This is it !

[sucahyo]

Hi sucahyo,

Yes, I recall that an example is 10.?kHz, 21.?kHz, 42.?kHz or so was used. In the D9.pdf is goes further to say something like "... the frequency depends upon the characteristics of your cell ...", etc., and was using one of the example for calculation purposes beginning with the Toroid's secondary and primary turns ratios and so forth ... it's quite comprehensive.

I have no idea if any of THAT is pertinent to the self-charging task, but the battery has got water in it even though we're not trying to electrolyze it ... or are we ? ooooohhhhh

Later

Have you try it yet? Maybe with one of resonant frequency you found? If double is hard, a half?

[gmeast]

frequencies

Have you try it yet? Maybe with one of resonant frequency you found? If double is hard, a half?

Hi sucahyo,

I have tried those frequencies in 3-phase mode, but not multiple frequencies at the same time. It can get complicated. With a micro it is much easier to do, but with the PPC I see one way of doing it and that is to have Two Phase Channels thumping one FET and then also a Single Phase Channel. So now with this you could pulse the 'double phase' FET twice as often as the 'single phase' FET. To continue on with this scheme for all three phase coils would require the third coil and its FET/Driver to share four (4) phase channels ... now that's six (6) phase channels. But as I said, they're cheap and just plug onto the counter's data bus and only consume about 20 milliwatts (@ 5VDC) each. These then are 'synched' too unlike the 3GPWMs that aren't (I don't think).

Later

[sucahyo]

Hi sucahyo,

I have tried those frequencies in 3-phase mode, but not multiple frequencies at the same time. It can get complicated. With a micro it is much easier to do, but with the PPC I see one way of doing it and that is to have Two Phase Channels thumping one FET and then also a Single Phase Channel. So now with this you could pulse the 'double phase' FET twice as often as the 'single phase' FET. To continue on with this scheme for all three phase coils would require the third coil and its FET/Driver to share four (4) phase channels ... now that's six (6) phase channels. But as I said, they're cheap and just plug onto the counter's data bus and only consume about 20 milliwatts (@ 5VDC) each. These then are 'synched' too unlike the 3GPWMs that aren't (I don't think).

Later

I hope you can apply it. Good luck.

I am thinking of single timer with a logic state that change state on every two pulse. But still never think the logic yet.

[gmeast]

self-charging

Hi all,

I have just received some very helpful and critical information from Bob. He advised me that batteries have a self-discharge rate. Now, the bigger the battery, the higher the self-discharge. I don't have any exact figures but I'm sure there are several factors that can also influence this characteristic.

When it comes to the 'Holy Grail' of COP>1 proof, which is what I consider the W videos to be, Bob also made it clear that it's also the most difficult form of battery charging to achieve. The reason for this is that super-critical conditions must be met in order to be able to charge the same battery that you are using to run the system, mostly because of the 'recovery' choke. This choke simply limits the amount of current that the available LE can provide. This being the case, it is very possible that 'too large' of a battery can have a self-discharge rate greater than the the self-charging rate. To achieve greater charging performance, you use a 'run' battery' and a 'charge battery' and the recovery choke can be eliminated along with its attributable charging losses.

This arrangement is well familiar to everyone here. It's also the arrangement that I have been avoiding like the 'Plague' because it introduces the element of doubt and uncertainty caused by the 'indirectness' of a second battery. From my interactions with many Doubting Thomas-types of people, this is actually a major point of contention when it comes to trying to convince folks of the stark reality AND validity of COP>1 technologies.

All of that said, I will use a much smaller flooded lead-acid battery for my testing and continue on with the one-battery approach with the optimism that lower battery self-discharging losses may 'put me over the top'. If I can't achieve self-charging that way after applying the relevant hardware and configuration refinements Bob has suggested, I will move to a 2-battery configuration and forge ahead.

