This is it !

[gmeast]

So, it should be better for charging purposes then stingo for example in
your opinion ? How much better results do you expect of this project
comparing it let say again with stingo for example or with Bedini SSG ?
I dont know what kind of core do you mean we should have use for
our toroid, but i think (as Sucahyo) that this issue is of big importance...
I just have written something about that in Godfrey thread "Stingo solid
state battery charger", so if you want to read about it here is copy of that
text :

Rgds!

Hi cikljamas,

Well, this effort looks like it is going to be a "pure" project. I mean, we are setting out to do one thing. We will pulse a coil with the 'steepest & shortest' pulse of energy possible to try and get the source battery to take a charge from the field collapse via a diode and much like the video you opened this thread with, except with a simple, basic PWM circuit, unlike the Boyce Hex Box, plus a more basic coil ... preferably a toroid.

I know I am not going to add much, if anything, beyond that ... no wild ideas and crazy theories. We will change frequencies, pulse widths, voltages and maybe try different coils, but that's it as far as I see this project.

... But YOU started this thread ... what do you want to do?

I think just a Ferrite Toroid core will show us something once we have our PWM and Power components decided on.

I know NOTHING about the Stingo Circuit. I know I don't care for the SSG or any system that uses a Source Battery and a Charge Battery with 'Swapping'. This is too subject to confusion and like Aaron said (something to the effect) '... no one's figured out yet how to measure a battery's capacity or condition ... ' (sorry Aaron if you didn't imply this, but I'm was sure you did).

We won't have much of a choice in core materials if we use what we can find. I don't know what's best. There are so many self-proclaimed 'experts' regarding materials it makes me sick. It seems like no one really knows anything.

*******So let's go out and at least find out about pulsing a coil. If the circuits don't do the job, then we'll use a spark gap********.

Greg

[cikljamas]

Hi cikljamas,

... via a diode and much like the video you opened this thread with, except with a simple, basic PWM circuit, unlike the Boyce Hex Box, plus a more basic coil ... preferably a toroid.

Hi, Gmeast,
OK, you said "except with a simple, basic PWM circuit", that is acceptable,
but i am not sure is it going to be necessary to pay a little bit more
attention to composite of toroid since my experiences with stingo allowed
me to notice that with ferrite cores performances of stingo are much worse
than with dusty iron ones...If we recall Sucahyos warns about importance
of composite of Bob Boyce toroid that even has to be of some very
special material, than i think that we should from the beginning try to
obtain at least minimum appropriate core instead of ferrite one...Because otherwise it could lead us to wrong conclusion that if we were not content with results of our first tests of our stuffs for example we could think that circuit is no good instead of wrong core that we use...That is why i think that we should accomplish at least that "core" condition to diminish extent of confusion in our first steps of our project to the reasonable degree...But maybe i am wrong, maybe ferrite core could be
good enough, who knows...

*******So let's go out and at least find out about pulsing a coil. If the circuits don't do the job, then we'll use a spark gap********.

Greg

So, let s go...Did you make pulsator since your components arrived few
days ago, i am anxious to hear your first impressions about it ?
I did that circuit a week ago but i postponed experiments with it till
i hear a little bit more from others...My first impressions was not good,
but i believe that it is consequence of doing something wrong...So i
am ready to go forward, just need a little bit more informations from
you who understand that circuit better than me...

Rgds !

[sucahyo]

*******So let's go out and at least find out about pulsing a coil. If the circuits don't do the job, then we'll use a spark gap********.

Do you know a way to capture energy from a spark gap?

[7imix]

My intuition is that the core material affects the frequency. The higher the frequency, the more energy.

As far as capturing the energy from a spark gap, I'm guessing the only purpose of the spark gap is to get sharp rise time, short pulse duration, and sharp fall time. The energy is recovered by sending these impulses into a quarter wave resonant coil. Then we have tesla's one-wire or wireless transmission. To draw power off this we can use an av plug, or we can develop devices like lights and motors that run directly off high voltage, high frequency, low amperage, like tesla did.

Just my opinions

[gmeast]

Hi, Gmeast,
.................................................. .....................
.................................................. .....................
If we recall Sucahyos warns about importance
of composite of Bob Boyce toroid that even has to be of some very
special material, than i think that we should from the beginning try to
obtain at least minimum appropriate core instead of ferrite one...Because otherwise it could lead us to wrong conclusion that if we were not content with results of our first tests of our stuffs ..... who knows...
..................................

Rgds !

OK. Where do we get dusty iron cores or Boyce special material composite? What about good old silicon-iron insulated wire wrapped in a tight toroid? I think iron toroid cores like this were Tesla-type (don't know about the silicon-iron part, but soft, pure iron wire). I saw that in chapter XXIII of download from here, or was that something else? There's also Met-Glass or Vitrified Metal ... very premium stuff. Bearden used that, but the MEG doesn't work anyway ... or does it?

