This is it !

[Farmhand]

This looks like it could be usefull for future efforts, towards the bottom there is an inductor design software package, i'm getting it now.

http://www.arnoldpowdercores.com/

OK request for two rolls of tape from Loadstone pacific has been made. I asked for the 1P802 tape and I told them to start with I need 60m of 25mm wide tape on a small roll, the entire roll needs to be less than 75mm diameter.

I still don't get the 960mm width thing in the PDF.

[gmeast]

tape

This looks like it could be usefull for future efforts, towards the bottom there is an anductor design software package, i'm getting it now.

http://www.arnoldpowdercores.com/

OK request for two rolls of tape from Loadstone pacific has been made. I asked for the 1P802 tape and I told them to start with I need 60m of 25mm wide tape on a small roll, the entire roll needs to be less than 75mm diameter.

I still don't get the 960mm width thing in the PDF.

Hi Farmhand,

Yeah, that seems confusing. I talked to someone on the phone and said I needed 1P802 x 1inch. Then she said $50 was the minimum. Then I asked for a distributor and she said it's not necessary she'll sample me a role. I didn't even think about the roll size, I just figured I was going to have to re-wind it on my own spool anyway. Good you can get the small spool ... I hope that doesn't translate into a 'big fat lead time' though.

Great news though. I still like your 'wicked' solution of chopping the 2" in half ... kick myself in the head for not thinking of that.

OTHER NEWS!

@7imix ... thanks again, I was able to wire up the gates and test. There was one problem with using my half-frequency output ... the phase was wrong, but I can use the 1:1 and it 'snapped to life'. So the latch-unlatch logic worked perfectly ... one other thing, I guess I forgot to say the output must go active 'low', but I just inverted the output and it's perfect. I'm only running it at about 25KHz right now to check some stabilities. Need a good 50-50 square pulse clock chip. Recommend one you're familiar with? Blog it. For now I'll just jump my 12V 90KHz PWM and chop it down to 4.5V with a divider network.

Tired ... too late to take pictures ... tomorrow. Thanks again 7imix

Later

[7imix]

...

OTHER NEWS!

@7imix ... thanks again, I was able to wire up the gates and test. There was one problem with using my half-frequency output ... the phase was wrong, but I can use the 1:1 and it 'snapped to life'. So the latch-unlatch logic worked perfectly ... one other thing, I guess I forgot to say the output must go active 'low', but I just inverted the output and it's perfect. I'm only running it at about 25KHz right now to check some stabilities. Need a good 50-50 square pulse clock chip. Recommend one you're familiar with? Blog it. For now I'll just jump my 12V 90KHz PWM and chop it down to 4.5V with a divider network.

Tired ... too late to take pictures ... tomorrow. Thanks again 7imix

Later

Awesome man. I have been playing with a variant of farmhand's desulfator circuit as a clock, it is in my "build your own signal generator" book. It is working pretty well.

I tried again to drive the optocoupler. I couldn't get the logic level ics to provide enough voltage to drive it directly, so I added a small MOSFET and it worked perfectly. I am only driving a small toroid though, so I tried without the optocoupler and it works just fine... I am getting 75 volt positive spikes running off a 5 volt supply.

I'm fumbling around with logic circuits, I don't have enough different kinds of logic ics, I keep having to look for them on old junk boards and try to desolder them without destroying them. It's slow going. I'm learning a lot and making good progress though! I'm really starting to be able to design or modify a circuit and have it do what I want. It's nice.

[7imix]

Here's the circuit I was testing tonight. Work in progress.

[Farmhand]

Hey Greg, did you settle on a way to space the primaries yet ? I'm not surprised if you haven't, you must be very busy. I've marked the 120 spaces and 90 degree segments. I just downloaded the protractor here -
http://www.thegsresources.com/files/degree_wheel.pdf

Then I cut some little slots in the correct places for the 120's making sure the diameter was even by marking that too, "see picture" after that I cut some slots for a 90 degree markings with the 45 in between done to to align with the 120 marks. I marked the core through the slots I cut in the paper stencil. So thats one way.

http://kobcsq.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

How many winds are you going to do ? Have you decided ? As many as you can ? Haha

Maybe it would be best if I cut mine into three pieces and measure it and wind one to see what happens then go from there.

What do you think about that ?

We can see how many I can get into 90 degree's and also how many total.

