This is it !

[Farmhand]

Still awake here, when i go to town next week i'm going to buy a toriod transformer a big one if I can afford it, if I can't afford anything big enough i'm going to make one.

I tried the other two fets I have in my new desufator and they work much differently to the one i'm using original 36N03, the charge trace is angled on the others especially the pg50 and much less power use with pg50 also much bigger spike of the top, the bc30 is similar to the pg50, I wish I had a good scope to compare them.

Anyway sleep time
Cheers

[sucahyo]

Hi guys !
I just came by to say hallo, and to tell you what i am doing just
right now...Well, i spent a lot of time last few days messing around
with Sucahyos stingo and tonight i made my first little joule thief...

If you intend to replicate joule thief. try jeanna version too. Unfortunately I don't have the link for that. try to pm jeanna.

[cikljamas]

If you intend to replicate joule thief. try jeanna version too. Unfortunately I don't have the link for that. try to pm jeanna.

Well, i just replicated it thanks to your last post in the thread "stingo solid
state..."...In this video i reply to your comments from the same post, so
you have to see it...Now i go to stingo thread to write something more on
that matter...
Here is link of my video :
YouTube - Joule thief vs stingo

[Farmhand]

Ok i'm looking at some Toroidal Transformers here- Wiltronics - Toroidal Transformers

Which one would be the best out of the 500VA ones the 25v+25v the 30v+30v or the 50v+50v ?

I wonder how they are wound low voltage "secondary" on the core first or the higher voltage "primary" on the core first?

Interesting. any suggestions ?

Cheers

[gmeast]

references

some references:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian..._materials.pdf
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian... materials.pdf

[gmeast]

toroid

Ok i'm looking at some Toroidal Transformers here- Wiltronics - Toroidal Transformers

Which one would be the best out of the 500VA ones the 25v+25v the 30v+30v or the 50v+50v ?

I wonder how they are wound low voltage "secondary" on the core first or the higher voltage "primary" on the core first?

Interesting. any suggestions ?

Cheers

I was going to take the same route with a commercial toroid. The one I was going to use was this one from MOUSER:

VPT100-10000 (Transformers 100.0V CT @ 10.0A 50V @ 20.0A Parallel).

That puppy would cost $169 and I would not know the core material, wire, resistance, etc. until I received it ................ $169 later and still not know the core material.

From Hydrogen Garage, they show theirs ... (Micrometals 650-66) with wire and "U-Wind" for $190.... but you know it's the 'target' materials (core & wire). So what do you do? I'll look at the spec sheet on theVPT100-10000 (above) and see if it might even come close to giving me a chance.

Oh well ... spec sheet not available ... great! The VTP is from Triad Magnetics. Both Mouser and Digikey carry. Had to call Triad to email the data sheet to me.

Don't know what to say. We're in the same boat.

[crackahcrackah]

From Hydrogen Garage, they show theirs ... (Micrometals 650-66) with wire and "U-Wind" for $190.... but you know it's the 'target' materials (core & wire). So what do you do? I'll look at the spec sheet on theVPT100-10000 (above) and see if it might even come close to giving me a chance.

Oh well ... spec sheet not available ... great! The VTP is from Triad Magnetics. Both Mouser and Digikey carry. Had to call Triad to email the data sheet to me.

Don't know what to say. We're in the same boat.

I probably missed it, or am forgetting, but is there a reason why you can go direct through micrometals?

I got the silver coated copper core wire from a place called "Apex" in california. Wire They may only have stranded coated wire now it looks like :/.

[gmeast]

micrometals

I probably missed it, or am forgetting, but is there a reason why you can go direct through micrometals?

I got the silver coated copper core wire from a place called "Apex" in california. Wire They may only have stranded coated wire now it looks like :/.

Well, I went to their website and tried their 'samples page' and it came up "Temporarily Unavailable", so I dunno.

I'm still working on an analog system to pulse a coil. My super-fast op-amps and logic-level power mosfets will arrive on Thursday.

Not much going on in this thread ... very disappointing. I'm going to forge ahead and pulse something ... maybe my tongue.

HEY cikljamas ... you started this thing! ... Where are you?

[cikljamas]

Well, I went to their website and tried their 'samples page' and it came up "Temporarily Unavailable", so I dunno.

I'm still working on an analog system to pulse a coil. My super-fast op-amps and logic-level power mosfets will arrive on Thursday.

Not much going on in this thread ... very disappointing. I'm going to forge ahead and pulse something ... maybe my tongue.

HEY cikljamas ... you started this thing! ... Where are you?

I am here, do not wary ! Big brother is watching you very closely !
I am just digging Joule thief thread, i found out that this stuff is
of my great present and future interest...I made two little ones and
they just impressed me, and big one also impressed me, so now after
this two little ones that use energy from dead batteries and lit my
little leds, and big one that charge my batteries with highest efficiency
so far, i have to learn how to wind those toroids to get light from
cfls !!! It is now big mistery for me, but i hope i am going to find out
how these things works..

