Charge conserving Capacitive Spring.

[SilverToGold]

Hi Martin,

I have not built any mechanical capacitive generator but may do so in the very distant future. The reason for this is that I have crunched the numbers and looked at these systems from a simple energy point of view and the "solid state" system involving plasma offer great advantage over the mechanical systems. The plasma system is like an "inverse space" system compared to the mechanical one, by that I mean this:

Mechanical System :

You PUT energy into the system --> the plates move further apart, the capacitance goes down, the voltage of the system rises, the energy of the system goes UP.

You REMOVE energy from the system --> the plates move closer together, the capacitance goes up, the voltage of the system lowers, the energy of the system goes DOWN.

The Plasma System :

You REMOVE energy into the system --> the "plates move" further apart, the capacitance goes down, the voltage of the system rises, the energy of the system goes UP.

You PUT energy into the system --> the "plates move" closer together, the capacitance goes up, the voltage of the system lowers, the energy of the system goes DOWN.

Think about that. Do the math, look at the numbers. Prove to yourself what I say is true. This is "anomalous" behavior if you think about it.

With Plasma, you take energy out and the energy rises. How does this comply with so called thermodynamics? This system is a physical inverse to the mechanical system.

Do you realize the significance of this? Do the math and you end up with something quite special.

As far as Hawkings and all the relativist modern physical theory is concerned, it's all smoke and mirrors. I really suggest reading William Lyne as he does a great job tearing their lies apart.

The "Copenhagen" Interpretation of quantum mechanics does NOT support that we influence the world through our minds as so many people mis-interpret it. It only states that we must DETECT energy (ie, light, through sensors) and that detected energy changes the outcome of these very small atomic level observations. For example you flash a "photon" at an atom to see where it's at, by that act you have changed the location and state of that atom so that now it is in a different location and different state than when you make that reading. This is very different from what you are implying or how so many woo-woo new agers mistake quantum mechanics.

In the end, these mechanistic views of the world proposed by the modern world deals with dead matter and you don't get the type of things you are referring to with this dead matter.

[nueview]

i do not think we are as far apart as you make it sound as to neutral particles by your statement it apears you see these particles as very active.
by deffinition neutral is at a mid point balanced between to states of being.
so i percieve neutral particles as a politition in a room full of activists looking to get reelected as a neutral particle he needs to make every state happy in order to get the most votes.
this is a poor analogy i am sure but it does seem to fit my view of how neutral is very active to the influencing states of field actions.

i am sure the math proves that there is a difference between an energy free moving and a powered system each with its own return the plasma tube i would admitt controls any feedback much more efficiently than a mechanical system so i would call it the next generation but for symplicity and overall observation of the free state of an energy the mechanical will give a better demonstration.

i am not sure about being in agreement with the energy up and down maybe change is more appropriate.
Martin

[nueview]

i got cut short the other day a job at the shop came up and needed the work.

i would agree we exist in a very active energy system feild motion seems to be able to account for matter as being a true non entity but the very fluidity of these fields make them hard to deal with.

have you ever heard a electric thump in a circuit?

what happens when electric fields collide?

what is friction as an energy responce?

what is the difference between electric charge flow and electric charge pressure?

how does it react in a electric system?

if as tesla and others stated that the pressure moves faster than the charge then how do you capture a pressure wave in its passing?

answer these questions and you will have energy in abundance because it is already here it just needs to be controled to do work.
Martin

[SilverToGold]

Hi Martin,

Sounds a lot like you're talking Walter Russell, whos work I admire but honestly haven't really fully understood yet.

The energy does change (moves up and down for the closed cap loop system) as the capacitance changes if we assume the charge remains constant, at least according to the equation .5*C*V^2 for the capacitors.