Greg

[gmeast]

My intuition is that the core material affects the frequency. The higher the frequency, the more energy.

Just my opinions

I would like to begin with just one 'constant' and stick with that 'constant'. It should be something that everyone can get. Probably the constant should be that toroidal core. Ok then, let's concentrate on sourcing the material, or a completed core ... something that everyone can end up with in our hot little hands.

That's the starting point then, and I'll build my 2060 circuit. Someone here said that PCB board affects the performance and that it's better to direct-wire the parts together... no proto board, yes - no?

Greg

[7imix]

I would like to begin with just one 'constant' and stick with that 'constant'. It should be something that everyone can get. Probably the constant should be that toroidal core. Ok then, let's concentrate on sourcing the material, or a completed core ... something that everyone can end up with in our hot little hands.

That's the starting point then, and I'll build my 2060 circuit. Someone here said that PCB board affects the performance and that it's better to direct-wire the parts together... no proto board, yes - no?

Greg

Ok. I think the core material and the length of the winding is going to affect the frequency we need to pulse it with, so if we all had the same toroid that would help.

A pcb would add unpredictable stray capacitance and resistance to the circuit. Keeping the traces on the board very short might be ok. Not using a pcb may be more important in a circuit like stingo where all the components together create the resonant action. In a circuit like we are discussing in this thread, there is a frequency generator part and the toroid which is being pulsed by a mosfet triggered by the frequency generator part, so the parts may be more isolated and it may be ok to have the frequency generator part on a pcb. Maybe an optocoupler would help to isolate the parts further? Maybe the parts should be powered by different batteries?

Just thinking out loud...

[crackahcrackah]

I would like to begin with just one 'constant' and stick with that 'constant'. It should be something that everyone can get. Probably the constant should be that toroidal core. Ok then, let's concentrate on sourcing the material, or a completed core ... something that everyone can end up with in our hot little hands.

That's the starting point then, and I'll build my 2060 circuit. Someone here said that PCB board affects the performance and that it's better to direct-wire the parts together... no proto board, yes - no?

Greg

Sorry I haven't posted my old posts yet. I haven't had a chance to retrieve them.

That toroid can be found at micrometals. model # T650-66. You will need to do a sample request as they appear to be annoyed by small orders. I got 2, have one all wound as per Boyce's instructions, the 2nd only has the 2ndary on it. You're looking at ~$75 bucks for a sample of 2. You might want one of the 1" powdered toroids for part of the circuit. I'll try to get what I did put into schematics. It really is an improvised tesla patent, but I couldn't get an air core to work with out melting fets. The 1" core let me recreate the "load" portion of the circuit with out melting fets.

I used a modified boyce pwm3G to handle the switching. I also used silver coated copper wire for the primary and secondary windings. High precision can be had with the microcontrollers, so that one can carefully examine the influence of dV/dT on the inductive spikes. Whenever I can get my cripple body in order I'll pursue a spark gap based set up.

[crackahcrackah]

Ok. I think the core material and the length of the winding is going to affect the frequency we need to pulse it with, so if we all had the same toroid that would help.

A pcb would add unpredictable stray capacitance and resistance to the circuit. Keeping the traces on the board very short might be ok. Not using a pcb may be more important in a circuit like stingo where all the components together create the resonant action. In a circuit like we are discussing in this thread, there is a frequency generator part and the toroid which is being pulsed by a mosfet triggered by the frequency generator part, so the parts may be more isolated and it may be ok to have the frequency generator part on a pcb. Maybe an optocoupler would help to isolate the parts further? Maybe the parts should be powered by different batteries?

Just thinking out loud...

The length of winding is critical. Unfortunately every little aspect of the circuit has an impact on efficiency. If you set things up with resonance in mind then you will have the best results, but this requires laying every thing out before actually building. My setup was not done with resonance in mind as that detail requires more effort than I could put in at the time. If you guys can stick close to what Tesla did you'll have superior results, no doubt about it. I haven't seen any one on any forums heavily focused on this circuit so I'm excited to see the attention to it.

[gmeast]

T650-66

The length of winding is critical. Unfortunately every little aspect of the circuit has an impact on efficiency. If you set things up with resonance in mind then you will have the best results, but this requires laying every thing out before actually building. My setup was not done with resonance in mind as that detail requires more effort than I could put in at the time. If you guys can stick close to what Tesla did you'll have superior results, no doubt about it. I haven't seen any one on any forums heavily focused on this circuit so I'm excited to see the attention to it.

just visited Micrometals. the sample request email and page is "Temporarily Unavailable" .... of course. Maybe because it's Saturday ... that must be it ... yeah ... that's it.