And guess what...This experience is going to help us a lot for our
growing stuff too...

For example, i find this link very, very helpful for JT toroids windings,
maybe you can find something for our projest too in there :

Jule Thief

Thank you Greg for your persistence, i hope it will lead us to our final
goal !

Thanks others too, especially Crackahcrackah !

Cheers !

[gmeast]

updated PWM

I am here, do not wary ! Big brother is watching you very closely !
I am just digging Joule thief thread, i found out that this stuff is
of my great present and future interest .................................................. .................................................. ........................................
And guess what...This experience is going to help us a lot for our
growing stuff too.......
.................................................. .................................................. .........................................
Thank you Greg for your persistence, i hope it will lead us to our final
goal !
.................................................. .......................................
Cheers !

Hi all,

Ok ... just unplugged the old OP-AMP and plugged in the new one with 4 x the slew rate as the old one.

This is the exact same circuit I have been running. What I like is the the on-the-fly-adjustment capability this analog circuit offers. There is virtually NO overhead. I am going to build the 3-winding version, but without the secondary. I will be running the circuit on a 5VDC, low power supply on the same battery, so the PWM will run at only 19mA draw ... or I might just run everything from a 6VDC L/A flooded battery. I will soon be testing this PWM's gate driving abilities on the logic-level MOSFET I also just unpacked. This thing is capable of 1268 Amp peak drain current at Tp <= 10usec pulses! (WT_?) ... I don't think the leads can take that ... need a good heat sink for sure - me thinks. So I will have 3 independent PWMs smacking 3 windings on the toroid (one side common at battery of course).
Here are the pics of it running at 42kHz:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/tlc074c.JPG
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/new_op_amp.jpg

Still undecided on the toroid darn it !

Greg

[crackahcrackah]

Hi all,

Ok ... just unplugged the old OP-AMP and plugged in the new one with 4 x the slew rate as the old one.

This is the exact same circuit I have been running. What I like is the the on-the-fly-adjustment capability this analog circuit offers. There is virtually NO overhead. I am going to build the 3-winding version, but without the secondary. I will be running the circuit on a 5VDC, low power supply on the same battery, so the PWM will run at only 19mA draw ... or I might just run everything from a 6VDC L/A flooded battery. I will soon be testing this PWM's gate driving abilities on the logic-level MOSFET I also just unpacked. This thing is capable of 1268 Amp peak drain current at Tp <= 10usec pulses! (WT_?) ... I don't think the leads can take that ... need a good heat sink for sure - me thinks. So I will have 3 independent PWMs smacking 3 windings on the toroid (one side common at battery of course).
Here are the pics of it running at 42kHz:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/tlc074c.JPG
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/new_op_amp.jpg

Still undecided on the toroid darn it !

Greg

Sounds good. Being able to swap the switch easily really does make for good testing and observation. The sharper your rise/fall times the stronger the effect.

Can you get the rise/fall times down into the nanoseconds or picoseconds range?



Here's the datasheet for a good testing FET I came across (17/27nS on/off):

http://www.vishay.com/docs/91117/91117.pdf

Here's the best rise/fall time I could find on digikey, with 250v rating (not great for big spikes but I think the efficiency difference between this one and the 800v one is such that you can provide a higher cop.). 7/16ns on/off rise/fall speeds. These guys burn out easy if you don't watch it.

http://www.vishay.com/docs/91269/91269.pdf

[gmeast]

Mosfet

Sounds good. Being able to swap the switch easily really does make for good testing and observation. The sharper your rise/fall times the stronger the effect.

Can you get the rise/fall times down into the nanoseconds or picoseconds range?

Here's the datasheet for a good testing FET I came across (17/27nS on/off):
http://www.vishay.com/docs/91117/91117.pdf

Here's the best rise/fall time I could find on digikey, with 250v rating (not great for big spikes but I think the efficiency difference between this one and the 800v one is such that you can provide a higher cop.). 7/16ns on/off rise/fall speeds. These guys burn out easy if you don't watch it.
http://www.vishay.com/docs/91269/91269.pdf

Hey crackahcrackah,

Thanks for the input and reference. My Mosfet is logic level and will likely turn on faster than my Op-amp because if I drive it at 4.5 VDC and it turns on 12 VDC that's kind of like a 3:1 gain. I've now got my turn on/off times to 160nsec.

Here's the MOSFET I'm going to use ... seems pretty rugged. Don't understand the low Vds though??:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/PSMN1R6-30PL.pdf

I realize the Vds is very low, so I am going to make sure that the spike(s) gets to a load, battery ... somewhere. If the Vds is so low for this thing, then why do they publish such good power and dissapation ratings ? ... I dunno, but I'm a gonna give her a try ... or a fry.