Good questions you post to ponder upon as we work on these systems.

i am not sure about being in agreement with the energy up and down maybe change is more appropriate.
Martin

[nueview]

i love this as you make me put things down that i have worked hard to learn but are not spelled out in books.

i agree with the formula it is fine but what is happening with the charge that is captured on the one plate of the capacitor and the area of the two plates is decreased the voltage rises why?

remember this is a duel system both halves want to balance and it gets complicated fast the normal charge state about the earth is about 20pf i think that was what Tesla figured the charge state at and runs about .05 volt on average and is not going anywhere as it is well insulated by the vacuum of space. this can be distorted by elevation of mountains and the conductivity of these structures and by other space bodies like the sun and moon and other planets but this is not necessary for right now we would just need three plates in a vacuum. i mentioned all the above because there is no place without some field potential anywhere even at the center of a sphere.

lets just do this in open air and use it as our insulator it will be good enough for demonstration we will have two horizontal plates one over the other and one vertical plate on a plastic rod.
as there is a distance between the two horizontal plates there will be some small field potential difference between the two and we will start making use of it by touching the vertical plate to one then the other horizontal plate this will be like connecting voltages that are out of phase due to casimir effect between the horizontal plates. so some charge will be displaced at a distance on the vertical plate we will then move it's difference to the other plant raising the displacement.
the next step is to slide the plates just a bit decreasing the meshed area and again at the unmatched area of the plates we touch the vertical plate to the bottom and then top plate we do this for a period of time and then begin to re-mesh the plates all the time the potential is rising from were was it derived space time good answer but that is just one explanation.

this is the basic precept of all induction machines.
but has it altered the state of any of the matter in some way chemically?
has it altered spin speeds of electrons?
some work was done to achieve this state and can be retrieved?
i think the work done is more than will be retrieved in our example.
but could it?
i do not know and the magnetics being added is a whole new setup again.
was potential state lost in our example to outside matter at a distance? yes discharge the plates and wait a little while and discharge them again it will return home.
what and were and how is the magnetic state arrived at?
this process i have done for the grandchildren many times and they are always amazed as am i.
Martin

[nueview]

in one of the other threads on parametric oscillations there was a paper posted for MIT results and it appeared to follow much of what i have found.

but i think there is so much more here than just the math shows i have asked some questions and it appears there are enough people reading this thread or at least following it that i would think there would be some responce to some of the questions.

here is one that should get someone thinking.

what is the difference between a spark in a glass tube and an arc in open air?

Martin

[Web000x]

what is the difference between a spark in a glass tube and an arc in open air?

Martin

There is going to be a lower electrifying force emanating (or being drawn in?) from the spark in a glass tube because of dielectric constant of the glass material being a higher value than that of air?

This guess is based off of Q=VC.

I like guessing games..

Dave

[nueview]

i read about this a few times once from tesla and once from walter russel it said that v^2 does not apply to arcs within tubes as the dielectric does not allow all the field potential to collapse. v^2 only applies to open air arcs.

if you put a glass tube through a static field of a van degraff machine the spark is much more intense as the field excelleration is greater as it no longer is just removing the surface charge but rather the entire field.

i am sure that the insulation of the connecting wires also plays some part as well at the connections of the tube. air really is a very good conductor after all.

good responce!
Martin

[nueview]

this will be a bit off topic for this thread but it is something that has bothered me for a long time and has made a certain amount of sense at the same time.
it became clear to me with a statement in a paper by Walter Russel he was discussing carbon fiber tubules. i am going to try to make sense of this in a round about way in the end there will still be some questions left for which i do not yet have answers but here goes.

what is back EMF and is the term correct should the term be counter MMF?
Martin

[Web000x]

i read about this a few times once from tesla and once from walter russel it said that v^2 does not apply to arcs within tubes as the dielectric does not allow all the field potential to collapse. v^2 only applies to open air arcs.

if you put a glass tube through a static field of a van degraff machine the spark is much more intense as the field excelleration is greater as it no longer is just removing the surface charge but rather the entire field.

i am sure that the insulation of the connecting wires also plays some part as well at the connections of the tube. air really is a very good conductor after all.

good responce!
Martin

I am not sure if I understand exactly what you are saying.