Well, I'll build my circuit today and see where my interests go from there.

Greg

[gmeast]

watkykjy

Does anyone know for sure if watkykjy phased the pulsing of the coils in the opening video or did he pulse them simultaneously?

He showed us some lines of (his) program code, but that was for only one output channel.

Please NO speculation. If you actually know then please reply.

Thanks,

Greg

[cikljamas]

Well, i spent a great part of this day to stingo measurements, and now
i am going to spend a few hours to our impulser that has been waiting
for me last 7 or so days on my proto board...It means that in a few
hours i will come back to tell you my new impressions as well as to
put some questions to Greg who is maybe in the same time discovering
the secrets of our working selfcharging project that Watkykjy already had
done in his working way but for some mysterious reasons even in this thread
he came by just to say hello and goodby in the same time living us to ourself!
But we do not give up just like that...So Watkykjy thaks anyway if you came
by here to see these words one of this days !

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I'm a bit layed up at the moment, i've injured my neck again wrestling with my Billy Goat (big male goat) sometime he's an angry soul . Anyway so with my layup time i'm gonna have a mess about manually popping some charge back to a battery from a cap, I will use very low input and charge the cap to double the battery voltage or a bit more, then shut off the oscillator and manually pop the charge into the source battery a few times to see if I can make it's voltage rise (at all) this will be in no way definitive of this projects viability, just thought I might get some flash of universal knowledge while i'm doing it and thinking about it at the same time. I'll try a few different things if I can.

I'll keep some notes and post the results later. Thats if my neck don't get any worse, I hate taking painkillers they make me fuzzy, hard to concentrate.

I think i'll be ok if I take it easy again. No more billy goat wrestling this week.

I cant lean over to solder so well when my neck is out or much work around the place. But I have to do something or I will get bored.

I'll post my findings later. It might help a bit.

Cheers all

[Farmhand]

OK so After a very short experiment with a simple Bedini SS oscillator I can see that there does seem to be more potential energy in the capacitors (3 470 uf in paralell) than what was taken from the battery. I couldn't raise or lower the voltage though the battery voltage did seem to go up a small bit .01v when I half automated the process.

A couple of observations I think may be in someway relevent-

1. I think if the timing was correct that it would be possible to make a battery charge itself somewhat, to a degree at least and with a real usable charge.

2. When I look at a normal coil it is actually a toroid, it just has the wire wrapped around the ring instead of through it, if that makes sense. The wire is the toroid.

3. Some type of shielding around the coil could be benificial.

I kind of agree with you crackahcrackah there may be more to be gleaned from Tesla's work.

It seems to me i'm still missing something. I can't help but to think that a soft iron core handmade from iron rod into different size rings that fit together to make a oval cross section toroidal core like the shape of Tesla's in the drawing ( hard to explain without a drawing ) same way a Bedini core is made but a toroid with an oval or rectangle cross section. Would be good ?

Lot of work but could yeild better results, it could also be made big enough to wind the thing without going nuts or getting arthritis.

I may not be able to get a commecial core so if I can make the impulse circuit and it works for me (no guarantee's), it may be worth while if I replicate your circuit Greg but use a custom core. No guarantee I can be successful at the core making either.

I would love to have the time and patients to replicate Tesla's Converter and power it with a driven generator (wind) to get real normal power. Ahh pipe dreams.

Cheers all

Edit. I also can't help but think that this in part leads back to lessons learned from the Tesla Switch. Its all about moving the right amount of potential the right way at the right time. If the fluff charge can be skimmed off to create pulses strong enough to bump the battery up. We would be using usually unuseable potential and transforming it to something more usable. Just posting my immediate thoughts here. I havn't thought too deeply on that bit yet.

[cikljamas]

I tested that 7imix combine impulsator-stingo, burned out a few npns,
noticed some basic rules about this circuit behavior but i do not feel
i am able to give very clever comments on it...
Instead of giving advices i would like to ask 7imix this : What kind of
coil did you use playing with this wild impulsator-stingo horse ?
When i connect little toroid that i usually use with stingos, input
current raise up like a wild mustang in rodeo show (over 1 A) jihaaaa...
Without coil it works well, for example i put cooler from power supply
as a load between npn collector and pnp collector(in fact i use FWBR),
and input mAmps were 120, and output mAps were 100, then i tried
to load cooler directly from the battery, and in that case cooler pulls
out 150 mAps from the battery...So, i just described a few noticed
things from my playing with this circuit combine...I doubt it can help
anyone anyhow, but i am just showing my presence in this sweet
efforts "to be better catholic than pope himself" as one croatian byword
says...Greg, what s up with your impulsator ?
Farmhand, beware of wild goats ! But maybe you should beware of
tamed ones too ! And thanks for your observations !

Rgds!