Ongoing "Radiant" Discussion

[Farmhand]

7imix,

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser
No need to use a pic. Seamonkey's circuit will do the job and the frequency and pulse width are easy adjustable. You will need a scope to adjust the pulses and frequency though.
I will measure the core and wire size for you and also the number of turns tonight just to give you an idea. It is much easier if you have a inductance meter, but they don't come cheap.
One of Seamonkey's circuits is so that you can hook it permanently to the battery. It is powered by the battery and will keep it desulfated. It does use some of the battery power. I think it is a good idea to use with a normal solar charger that keeps the batteries charged.

7imix

Can you point me to which circuit you are talking about? I would like to build it.

Here is a similar thing to what seamonkey posted a circuit for (post 21), but it's sold at jaycar,


Battery Refresher - Jaycar Electronics

If we make our own it would be much better than this bought one it doesn't even have a knob

It is good to see they offer something though.

They also sell this stuff-

Lead Acid Battery Conditioner - Jaycar Electronics

There's a PDF on the listing with it. Yuck is it safe?

I'm going to start on the other one tonight, i'm not sure if the little project boards I have will do, i'll start with the breadboard I suppose, i'd rather build the one's I know will work straight on the board they stay on.

Seamonkey,

I've also included a sheet for one of the new high
efficiency transistors which is available from Mouser
for $0.27 each; a tiny surface mount transistor
which is capable of 5.6 Amperes of collector current
with very good current gain - about 100 ~ 250 mA of
base current will take it into deep saturation for a very
low Collector to Emitter Resistance which is nearly
as good as a MOSFET (particularly for low voltage
applications.)

Those transistors look amazing. What is the flow soldering method they use was it? Iv'e got a low wattage iron anyway.

To further reduce the DC resistance of the
inductor wind the 1 mm wire as a bifilar or trifilar
winding and simply connect the wires in parallel.
This will function as a "home made" Litz wired
inductor with very good performance.

There are cases where multiple paralleled wires
will work better than a large solid conductor.

I used four .5mm strands on my bike wheel coil, one for trigger and three paralleled for the power winding, also three paralleled recovery diodes.

I'll go for just one to start it'll be easy to change.

Thanks for the other links too they're gold.

[boguslaw]

can somebody help me ?

How can I replace functionality of oscillating car relay with an electronic circuit or at least rotating fan ? It has to be the same functionality - relay has a one nicefeature that coil collapse magnetic field at good moment related probably to LC resonance of relay coil and capacitance of battery (even if that one is changing) - so you see it is very well regulated self-oscillation.

[Farmhand]

can somebody help me ?

How can I replace functionality of oscillating car relay with an electronic circuit or at least rotating fan ? It has to be the same functionality - relay has a one nicefeature that coil collapse magnetic field at good moment related probably to LC resonance of relay coil and capacitance of battery (even if that one is changing) - so you see it is very well regulated self-oscillation.

I'm not sure if I can help but I think I know what you mean. The relay oscillator does a good job for what it is. The only thing i can think of to describe what I think you mean is the function of the globe in a SSG circuit or the relay coil in the trigger of SSG. I think they both serve to delay the pulse slightly, though i'm not sure exactly. Or why.

I notice to keep a battery ringing with the solid state oscillators I have, I need to adjust the frequency slightly every now and then.

Here's a battery i'm bringing back now, I noticed with the oscillator on the right, these batteries have a few sweet spots where they raise voltage a lot quicker than if I turn the power up, a bit more power they go down (power up also decreases frequency). It must be resonance. I haven't tried a globe on the trigger of a SS oscillator yet but now that you mention it. Hope someone else has a better answer for you. I have a dual relay setup man is it loud.

These batteries were sitting for over 6 months i've had them for about a week. Looks promising.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...-B3.png?psid=1
Cheers.

[Farmhand]

boguslaw, I would suggest to try this very simple circuit of John Bedini's-
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/..._ss.gif?psid=1
If you simply place a 12v-14v 2watt light bulb or a 5 volt relay or similar in series with the 2k resistor on the transistor base, it might work the same as the SSG equivilent. I use a 5k pot and 1k resistor rather than a 2k resistor just add the globe or relay there as well. Adjusting the pot varies the frequency as described in the post above. It's been a good simple circuit for me. Here's a shot of its form.



Thats on the 1/10 ATT setting while connected to a good battery.

The one I made operates between 1.5 Khz - 25 Khz .