Are you talking about the arc being enclosed by a tube of glass?
OR
Are you saying that the glass is being placed between the spark gap as to act as a direct dielectric material?

Also, what mathematical representation are you referring to when you say "v^2"? Please elaborate on this.

On the Van de Graaff generator where you put a glass tube in the static field, are you talking about a situation like this that goes according to the following?

o===o

Where it is metal sphere-glass tube-metal sphere.

Thanks,

Dave

[nueview]

yes the tube between the spheres this is because the field pressure drives the charge through the field as it collapses and feilds that a neutralizing allow fast charge transfer than charges moving into other fileds either of the same charge or opposite.
i am rather dense and often heard this and read it in science papers either e=mv2 or e=mv and it confused me then i was reading walter russel and he was talking about some guy who came up with nuclear fussion and how they used the neutron as the collider and it all made sense in a moment.
just something good to know as the situation alters the math.
Martin

[nueview]

i had allot of setbacks yesterday but it was still a good day all in all i am wondering is there some magic that occurs when static and magnetic fields go into some harmonic oscillation as Keely suggested.

i looked at the thread on the comet Elenin and so many things are just screaming at me in my mind. little things i would be told i am nuts for if i even mentioned them. i work on several different projects but some things came together yesterday.

i have long known that the there are unique situations that electrostatics generate and that Tesla was well aware of these effects beyond what is normally taught or even demonstrated.

so many things came together all at once Tesla Keely the kapanadze, the romerouk, don smith, Walter Russell, David Hudson, and schauberger.

i had gotten my hands on some very fine uA meters and for the first time i saw charge move between field motions though it was very small there was also the magnetic reaction as well this has been evading me for a long time.

it makes sense that the E field moves in the vacuum but does the magnetic because i see it influence matter does not mean it is not derived in the matter by the E field and that the efield cannot be compressed or expanded many others put the e field at velocities of some 288,000 miles per second or better.

field action speeds up fields and can also slow field velocities and reverse field action phase and vectoring become the prime importance.especially for volumes matter has an internal tension which reacts differently to the e-field looking to react with it.
slow the e-field and magnetic compresses transversely maybe not the best explanation magnetic fields grow stronger as the distance between pole get shorter e-fields get stronger as the field increases gaining volume these are kind of counter reactions and can account for what don smith refers to as a form of phase shift.

this can occur when an efield reacts with another bit of matter that has an amount of charge to displace generating a counter field at a distance.

i really hope i am wrong about this!
Martin

[nueview]

wow guess that went to far.
i do not think free energy will happen if these type of discussions fail!
martin

[Web000x]

wow guess that went to far.
i do not think free energy will happen if these type of discussions fail!
martin

Martin,

To be honest with you, some of what you post is not easily interpreted by myself. I understand that you have spent a lot of your life building and investigating physical phenomena. On the contrary, I have not.

The way that you post is somewhat unstructured and one must be "fluent" in the language of natural phenomena to really understand a lot of what you say. I personally need things spelled out like in a text book since I don't have a lot of first hand experience.

It is not that I am not interested in having deep theoretical discussions, but I have much catching up to do.

With the little time that I have available, I have been reading the Dollard prescribed material on electric theory as well as doing some experimentation.

If there is one thing I have going for me right now, it is the fact that Eric Dollard has spelled almost everything out for us on where the "Free Energy" is going to come from. After reading his published material, I have found multiple scholarly papers suggesting the importance of parameter variation in electrical apparatus that all corroborate Eric's claims. I am going to stand on the shoulders of a giant and see if I can produce a COP>1 system.

I'm waiting on some magnetite to come in the mail so I can craft an Alexanderson type magamp core for my initial inductance variation experiments. I hope to contribute to some healthy discussion soon.



Dave

[Dave45]

what is back EMF and is the term correct should the term be counter MMF?
Martin

counter magnetic field