achieve more than 3600 RPM

thanks,

[cikljamas]

relay

Hi Sucahyo !

This relay stuff is much more complicated than i thought it would be...
Where to start from ?

I understand how relay works,but i know how to use it in simple
circuits, but this is unbelievable and IMHO almost impossible task...
But, of course it must be again some catch 22 that i do not get it
at this moment...

Relay works in one way, when we switch the relay trigger wire(86)
then we get output power through high power feed(30 or COM)
on high power output normally open contact(87)...I do not know
what is 87a (normally closed contact) for ??? Cause from 30 or COM to
87a there is always current flow, we do not need relay coil to realize that
flow, so it is pointless INHO connection, or maybe it is not, but i do not
see how and why ???

So, if we use relay in this standard way what situation we have here ?
We have one open contact (from battery plus to stingo pnp base if it is
reverse mode or emitter in normal mode), and when we switch trigger
wire (relay coil feed) than we turn on stingo but in the same time negative
pole must be connected normally (not through relay) with npn emitter !

And in your diagram we have to change whenever relay is switched on or
off, all four contacts (battery power plus, battery power minus,
charged batt. plus, and charged batt. minus) in the same time !!!

I bought today two relays, and when i sat down to assemble all together
than i found out that i do not understand how to apply your diagram, so
help, i am drowning...

You see, i am working on this stuff, but i just had to stop at this point...

Cheers !

[sucahyo]

Hi Sucahyo so I should leave the JT with cap and fwbr as you're saying cause it's more efficient yes?

Use this one:

By the way what is that stingo it's amazing that circuit. I left it around 3 days going on a discharged battery around 6v and charging another. On the source battery is holding the charge as if not draining.

That is awesome, what if you put LED on the load instead of battery?

@sucahyo
i have this fan running on bedini circut and i get 1200rpm

but when i run the same fan on your stingo bedini circuit i get almost 1200rpm but the transistors get hot instantly. The coils are 5 ohm.

how can i achieve more than 3600 RPM

thanks,

Did you use this circuit?


5 ohm is very low, mine more than 50 ohm. Maybe you need to use bigger resistor value, 100K or 500K. Can you notice the coil sing if you raise the potentiometer value?

I bought today two relays, and when i sat down to assemble all together than i found out that i do not understand how to apply your diagram, so help, i am drowning...

You see, i am working on this stuff, but i just had to stop at this point...

Thank you .

Here is mine.



Did you use DPDT (8 leg)? Can you post a picture of it? so I can make a photo diagram for easier wiring.


We trigger the relay together so we connect the relay coil in parallel if we use more than one relay.

[cikljamas]

Did you use DPDT (8 leg)? Can you post a picture of it? so I can make a photo diagram for easier wiring.


We trigger the relay together so we connect the relay coil in parallel if we use more than one relay.

I thought you use either dpdt or relay, now it seems we have to use both
of them ?...I have just one 6 leg dpdt, but as i understand it at the first
sight we could use two dpdts without relay and what i still do not understand
is how to combine two dpdts with relay, and they have to be 8 leg ?
I just saw you 8 leg dpdt picture, i have to try to figure out how you connect
all that wires together, but is there 8 leg dpdts available in stores or is it
rare one tipes ?

And another one puzzle is this : i made today your 555 circuit and tested it
with my led flasher and the result is next : every 20 sec. relay just turns off
(for millisecond) leds, and after that leds continue to flash as before, and i
expected that circuit somehow turns off the flasher or stingo or whatever,
and after 20 sec. turns on flasher, or stingo..., and again turns off, turns on,
turns off, turns on,but the state of turns off should last for 20 sec., not just
one millisecond as well as state of turns on which last most of the time,
except that little one millisecond...So, maybe missing link is
normally closed contact point which i do not use and i see in your
picture you use it ???

Since it is a little bit complicated i have to spend a little bit
more time to put all these connections in mosaic that makes sense to me...