Edit.
I forgot to mention that I have used a quite small coil with this circuit, 0.5mm strands aprox. 30 to 40 feet, 2 ohms per strand, not twisted wound flat next to each other, This is the coil that works up to 25 Khz with as little as 100- 200 Ma, but will also handle 600- 700 Ma at 2 or 3 Khz. The efficiency drops though pushing too much current into small wire.

I think with this circuit if the value of all the resistors is raised by 1 or 2k it could work ok on as little as 30-50 Ma probably even less.

I'm currently trying a much bigger coil, the one in the pic, it's 4 strands 95 feet 0.7mm 2 ohms per strand as well ,twisted , but it's max frequency is much less 3.5Khz("edit." I made a mistake here sorry max frequency is actually 12 Khz with new coil at 148 Ma). A little more powerfull, I think I might cut it in half.

I have noticed that these circuits do slave to the battery to a degree.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

The Inductor is the "workhorse" of the desulfator. It must have
a very low DC resistance (less than 0.2 Ohms - smaller is better)
and an inductance of from 100 to 500 microHenries. The inductor
can be hand made by winding heavy wire onto virtually any
magnetic core material (ferrite/powdered iron toroids, ferrite
rod, silicon steel "I" laminate bundle from an old transformer,
etc.) or it can be purchased. Any inductor with a current rating
of at least 2 Amperes will suffice.

OK I finally got the inductor core off it's original board, 42mm x 8mm it appears to be a solid metallic, anyway i'm stumped as to if i should wrap the core with something in particular first. Some tape from a transformer ? Hmmm

Ahah I think i'll paint it with spray on air dry polyester insulation (red stuff), that should be okay.

[Farmhand]

Allright I've wound the inductor, aproximately 78 turns three layers, I cant find out anything on a cmos 4001 or 4011 chip, I can't get to town either for a while now.
Is there another type I can use for now I can access ,uc3845 u48w, A3121 0447, or UEMR0444, or where could i possibly find one, what kind of appliance, computer power supply UPS or something?
Now i'm frustrated I was hoping to get it this week, but maybe not. I'll keep looking it's hard to read the numbers on some. I'm also having trouble understanding that kind of drawing, how many pins on the chip? 14?
My batteries are going well, one is good enough to hold at 12.5v now with 1 amp load. Slow process but it sure does work.
Hmm

After looking through a few datasheets I think now I understand the drawing. Maybe this DBL494 Chip thingy will do. It has 16 pins.

[SeaMonkey]

Allright I've wound the inductor, aproximately 78 turns three layers, I cant find out anything on a cmos 4001 or 4011 chip, I can't get to town either for a while now.
...

After looking through a few datasheets I think now I understand the drawing. Maybe this DBL494 Chip thingy will do. It has 16 pins.

See attached datasheet for 4001 and 4011 chips.

There are a number of different chips which may
be used as the pulse generator.

This Page has a good variety of circuit diagrams
which offer many interesting possibilities.

[Farmhand]

Thank you, I should have plenty to fill my spare time now. It's kinda neat when one can start using one repaired battery to repair another. Circulating that Sol energy as much as I can. It's powerfull stuff.

I'll try to borrow a meter with inductance measurement to see how my inductor feels. I can see with that info I won't have many more questions Hopefully.

Thanks again.

[SeaMonkey]

The attached diagram shows how the CMOS
Pulse Generator circuits (quad NOR and quad
NAND gates) may be modified by addition of
a switch to turn pulses ON and OFF as desired.

When switched to the OFF position the MOSFET
Gate Drive output is locked at 0 Volts to assure
that the MOSFET is held in the off condition until
the switch is later switched to the ON position.

[Farmhand]

The attached diagram shows how the CMOS
Pulse Generator circuits (quad NOR and quad
NAND gates) may be modified by addition of
a switch to turn pulses ON and OFF as desired.

When switched to the OFF position the MOSFET
Gate Drive output is locked at 0 Volts to assure
that the MOSFET is held in the off condition until
the switch is later switched to the ON position.

Awsome, just in time for me to incorperate that into my build.
Thanks again.

Seamonkey, I was confused for a second, I didn't know which thread I was in so i'll post this here too.

For those reviving old batteries with a radiant spike device , I noticed that if there is any trace of electrolyte on the top of the battery it conducts the radiant puses outside the battery from one terminal to the other, I was measuring 9 volts on the plastic case inches from the terminal, both probes at once. So what I did was washed the battery with soapy water and rag then scrubbed it a bit with baking soda in solution, problem solved now no voltage reading outside of the battery. I think it making problems for the restoration of that battery.