I'm hoping I can soon replace the FET/Driver combo I recently vaporized so I can restore full 3-Phase operation and testing. I'm also replacing the the 1N5408 'recovery' diodes with MUR410's as specified by Bob. Those diodes are the only power-related components I failed to use in my replication ... it could make a difference as so many other types of variables can in dealing with this sort of research.

Later

[ashtweth]

Thanks also to Bob

[gmeast]

Bob

Thanks also to Bob

Hi Ash ... absolutely ... thanks to Bob.

[sucahyo]

I think recovery diode play important role too. Better spec do not always mean better performance on radiant circuit. I don't even sure how we measure performance lol. Nice to get suggestion from Bob .

[gmeast]

update

Hi fine people (and all others),

Well it's been a while ... my FET & Driver replacement/backup components are enroute as well as the MUR410 (recover?) diodes to replace the 1N5408s. I will also get (eventually) a couple of new 3AHr - 6AHr lead-acid batteries for the continued testing of the 1-battery configuration (in the event the 'big' battery I'm using has self-discharge losses exceeding the self-charging power) and also to transition to a 2-battery "swap" configuration if I exhaust my options and efforts with the 1-battery configuration ... WHAT I STILL CONSIDER TO BE THE 'HOLY GRAIL' OF ACHIEVEMENT.

Later

[FRC]

gmeast

This may sound stupid. Instead of a battery, some kind of motor/generator
setup with caps. This should work if the circuit is indeed OU. Would need the correct specifications of motor/generator to match your circuit. Just a crazy
thought.

FRC

[gmeast]

diriect work

This may sound stupid. Instead of a battery, some kind of motor/generator
setup with caps. This should work if the circuit is indeed OU. Would need the correct specifications of motor/generator to match your circuit. Just a crazy
thought.

FRC

Hi FRC,

...not crazy at all! Tesla's poly-phase converter work took the output and put it directly to use doing work such as lighting. Now I'm not sure if putting it to use doing work on an inductive load would be so good, but a resistive load ... heat and/or light ... might make a good test. Throughout this effort, I am trying to make as my a goal, the most direct used of the OU power. Charging the battery you are running on is such a use and charging another battery (that has been drained by a measurable load), then 'swapping' and repeating is next best, but indirect enough to pose 'PROOF' problems. It's amazing how many people are 'Math Cripples' .... a term my high school chemistry teach often used and that is permanently branded in my brain.

On an aside, Bob had gotten back to me, but my Yahoo email account had been placing his comms in the spam bucket and I never got his responses because I POP my mail to a local computer. I need to go online more often to check my spam folder(s). He recently provided some useful tidbits in response to a private movie I made for him showing my progress and setup. Apparently he wants me to try and shorten the signal leads from my PPC controller to the FET board as much as practical to evade/avoid any time/inductive influences on the gate signals. I guess a suitable location would be atop the FET board above the Toroid's hole.

Thanks for your reply,

Greg

[gmeast]

resuming

Hi all,

I'm back up and running with three new MUR410 recovery? diodes installed. I am getting better, higher recovery voltage measured with diodes disconnected from the battery ... telling me that they are responding quicker than the 1N5408 diodes ... duh ... 410s are "Ultra-Fast" ... 5408s are "General Purpose"

I had only fried the UCCxxxx222 Driver on one channel as it turns out. Those IRF540Z FETs are pretty rugged I think.

However, even with the new diodes I am not seeing self-charging in the 1-battery configuration (THE HOLY GRAIL). The next step before abandoning this configuration will be to address the recovery? choke. I am making it 'tunable' by making a 'Rotary Tap' on the chokes turns.

Here is a picture of the wires being 'bared' where the Tap will make contact:

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...uner_choke.JPG

Later

[7imix]

Great! I'm working on getting a job so I can self-fund my experiments, and then I hope to get back to replicating this.

[gmeast]

another 'non-progress' report

Hi again,

Well ... the only thing I've been able to verify is the resonant frequency of my T650-52 core at around 1.03MHz, or maybe it's just the oscillations adding up to a nice sine wave-looking waveform at 1.03MHz.