Cheers

[gmeast]

primaries

Hey Greg, .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................
How many winds are you going to do ? Have you decided ? As many as you can ? Haha

Maybe it would be best if I cut mine into three pieces and measure it and wind one to see what happens then go from there.

What do you think about that ?

We can see how many I can get into 90 degree's and also how many total.

Cheers

This part of our effort amounts to 'driving blind'. What I mean is: There is a procedure the 'cell people' use to condition, and characterize their cells so they can impedance-match the primaries to the cell, and thus match the toroid to the cell. We're not doing any of that and besides the secondary we have both worked so hard on never even comes into play at all. So maybe an HG guy will drop a clue or maybe Bob will somehow offer insight on this.

I wonder how much 'loss of coupling' with the core my primaries will suffer because of the huge gap created by the secondary's presence ... huh, huh, huh? (but Tesla often mentions the need for gaps)

The guide and protractor indicate 90deg of primary turns each, and I guess it must amount to only a few turns either way to accomplish the tuning/matching with a cell, so I still don' know right now.

I was going to cut three pieces myself and just wind what's there +90deg-. But then I thought I might have some wire left over for other things like I had with the FAT secondary wire ... no wonder I had so much left over! I'll need some left over for the choke ... and that is still an open page ... how do we rate that thing?

Sorry I am of no help at all on these (issues) right now. Later

[Farmhand]

No probs Greg, I will cut mine in three and wind one on to see what happens i'll also measure one of the three pieces .

My experiments tell me the secondary is important Greg.

In the watkykjy video he leaves the secondary open. The effect of leaving the secondary open is different from when it is closed. When the secondary is shorted it is like there is no secondary, the effect is the same. Especially at low power levels.

It would be impossible to get the same effect as having a secondary there and open without having one, because not having one is like having the secondary shorted.

In my opinion the secondary is vital.

There is a big difference. If watkykjy had been after an effect like he would get if he had no secondary, he would have shorted the secondary, but he didn't. He left it open.

It may just be impossible to get the same effect without it. In my opinion it will be. I have thought right from the first few pages of this thread that the secondary is very important. And I still do.

The thing is, we KNOW it can be done with a secondary there and left open.
But we don't KNOW it can be done without it. If nothing else it was simply not a risk worth taking, in my opinion anyway.

I'm not sure if he left the secondary open in the 1 to 4 video's but he did in the watkykjy 0 video. The one with the wierd waveform.

Cheers

[gmeast]

air gap

No probs Greg, I will cut mine in three and wind one on to see what happens i'll also measure one of the three pieces .

My experiments tell me the secondary is important Greg.

In the watkykjy video he leaves the secondary open. The effect of leaving the secondary open is different from when it is closed. When the secondary is shorted it is like there is no secondary, the effect is the same. Especially at low power levels.

It would be impossible to get the same effect as having a secondary there and open without having one, because not having one is like having the secondary shorted.

In my opinion the secondary is vital.

There is a big difference. If watkykjy had been after an effect like he would get if he had no secondary, he would have shorted the secondary, but he didn't. He left it open.

It may just be impossible to get the same effect without it. In my opinion it will be. I have thought right from the first few pages of this thread that the secondary is very important. And I still do.

The thing is, we KNOW it can be done with a secondary there and left open.
But we don't KNOW it can be done without it. If nothing else it was simply not a risk worth taking, in my opinion anyway.

I'm not sure if he left the secondary open in the 1 to 4 video's but he did in the watkykjy 0 video. The one with the wierd waveform.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand,

I believe the secondary is important to have for replication purposes. And I think it provides a 'gap' that Tesla has referred to (not spark gap) in his writings ... just can't put my finger on any of them.

I'll look at video0 again and see if I can't see anything significant.

Later

[gmeast]

not the same toroid

Hi Farmhand,

I believe the secondary is important to have for replication purposes. And I think it provides a 'gap' that Tesla has referred to (not spark gap) in his writings ... just can't put my finger on any of them.

I'll look at video0 again and see if I can't see anything significant.

Later

Hi Farmhand,

Well I did a side-by-side of video0 and video3. The toroids are not the same ones. They have different colored primaries. I can't really see the secondary leads in video0, but they are white (like mine) in the 1-4 videos. Also, the video0 toroid looks dumpy and fat, like it's got allot of stuff wound on it, while the video 1-4 toroid looks leaner ... not as 'stuffed'.

