Stingo Solid State Battery Charger

[cikljamas]

Congratulation .

Yes. DPDT is mentioned in that link . DPDT is relay type.

Wow, i was lucky that this guy gave me different relay, that helped
me a lot, otherwise i could still hit the wall with this relays stuff...

I have that problem too, but now my 555 just not working, still trying to make it switch on each 30 seconds ....

I think i could help you about that : Use 220 uf electrolytic, i think this is
most important, other values were completely wrong, just 220 uf works
well...second : pull out that diode that goes from pin 7 to electrolytic plus,
10 nf capacitor you do not need too....third : resistor that goes from batt.
plus to pin 7 could be 10-100 kohms, but the most important is resistor
that goes from pin 7 to electrolytic plus : there you can put resistor from
1 Mohm or resistor with higher values(2,3 M or so), and then your circuit
is going to work well !

If you have empty batteries before and you have almost full battery that consume the big one only a fraction, then won't you have COP>1 already ?

I hope so !

What if you try it with the big battery start at 11.45V?

Why 11,45 V ?
Cause i do not think it is good to use battery as primary (source)
battery when voltage is below 12 V !

Example
= (1.00V * 7Ah) / (0.01V * 100Ah)
= 7

above example COP is 7.

I disconnected battery 5 hours ago, and battery is now at 12,34 V
and before charging was 11, 85 i think, and primary was about 12,75
and now is 12,74 so according that formula it would be like this :
0,50*5 Ah(i think it is 5 Ah,not 7 Ah) = 2,5
0,01 * 41 Ah = 0,41
2,5/0,41 = 6,09

If it is so, than i must congratulate both of us !
But i must ask you : do you think that this method could
assure us that this calculating result is real reflexion of
reality ? And is 5 hours after charging enough for secondary
battery to stop droping, because this old one still droping
a little bit ?

Cheers !

[sucahyo]

I think i could help you about that : Use 220 uf electrolytic, i think this is most important, other values were completely wrong, just 220 uf works well...second : pull out that diode that goes from pin 7 to electrolytic plus, 10 nf capacitor you do not need too....third : resistor that goes from batt.
plus to pin 7 could be 10-100 kohms, but the most important is resistor that goes from pin 7 to electrolytic plus : there you can put resistor from 1 Mohm or resistor with higher values(2,3 M or so), and then your circuit is going to work well !

Thanks, I will try .

Why 11,45 V ?
Cause i do not think it is good to use battery as primary (source)
battery when voltage is below 12 V !

Ok then, from 12V . or see bellow.

I disconnected battery 5 hours ago, and battery is now at 12,34 V and before charging was 11, 85 i think, and primary was about 12,75 and now is 12,74 so according that formula it would be like this :
0,50*5 Ah(i think it is 5 Ah,not 7 Ah) = 2,5
0,01 * 41 Ah = 0,41
2,5/0,41 = 6,09

If it is so, than i must congratulate both of us !
But i must ask you : do you think that this method could assure us that this calculating result is real reflexion of reality ? And is 5 hours after charging enough for secondary battery to stop droping, because this old one still droping a little bit ?

The variation that can change calculation is if the battery capacity is not the same as the label. So 5Ah is actually 1 Ah or something.

Getting smaller charger at the cost of very little of the big is already wonderful and it is real.

However, if you doubt it, then use the smaller one to power the relay timer. If the smaller one still get charged and the big one only reduce very little than you have self charging .

And if you can use the smaller one to restore the bigger one charge to the initial value (without switching it around) and the smaller one have bigger value than before then you have self charging COP>1 indeed .


In short:
- note the voltage of small and big battery
- use the small one to power the timer and relay
- note the voltage change after some hour
- if there is battery that have less voltage than before, use the other to charge it
- If no battery drop voltage and one battery have higher voltage than before you get COP>1.

Congratulation .