My adjustable choke seems to be a bust in that as I 'decrease' the number of turns by turning the rotary tap, it begins using more power. Now you could infer from that observation that I may not be filtering enough of the noisy crap out of the mix and I may indeed need MORE turns on my choke. Okay ... I have another T157-52 core for that ... just no smaller Ga. wire of the Teflon-coated, Silver-plated, solid copper wire type for the job.

Anyone want to donate some of that stuff to me? I'd really appreciate it. 22Ga ... I guess the same I used for the 3 primary windings on my T650 Toroid.

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, how are ya ? Did you get my email ? I sent you one because I had an idea. You might want to check you're spam box.

Also I think the choke turns number will need to be adjusted for the power level and frequency you use. The choke should limit the input power a bit. If I run my setup with the choke in place then remove it (using a second battery for testing) when I remove it and connect the recovery to the second battery "chokeless" the input current is more, so the choke is holding the BEMF in the system causing a pressure build which keeps the flux in the transformer at maximum or (idle state) very low current draw.

If you decide the frequency and power level you want, then adjust the number of turns on the choke till the current draw is just slightly less with the choke than without it when charging a second battery. Then try to self-charge.

There is another possibility for the way the battery voltage went up in the video's.
The voltage of a sulfated battery can sometimes rise when loaded for a while as more current starts to flow the battery "opens up" more and as more current flows from it easier the voltage go's back up while under load. It is worth considering that the battery that wacky was using could have been sulfated and exibiting that behavior. I had one battery from a quadbike that did just that and it did it reliably and dramatically. It is a possiblity if the battery was not new.

Cheers

[gmeast]

charging

Hi Greg, how are ya ? Did you get my email ? I sent you one because I had an idea. You might want to check you're spam box.

Also I think the choke turns number will need to be adjusted for the power level and frequency you use. The choke should limit the input power a bit. If I run my setup with the choke in place then remove it (using a second battery for testing) when I remove it and connect the recovery to the second battery "chokeless" the input current is more, so the choke is holding the BEMF in the system causing a pressure build which keeps the flux in the transformer at maximum or (idle state) very low current draw.

If you decide the frequency and power level you want, then adjust the number of turns on the choke till the current draw is just slightly less with the choke than without it when charging a second battery. Then try to self-charge.

There is another possibility for the way the battery voltage went up in the video's.
The voltage of a sulfated battery can sometimes rise when loaded for a while as more current starts to flow the battery "opens up" more and as more current flows from it easier the voltage go's back up while under load. It is worth considering that the battery that wacky was using could have been sulfated and exibiting that behavior. I had one battery from a quadbike that did just that and it did it reliably and dramatically. It is a possiblity if the battery was not new.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand,

I'm fine. I'm starting to think we did NOT see a real self-charging effect in the Wacky vids. I still can't put my finger on it, and the parts of the demo where he switches the Toroid 'on' then 'off' is pretty convincing though ... in that the circuit draws the battery down by itself and then when the Toroid is switched in, the battery voltage climbs.

I'd like to know how Wacky was able to connect his DVM to the battery during charging. Bob told me to NOT connect ANYTHING 'electronic' to the battery being charged ... either single- or dual-battery configurations.

My choke is adjustable now. Do you think I should just arbitrarily choose a frequency ... say 41KHz, mess with the phase angles a little and then tune the choke for min/max?

I really expected to see some 'trends' showing up in my tests, but there seems to be no correlation in any relationships beyond the conventional.

I want to get two new motor cycle batteries for this testing, but I can't afford that right now.

Bob wants me to shorten the signal leads from my PPC because there might be inductive interference on them ... but they exit the vicinity of the Toroid radially, so how could there be inductive interference? I'm sure he knows more than me about this.

Though I don't know specifically what they would be, I can imagine a good number of subtle conditions that might effectively KILL the LE in a system like this.

I had asked Bob in a private email recently if I should retain the B+ choke in the dual-battery configuration. I have not heard back ... maybe I should check my on-line spam folders ... an on-going irritant, those folders.

Later