Greg

[Farmhand]

Hi Guys, I still haven't made it to town yet, I will order some core's and stuff tonight, will do some serious search and buy, I would like the micrometals 650 if possible, I will make one from iron ring's when I get the chance I dont think annealed mild steel will work, I might have to make one from welding rods , make rings from them and weld the ends together make them different sizes to form an oval cross section toroid, however that would be a (air/iron hybrid) core because of the air gaps.

I will try to oreder a PWM board as well to play with, i've had some success with my first real attemp at using a mosfet, Device is still going strong i'm putting 550 Ma through it 24/7 no probs, virtually no heat either, which is very promising though i think that is a result of the inductor/freqency/pulse width that i'm using.

Anyhow i'll try to buy tonight, so any suggestions before then are welcome.

Cheers

[crackahcrackah]

Hi Guys, I still haven't made it to town yet, I will order some core's and stuff tonight, will do some serious search and buy, I would like the micrometals 650 if possible, I will make one from iron ring's when I get the chance I dont think annealed mild steel will work, I might have to make one from welding rods , make rings from them and weld the ends together make them different sizes to form an oval cross section toroid, however that would be a (air/iron hybrid) core because of the air gaps.

I will try to oreder a PWM board as well to play with, i've had some success with my first real attemp at using a mosfet, Device is still going strong i'm putting 550 Ma through it 24/7 no probs, virtually no heat either, which is very promising though i think that is a result of the inductor/freqency/pulse width that i'm using.

Anyhow i'll try to buy tonight, so any suggestions before then are welcome.

Cheers

If you can get the 650, then great, as that'll make at least 2 of us working with it. It would make replication work a bit easier. Honestly, I wish these were things that we could just DIY, and have a high quality toroidal core, but with out serious research to see if it's even feasible (I doubt it) it's just easier to buy something. I vaguely remember reading something about tesla making his own cores from metal rods or straps. Can't remember where I read it though or any other details . Maybe some one else can share if they know?

Make sure that whatever pwm you get, it has a fast FET driver. You want this thing to be able to turn off and on fully, as fast as possible for the best effects.

If you're looking to save dough, it would just be cheaper to use a spark gap and home made caps as per tesla's specs. This goes for any one. The old way is just cheaper.

[Farmhand]

Hi crackahcrackah and all,

If you can get the 650, then great, as that'll make at least 2 of us working with it. It would make replication work a bit easier. Honestly, I wish these were things that we could just DIY, and have a high quality toroidal core, but with out serious research to see if it's even feasible (I doubt it) it's just easier to buy something. I vaguely remember reading something about tesla making his own cores from metal rods or straps. Can't remember where I read it though or any other details . Maybe some one else can share if they know?

Yes I wish core's were easier to make, last couple of days i've been making some different inductors for my new desulfator, however anything other than the comercial grade core material doesn't work very well at all, steel gets very hot !! Rods or solid must be too slow for the frequency, steel seems to be reasonable at low frequency and power. The comercial grade cores go up over 40 khz seems like no problems and with a reasonable amount of power without getting hot, I think that is significant.

What is the comercial core material used in inductors, the one's I have (just staight one's) look like a metalic material is it iron powder compressed or a composite or what it's not ferrite, well it don't look like ferrite.

Make sure that whatever pwm you get, it has a fast FET driver. You want this thing to be able to turn off and on fully, as fast as possible for the best effects.

I think I can make the whole setup myself though it'll take me a lot longer than most I haven't scoped the driver output of my desufator yet only the radiant output at the diode, it can work at quite high frequency and the pulse width can be tuned down to allow less than 10 Ma total power usage and still producing a radiant output. I was just going to buy one to play with but it doesn't seem they are as plentifull and as cheap as I first thought. I'll have to try to make one when I get a drawing.

If you're looking to save dough, it would just be cheaper to use a spark gap and home made caps as per tesla's specs. This goes for any one. The old way is just cheaper

.

Yes I would like to try that too. I would like to build a toroid converter as per Tesla drawing, I would like to build one about 1ft diameter at least. One day.

Yes soft iron straps made into rings that fit together and insulated from each other somehow, thats what I read in the High frequency document. The core (straps) must be insulated from each other to reduce eddy currents i think, the eddy currents probably produce excess heat and reduce efficiency. I think they can be formed from iron powder in a suitable medium as well, some type of epoxy material or similar with the iron powder mixed into it then moulded or formed.

Sounds like a fun project in itself especially if one learned how to produce high frequency, high efficiency core's cheaply and easily in whatever shape you may desire.

I'll try for 650 core's maybe i'll have to buy a few.

Cheers