[cikljamas]

In short:
- note the voltage of small and big battery
- use the small one to power the timer and relay
- note the voltage change after some hour
- if there is battery that have less voltage than before, use the other to charge it
- If no battery drop voltage and one battery have higher voltage than before you get COP>1.

Congratulation .

Thanks for your advices!
I will make some measurement today, here the day just starts, so
i am gonna have enough time in next 24 hours to make new tests,
but you see my both little batteries are now after more than 24 hours
since yesterdays charging exactly 12.16 mA, it seems that this is
about their best (little batteries - 5 Ah), so according your formula
it should be still OU, but the problem is how to be sure that these
batteries are not so good desulfated (after many cycles of radiant
charging) that they show better results that it would be if we
charged normal batteries (which have not been charged so many
time with this radiant stuffs) ???

Cheers !

[sucahyo]

Thanks for your advices!
I will make some measurement today, here the day just starts, so i am gonna have enough time in next 24 hours to make new tests, but you see my both little batteries are now after more than 24 hours since yesterdays charging exactly 12.16 mA, it seems that this is about their best (little batteries - 5 Ah), so according your formula it should be still OU, but the problem is how to be sure that these batteries are not so good desulfated (after many cycles of radiant charging) that they show better results that it would be if we charged normal batteries (which have not been charged so many time with this radiant stuffs) ???

Cheers !

Thanks. I will look forward for your result .

Don't worry about "conditioned" battery. In fact, in here people are saying you can not get COP>1 without conditioned battery. You must have conditioned battery first before getting COP>1.

Many people spent weeks trying to condition the battery. It is not importnat if your battery is conditioned or not, as long as you get more useable voltage after, I think you are doing good .

[sucahyo]

People mention neon protect transistor. I think this can be true especially if you use the circuit at high power. The transistor can heat up and die if there is no load.

I found that my transistor die more often because of spark at the output. Especially on single diode version. I never experience it with FWBR combiner version though. I often replace the circuit while the circuit is ON.

However, if you already put a load, neon can act as a load too and may reduce the output. This especially true on load at secondary like car coil or CFL lighter.




This bellow is a reminder for Watson because he got negative result twice because he draw it wrong twice ....

When replicating the FWBR, Please make sure that you have follow the schematic correctly. Especially if you redraw it again. I realize that my drawing look very complicated. I wish I can draw it in 3D. Trace the current flow from start to finish.

My circuit maybe look very weird even for people with electronics education. But I try to draw it as correct and as similar to real as possible.

[sucahyo]

Finally, isolated coil version

I finally succeed in isolating the coil with another PNP, Inspired by Bedini patent. My first implementation is self charging, inspired by Mile_high post about callahan:



The result is not COP>1, the battery kept discharging. But it is still interesting that the circuit do let the battery charge it self.

Battery voltage 2.74V standing, 2.51V running without load, 2.63V self charging. Consume 280mA running without load, 130mA self charging.

In normal use:
Efficiency two nimh charging two nicad, with normal FWBR charging 80ma consume 200mA = 40%, with single diode charging 90mA consume 190mA = 47%.

Worst efficiency surprise me.


Video of stingo application for self desultfator:
YouTube - Stingo self desulfator

Standing voltage is 4.25V. After attaching the circuit voltage go down to 2.91V that slowly rising to 2.95V.

[Guruji]

Self charging

Self charging is amazing this is great achievement Sucahyo
Thanks

[sucahyo]

Thanks. What is shown is not the increase of charge of battery though. It is just an increase of voltage. With broken battery I observe the voltage go up and down during run. On capacitor it will always deplete.

I found it to be a great circuit for discharging a battery.

When we condition the battery we charge and discharge. I have charger that can vary current, now I have discharger that can vary current too. Both doing great to desulfate battery .

[Guruji]

Stingo test

I hooked two half dead 12v batteries in series to acquire more voltage to charge another battery. It seems that even the source batteries are going higher in voltage. Does Stingo self charges too?

[7imix]

I hooked two half dead 12v batteries in series to acquire more voltage to charge another battery. It seems that even the source batteries are going higher in voltage. Does Stingo self charges too?

