PM flux manipulation

[rave154]

Hi all,

have a look at the attatched for a possible way of using a small amount of input power to control the flux of a larger NEO magnet in order to change the flux in the secondary using "cross flux gating"

basically energising coils A & B, would block the flux from the NEO due to the flux from the coils being at 90 degress ( and we all know flux lines cant cross each other ), this would/should result in a no flux condition in the secondary.

when the coils are turned off, the flux from the NEO is free to return "through" the secondary.

Not sure is this design is new or anything, just occured to me so i thought id jot it down and throw it out here.

Thanks

David. D

[citfta]

Hi rave, I have a question if you don't mind. I try to help on this forum when I can but I am also trying to learn. You said "We all know flux lines can't cross each other." I am curious where you got that info as I don't remember ever seeing that anywhere. Can you point me to some references that would explain that? From my experience I am not sure I agree with that, but my observations could be wrong. Thanks for any insight you can give me.

Carroll

[Ecoman11]

Hi all,

have a look at the attatched for a possible way of using a small amount of input power to control the flux of a larger NEO magnet in order to change the flux in the secondary using "cross flux gating"

basically energising coils A & B, would block the flux from the NEO due to the flux from the coils being at 90 degress ( and we all know flux lines cant cross each other ), this would/should result in a no flux condition in the secondary.

when the coils are turned off, the flux from the NEO is free to return "through" the secondary.

Not sure is this design is new or anything, just occured to me so i thought id jot it down and throw it out here.

Thanks

David. D

It's totally possible and I have a working prototype in the video below. You'll hear the coil pulsing itself however not to deceive anyone, there is more to it then just the coil.

YouTube - Self Pulsing Coil

[rave154]

Cifta,

cant remember where i saw it ( looked at a lot of things )

but A) ive never seen a flux simulation with flux crossing each other....or B) any other representation of flux where the lines cross.
anybody out there with more knowledge than myself that can verify that flu lines cannot cross other flux lines?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi rave, thanks for sharing this idea. I'm not exactly sure what polarities you intend for each coil face which are in contact with core to be. Though if both coil faces on one end of core were of like polarity, say both north poles facing in toward core at south pole permanent magnet end, then that would divert the magnets flux in through the coils, which would be a form of blocking, to block flux from secondary coil. Only question is, how efficient would this be. It does seem different though to anything I've seen. Most of these blocking or diverting flux transformers have a coil directly in the main flux path, whereas yours is not. Are you planning to test this, or anyone.
peace love light
Tyson

[Allcanadian]

@citfa

Hi rave, I have a question if you don't mind. I try to help on this forum when I can but I am also trying to learn. You said "We all know flux lines can't cross each other." I am curious where you got that info as I don't remember ever seeing that anywhere. Can you point me to some references that would explain that? From my experience I am not sure I agree with that, but my observations could be wrong. Thanks for any insight you can give me.

There is a very good reason why flux lines cannot cross and it is mainly because the lines of flux do not exist, it is a common myth perpetuated by most textbooks. Consider than a magnetic field will polarize iron and that the nearest part of the iron to the magnetic north pole will be polarized with a magnetic south pole. This is called induced magnetism and is the reason iron is attracted to the magnet or moreso the iron is not attracted to the magnet but the induced magnetism in the iron has caused an attractive force.
If you place two pieces of iron in front of a magnetic north pole then both pieces closest to the north pole of the magnet will have an induced south pole, the iron pieces will be attracted to the magnets north pole and repelled from each others south poles as they are both south poles and must repel. Now when we sprinkle iron filings around a magnet all the filings are induced by the magnets magnetic field, parallel filings will repel because they have like poles and filings near vertical to one another will attract thus we see lines not due to the magnetic field itself but the induced magnetic forces of attraction and repulsion between the filings themselves, lol. It was all just a silly mistake, in reality the magnetic field is a magnetic field gradient which is more like a fine cloud of changing magnetic density getting stronger and denser as we approach the magnetic poles. Once we get the facts correct it is easy to see that a cloud like gradient cannot cross another anymore than the pressure gradient of water in a lake could cross as each individual "depth" in the lake has it's own pressure. To say part of a magnetic field gradient could cross another is like saying water at one depth or pressure in a lake could cross water at another depth or pressure, it makes no sense. If you image a magnetic field gradient as a polarizing "pressure" which is denser near the poles and less dense further from the poles then I am sure everything will make much more sense.
Regards
AC

[Ecoman11]

What happens in a permanent magnet and solenoid is two different effects (depending if you're pulsing the coil). The permanent magnet is a steady state field (while rotating) so the lines are fixed. When a solenoid is powered it expands outward forming a dipole while when the power is cut off it will contract back to it's zero point.

Imagine it this way in water. You have two ripples side by side; one ripple is fixed constantly creating ripples outwards (permanent magnet), the other ripple is expanding outward, then contracting back at whatever frequency (pulsing coil). Try to picture this ripple playing in forward then in reverse. What you'll have is a diffusion zone between the two ripples (interacting crossing lines but never in a steady state).

If you work with this concept you might figure out how to build and position coils on a toroid to direct the flux.

Ecoman

[citfta]

That makes sense

Hi AC, Thanks for your explanation. That does make sense. I have worked in electronics a long time, but only after retiring have I had time to start looking at alternative ideas about energy and the possibility of doing things differently. I can try to help people understand conventional circuits but I am still learning about new ways of looking at things.

Thanks, Carroll

[rave154]

Skywatcher,

i dont think its important what polarity the "blocking coils" have(though it may be)..whats important is that their flux field is at 90-degrees to the PM flux field..hence blocking it ( much like a T-junction on a road )

yes, i intend to try and test, might make a molded core out of resin & Fe304 ( though ive heard that Fe304 doesnt have too high a permiability?).

if not a molded core then i might try and get some ferrite bars from ebay

[Stefan]

virtually air gap

Dear frends

Read cearfuly this patents and think aubut permanent magnets!

DEVICE WITH CONTROLLABLE IMPEDANCE
WO03044612

Magnetically controlled inductive device
US2006152324

VARIABLE INDUCTIVE DEVICE
WO2005119711

You finde them her
esp@cenet Avancerad sökning

[rave154]

Stefan, thanks for the links, just had a look through them

Eco, in your video..what exactly was going on? was it powered? and by what?

Thanks

[Ecoman11]

Stefan, thanks for the links, just had a look through them

Eco, in your video..what exactly was going on? was it powered? and by what?

Thanks

@rave154 That video shows one of my vibreedo coil designs and is being powered with 12v. The white noise can be explained in my vibreedo coil thread. In relation to this thread you can hear there is about .25 sec intervals which is being cause by a copper spring wire wrapped around the main core. What I believe is happening is the smaller cores of the spring wire are blocking or stealing the flux path of the main core causing it to pulse.

I'll be posting more info as I test different designs to confirm the effect.

Ecoman