So, for me, a cloud of doubt has just formed. If I were to trust anything, it would probably be video0 actually. But in video0, I still can't sort out the battery arrangement ... mmmmmm ........... grrrrrrrrr and I would sure like to I.D. the secondary leads ... it's just a poor quality video.

Later

[gmeast]

2 batteries in parallel

Hi Farmhand,

I believe the secondary is important to have for replication purposes. And I think it provides a 'gap' that Tesla has referred to (not spark gap) in his writings ... just can't put my finger on any of them.

I'll look at video0 again and see if I can't see anything significant.

Later

Okay ... a little more clarity ... watkykjy1 writes in the video0 description:

"Just a quick video showing how you can use the hex controller to recharge the battery that it runs from. In this video I have two 12V batteris in parallel being charged."

... copied from his YouTube channel. Now I'll go back and see if I can tell anything more.

That video here ... vieo0:
YouTube - OU Charging effect of the hex controller

Later

[gmeast]

think I found them

Okay ... a little more clarity ... watkykjy1 writes in the video0 description:

"Just a quick video showing how you can use the hex controller to recharge the battery that it runs from. In this video I have two 12V batteris in parallel being charged."

... copied from his YouTube channel. Now I'll go back and see if I can tell anything more.

That video here ... vieo0:
YouTube - OU Charging effect of the hex controller

Later

I think I found the secondary leads. At about 8:30 o'clock, there are two fat, black wires coming out. Boy ... none of the leads coming out of his toroid exit according to how Bob says they should. This definitely is NOT the same toroid as in videos1-4.

Later

[gmeast]

first peek

Hi everyone,

Okay ... this is the first peek at the output of the pulse module (guess that's what I'm calling it).

This is a digital PWM. At present it's operating from a slow clock running at only 429KHz. The clock pulse generator is actually one of my Op-Amp PWMs generating a 50% Duty Cycle square wave. The output you see is from the Logic Gate Circuit posted earlier in the thread.

It's not bad at all for go #1. This I will use to trigger my MOSFET gate driver chip. As you can see, in this test, my pulse frequency is 27KHz and my Pulse Width is 1.5usec.

My target is a Pulse Width of 0.5usec at a Pulse Frequency of 75KHz ... and fully Variable Frequency and Pulse With ... as it is right now but at the target numbers. This should allow me to strike the same target range as the Hex Controller.

Not to say too much lest I end up with egg on my face if I can't actually pull it off, but these Pulse Modules cascade to drive pulses onto a multi-phase system ... just like the toroids we're winding and just like the Hex Controller, but without the microprocessor and programming.

The scope capture is here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...ng/CBPWM01.PNG

Enjoy. Later

[Farmhand]

Hi greg, yes his leads are coming out different to what Bob specifies. Bit rough.

2.52 mins into this video he shows the secondary leads.
YouTube - Battery charging with the hex controller (2 of 4)

We already have ours on, so it makes no difference to us, but I thought it important to anyone who go's this way and may decide the secondary is not needed. Maybe it isn't but after the results I got in my experiments comparing secondary shorted, open and none. I would say "no" secondary is like a shorted secondary and that is much different from an open secondary.

And besides with no secondary it would be just a battery charger and thats it. No option for useing power from the secondary. I would never have even done it without a secondary. Too expensive for just a battery charger in my opinion.

I really like the sound of how the PWM is coming along. Sounds like we are well on the way to getting what we need. Awesome.


Here's an interesting video, looks like someone found Stans stuff in a storage area. There are some interesting looking objects in the video.
YouTube - Craig Westbrook finds Stan Meyers estate 2010.

interesting.

Cheers

[gmeast]

battery charger

Hi greg, yes his leads are coming out different to what Bob specifies. Bit rough.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
And besides with no secondary it would be just a battery charger and thats it. No option for useing power from the secondary. I would never have even done it without a secondary. Too expensive for just a battery charger in my opinion.

Oh my goodness! But it's a 'Self-Charger' ... that's NOT just ANY battery charger.

I really like the sound of how the PWM is coming along. Sounds like we are well on the way to getting what we need. Awesome.

Thanks ... but I can't tell you how much work is left yet to do. Now I only know how to control the pulser-part of the beast, but sewing it all together into the multi-phase pulser we want (with the options and flexibility) is still ahead. I'm going to try and keep this thing under 0.5Watts of power ... that's a goal too.