In the past, I have suspected this might be a possibility, if it is tuned properly. I even saw the current simulation run backwards in a version of stingo that I built in a circuit simulator app. I have to play around to find the right inductance, resistance, and voltage again though.

It could also just be desulfating the source batteries as it charges another battery, though.

[cikljamas]

relay switching - charging

Sucahyo, i found the very simple way of connecting two charging
devices(i used farmhands desulfator since it seems its efficiency
is the best) using negative-negative mode and few days ago i
tested intercharging of two batteries so that relay was switching between these source/charging batteries every 2,5 minutes, and after awhile (few hours or so) i noticed that there is slightly discharging from both batteries instead of charging as we supposed it could/should happens according that formula, and
with help of possible advantage that this on/off method could obtain...

So, i was disappointed, but what can i do ?
That formula promised a lot, but it seems it does not work like that in
practice...

Happy new year !

Cheers !

[sucahyo]

Happy new year everyone .

I hooked two half dead 12v batteries in series to acquire more voltage to charge another battery. It seems that even the source batteries are going higher in voltage. Does Stingo self charges too?

I agree with 7imix, it could be self desulfating, not self charging. I think cikljamas experience this too.

See if it still produce that effect after few cycle.

I never observe that effect though. So, congratulation .

Sucahyo, i found the very simple way of connecting two charging devices (i used farmhands desulfator since it seems its efficiency is the best) using negative-negative mode and few days ago i tested intercharging of two batteries so that relay was switching between these source/charging batteries every 2,5 minutes, and after awhile (few hours or so) i noticed that there is slightly discharging from both batteries instead of charging as we supposed it could/should happens according that formula, and with help of possible advantage that this on/off method could obtain...

So, i was disappointed, but what can i do ?
That formula promised a lot, but it seems it does not work like that in
practice...

Thanks for the test .

Realize that what is proven to be best at one test do not mean it would produce best at other test.

Farmhand desulfator with negative to negative may produce good COP on meter test, but it may produce different result on battery swapping test.

We should not rely only on COP meter test.

I would try everything I know with battery swapping test. Don't assume that the best in COP meter test is the best in battery swapping test. That is wrong. Try everything.


I still working on my timer. But will be ready to test it this months.

Here is what I like to use for test:



I will try circuit of:
your bingo, stingo (bottom diagram), stingo2p (top diagram). I don't try timer based because I had bad result before. If farmhand desulfator is much superior, I would try to use the same MOSFET into stingo or bingo.

The output capturing method:
- single diode negative to positive
- single diode negative to negative
- partial cap isolated FWBR
- optional diode from source negative to load positive
- and the charging-self charging methode showed by Toranarod:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post123946


That is a lot to test. But the result would test me which method is best for battery charging and will see if COP meter is consistent with battery swapping COP.

[nilrehob]

@ sucahyo

I finally had some time & space to do a little testing
On top of my list I had the stingo circuit

Some kind of monster!

I haven't even tried to tweak it,
just picket a spot on each var-resistor and plugged it in;
man, this thing kills everything if your not prepared!



/Hob

[Guruji]

Stingo

How can I use stingo to discharge batteries? Is there a way?

[cikljamas]

Sucahyo, do you think that this concept of selfcharging is promising ?
If so, do you know with what i could replace this hal sensor ?
And do you know the values of these resistors ?
And is this circuit usable without microcontroller since i saw
a long discussion between Toranarod and Caru about source code
and it is in correlation with this circuit, so i am not sure if it is
worth much effort if microcontroller is unevitable part for good
functioning of this circuit ?

I tried today bingo negative - positive mode charging small batteries
and bingo destroyed a few batteries, it seems that there is much
more voltage on the bingos output than on the stingos output...
Before i thought i can not use bingo in negative - positive mode,
but after i discovered i can use it i decided to make test, and i just
told you how it ended up, so do not try charging small batteries with
bingo...

Cheers !