Cheers

[boguslaw]

The attached diagram shows how the CMOS
Pulse Generator circuits (quad NOR and quad
NAND gates) may be modified by addition of
a switch to turn pulses ON and OFF as desired.

When switched to the OFF position the MOSFET
Gate Drive output is locked at 0 Volts to assure
that the MOSFET is held in the off condition until
the switch is later switched to the ON position.

I have used in the past a similar circuit (attached schematic) but lately I've got a scope and measured output of this circuit. Seems that frequency is around 110Hz but the output is strange being not 50% duty cycle and depending only on capacitor value.Can you explain why output behaviour is so strange ?

[SeaMonkey]

For those reviving old batteries with a radiant spike device , I noticed that if there is any trace of electrolyte on the top of the battery it conducts the radiant puses outside the battery from one terminal to the other, I was measuring 9 volts on the plastic case inches from the terminal, both probes at once. So what I did was washed the battery with soapy water and rag then scrubbed it a bit with baking soda in solution, problem solved now no voltage reading outside of the battery. I think it making problems for the restoration of that battery.

Cheers

Ah yes! A very good observation and
suggestion. It is the "little things" such
as this which can go un-noticed until we
learn by experience.

[SeaMonkey]

I have used in the past a similar circuit (attached schematic) but lately I've got a scope and measured output of this circuit. Seems that frequency is around 110Hz but the output is strange being not 50% duty cycle and depending only on capacitor value.Can you explain why output behaviour is so strange ?

In this pulse generator circuit the pulse
symmetry is purposely made "lopsided"
so that the Pulse Width can be adjusted
to best suit the needs of the device being
driven.

In your schematic diagram (a good one by the
way) the pulse characteristics are determined
by the values of R2 (220K) and R3 (100k).
The 1N4148 diode in series with R2 is to
assure that the two resistors each individually
determine the length of each half-cycle of
the output waveform.

In your case the output frequency is relatively
low (110 Hz) and the Pulse Width applied to the
Gate of the switching MOSFET has been tailored
to be effective (not too short or too long) in
driving the primary winding of the Ignition Coil to
produce the high voltage output at the secondary.

By making R2 and R3 variable resistors you would
be able to adjust the symmetry of the waveshape
(pulse width or length) and its frequency for different
applications.

When driving an inductive "load" such as a coil or
a transformer it is necessary to be able to adjust
the "ON" time of the switching transistor to avoid
wasteful saturation (pulse length too long) or
less than maximum radiant output (pulse length
too short). This kind of pulse generator circuit
provides complete control over the Pulse Width
and the Pulse Frequency with two resistors and
one capacitor (R2, R3 and C1 in your circuit diagram).

By adjustment of the resistors it is possible to
attain an output waveform with perfect symmetry
where each half cycle is equal length, if that is
desired.

[Farmhand]

Hi Seamonkey I was wondering if i could ask you a few questions.

In the drawings you posted back in post #21 the first one with the pulse generator part. I don't have 100k and 10 k pots, but i do have 50k and 5k can I use these either two each or better still use a fixed resistor and a pot on each like a 5k fixed and a 5k variable and such?

If I do that what frequency and PW range would I be restricted to ? Or is it impossible to tell because of variables ?

Also I have for the PNP a MJL21193 or a MJ2955 I suppose either will do ?

And for the output diode I have some new 1n5408 diodes that seem to be much better quality than the last one's I got thicker leads and all, So that will have to do there.

Everything else I got, I think the main thing of concern is the 10k and 100k pots. It's a long way to town I keep forgetting them, I remember you said they can be replaced with fixed one's after tuning if necessary, to box it up that would be good.

Regards

Oh and the other thing I was going to ask .

When the energy in the inductor is discharged through the mosfet to the negative, can I isolate that instead ? And use it further perhaps ? Not important I just thought I would make connections on the board and adjust the layout if needed. I suppose to do that could affect the operation of the circuit.

[Farmhand]

Well, almost done much easier than I first thought, as far as mosfets go I have a IRFBC30, a 36N03, and a IRFPG50 to choose from looks like the 36N03 has the lowest ON resistance, high current 30v the other two are high voltage one's, i'll try the little one

Should I test the pulse generator part before connecting the fet or connect the fet but not the Source Drain on the fet and test with no power to switch?

Thats about where i'm at or will be very soon.