Cheers

Since I posted my news about the PWM progress, I went ahead and juiced up the clock to 620KHz and can tune to very close to one of Bob's 'magic numbers'. I ran at 41KHz and 0.95usec pulse width.

You know, checking back on some of the input from people in this thread ... most of them gone now ... they would inject "you need to be around 0.3% Duty Cycle and around 2.5usec pulse width" ... and off the cuff advice like that. Well just do the math ... at our frequencies of up to, and possibly more than, 42KHz, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

42KHz is a pulse period of 2.38 x 10^-5 seconds! ... and 0.3% of that is 0.003 x 2.38 x 10^-5 = 7.14 x 10^-8 ... and a pulse width of 7.14 x 10^-8 seconds is likely not to happen with the technology at OUR disposal. For my last ran ... 41KHz and 0.95usec pulse width ... that's about a 4% duty cycle ... very, very far from 0.3%!

So you just can't go by those numbers people throw around like they really know ... but it's appreciated just the same SO THANKS because it forces you to verify things by DOING THE MATH (closet math teacher).

[EDIT] On the power ... it's sitting right around 59mA ... includes the clock, and that's on a linear Voltage Regulator .. later to become a 'switcher' ... more efficient.

Have a nice. Later

[Farmhand]

G'day Greg, Yeah a self charger is a lot more than just a charger, and i don't want to play down the importance of a battery charger. Good battery charger is invaluable. I was just meaning it can do even more than that. Other good things. Like power stuff. Not sure what but if there's some extra stuff comin out we can always find something to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand
Hi greg, yes his leads are coming out different to what Bob specifies. Bit rough.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
And besides with no secondary it would be just a battery charger and thats it. No option for useing power from the secondary. I would never have even done it without a secondary. Too expensive for just a battery charger in my opinion.

Oh my goodness! But it's a 'Self-Charger' ... that's NOT just ANY battery charger.

Yes I agree with what you're saying here below too. It's unrealistic to think
the duty can be kept the same at higher frequencies. I think we should just
get as quick as is practical for the desired frequencies. It's all that can be
done. We do need to use some power. It won't hurt we'll get it back.
Maybe.

Anyway i'm really happy with the way things are progressing. Have a
break if you can tear you're self away. It's difficult to stop I know. Especially
with circuits, very addictive.

You know, checking back on some of the input from people in this
thread ... most of them gone now ... they would inject "you need to be
around 0.3% Duty Cycle and around 2.5usec pulse width" ... and off the cuff
advice like that. Well just do the math ... at our frequencies of up to, and
possibly more than, 42KHz, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

42KHz is a pulse period of 2.38 x 10^-5 seconds! ... and 0.3% of that is 0.003 x 2.38 x 10^-5 = 7.14 x 10^-8 ... and a pulse width of 7.14 x 10^-8 seconds is likely not to happen with the technology at OUR disposal. For my last ran ... 41KHz and 0.95usec pulse width ... that's about a 4% duty cycle ... very, very far from 0.3%!

So you just can't go by those numbers people throw around like they really know ... but it's appreciated just the same SO THANKS because it forces you to verify things by DOING THE MATH (closet math teacher).

I was thinking in some circumstances ( maybe not for self charging ) we
could power the Toroid with 110 or 220 volts from an inverter of our own
making (efficient) but still power the circuit from the 12v battery regulated to
whatever you decide we need for it.

Higher voltage into the Toroid with very quick switching would make for a
very potent setup. The output wire is thick (secondary) and three phase
switched input 220 volts. The current draw should be much the same
reletively. Maybe a bit more or less.

The possibilities are hair raising to think about. The recovery behavior when
the seconday is loaded in different ways with a setup like that would tell an
interesting story. Could be a lot of fun ! The higher voltage into the toroid
would make the recovery very potent high voltage spikes.

Would be interesting to experiment with. We should be carefull of a shock I
guess.

We have the Diodes to handle the voltage and frequency/speed and the
IRF540 can take some volts. I'm gunna do it but only after we reach our
original goal. I'm with you on that. 100%.

Ok so I cut my primary wire, it was 10.3 or so meters x 3 lengths. I'll try to
wind one segment tonight. All up it appears I had 100 feet or 31 meters
about.

Cheers