This is it !

[gmeast]

cap-inductor-pulse charge (CIP-Charge)

.................................................. .......................................
What happens when you discharge a cap into a coil? Does it dampen out, slow-charge the coil as the cap peters out? Is there a recoil or collapse at the end of the coil 'charge cycle? ... keeping in mind we do NOT want to approach saturation. Greg

Well I asked myself that same crazy question ... see.

Here's what happens when you discharge a Capacitor into an Inductor:

Perhaps this is another way to crack open the local field and have a drink for free.

I conducted an experiment on a hunch. I took a capacitor and charged it. Then I dumped it into an inductor. There is a 'first' large negative-going oscillation that is captured by a diode and charges a second capacitor.

Here's the set-up:
First the test circuit here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...st_circuit.jpg
on the left side is the common or ground. connected to the 'common' are V-, scope probe gnd, one end of the inductor and one side of three capacitors. The upper orange cap is the cap that gets charged up and dumped to the inductor. The yellow cap is the cap that gets charged through the 1N4001 diode. The red alligator clip is connected to the post (bent cap lead) and the other end of the alligator clip's wire is momentarily switched to V+ to charge the orange cap and then switched to the inductor to complete the cycle. The lower orange cap is a control. It's used as a reference to compare the differences in the waveforms between the upper charge circuit and the raw cap to inductor circuit with no second cap & diode.

The waveform for a straight up cap discharge into an inductor here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...o_inductor.jpg
scale's on the picture at 3V x 1ms.

The waveform of the yellow cap being charged by the 'first' negative-going oscillation here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...tor_to_cap.jpg

Probe load can be a problem when measuring small energies like I was. With both scope probes on the orange and yellow caps, the signal gets strangle pretty bad. But I wanted to post them both. First the hook-up and then the waveform:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...two_probes.jpg
and now the probe loaded waveform here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...probe_load.jpg

An indirect way around this was to try and get a look at how the charging cap voltage tracks the inductor's oscillation ... hopefully with a parallel track at a diode-drop distance ... and it does. The waveform shows this here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...diode_drop.jpg
The waveforms are indeed separated by the 'measured' 0.514V drop of the 1N4001.

So now we know it tracks the oscillation perfectly so we can use this in our energy calculation without having a probe on the charging cap (yellow) to distort the results.

You can see the entire set-up here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...lse/set_up.jpg
The inductor is the primary of a 24VAC step-down transformer. It measures 10.2 Ohms. The secondary and center tap are left open.

Switching was manual and I simply had a tinned wire that I switched back and forth between V+ (red clip) and the other end of the inductor (chrome clip). An image of that is here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...harge_dump.jpg

Here' the shocker: The cap that smacks the inductor is 0.047uF and the cap that gets charged from the inductor's oscillation is 1.0uF. See them here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...pulse/caps.jpg

So how much energy is coming from the 0.047uF 'dump' cap (orange) into the inductor, and how much energy is being harvested from the local field by the inductor to charge the charging cap (yellow)?

1/2 CV^2 = joules:C = capacitance, V = voltage, joules = ...well, "joules"

looking at:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...tor_to_cap.jpg

in the 'dump' cap we see 10.5 VDC.
(10.5^2 / 2) x .047 / 1000000 = 2.590875 x 10^(-6) joules

in the charge cap we see (-)2.9VDC.
2.9 - .514 (don't forget the diode drop!) = 2.386
(2.386^2 / 2) x 1.0 / 1000000 = 2.846498 x 10^(-6) joules

WHAT ? ... OUTPUT TO INPUT RATIO = ?
2.846498 / 2.59087 = 1.0986 ... ALMOST 110% ... COP = 1.1

Well this isn't far off. This is an interesting experiment to say the least. Next time I'll tie all outputs to OP Amp Buffers to side step the probe load problem.

set-up for just the cap to inductor reference here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...p_inductor.jpg

for the first (raw) waveform above again here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...o_inductor.jpg

Probably need a separate thread for this,

Greg

[7imix]

Well I asked myself that same crazy question ... see.

Here's what happens when you discharge a Capacitor into an Inductor:

Thanks. Very interesting. Oscillating currents. Yeah, you should start a thread to explore this...

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, That is a most interesting result thats for sure, I wish I had a scope that showed me pictures like that, one day i'll get the one that 7imix recommends or one like it.

Any way that is very comprehensive. In fact I have no trouble believing your result is accurite. So my question is this where does the energy come into the circuit ? Everywhere I suppose. It seems a well wound toroid or even a square transformer core will do as long as it is a loop ? that looks like a fairly heavy transformer you used. And still a 1.1 cop NICE !! Promising result.

I just last night watched the only energy from the vacuum video I have it's the first one, it's a very informative video, Tom Bearden explains things very well, he talks about the MEG it is a very sophistocated device, he talks about the density of the signals in the core which makes it very difficult to tune properly, but I think he knows exactly what he is talking about. It is well worth watching. I think the meg would be a high tech version of what we are doing, but for power production and self running.

[sigzidfit]

Is this the circuit?

Yeah, thats pretty much it. The best results I've had are with the transformer connected to the positive on the battery, the motor connected to the negative on the battery and the switch between the transformer and the motor.

Positive - transformer - switch - motor - negative.

If you do replicate, take a look at what happens between the machine and a ground. Other things too....you'll see. It's the most baffling thing. Try your electrolysis, AV plugs and single wire experiments too...can be quite impressive. I've thrown pretty much everything I can think of at that thing. Careful though. Keep one hand in your pocket while its running. If you touch it with both hands it might bite you. And I've killed a few diodes too.

Peace
PJ

[gmeast]

transformer

Hi Greg, That is a most interesting result thats for sure, I wish I had a scope that showed me pictures like that, one day i'll get the one that 7imix recommends or one like it.

Any way that is very comprehensive. In fact I have no trouble believing your result is accurite. So my question is this where does the energy come into the circuit ? Everywhere I suppose. It seems a well wound toroid or even a square transformer core will do as long as it is a loop ? that looks like a fairly heavy transformer you used. And still a 1.1 cop NICE !! Promising result.

I just last night watched the only energy from the vacuum video I have it's the first one, it's a very informative video, Tom Bearden explains things very well, he talks about the MEG it is a very sophistocated device, he talks about the density of the signals in the core which makes it very difficult to tune properly, but I think he knows exactly what he is talking about. It is well worth watching. I think the meg would be a high tech version of what we are doing, but for power production and self running.

Thanks Farmhand,

I studied the MEG for a while. It's based on Floyd Sweet's TVA (Triode Vacuum Amplifier). In a Bearden/Bedini interview with Sweet, Sweet is cryptic and almost incoherent at times ... definitely NOT answering Bearden's and Bedini's questions.

Anyway, I think that if I use capacitors based on more current materials I will get better results than with junkyard parts. The inductor has got to be a major player and the coil I used must be 25 years old. One thing to note, this transformer has space between the windings and layers of windings ... an I heard this is important to NOT have a highly dense inductor according to Tesla (or maybe I'm thinking of something else). Image of that here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...old_tranny.jpg

Boy, that 1N40001 diode is a rugged sucker. When I was first testing this thing (before I cleaned it up a little) I was using a 914 Signal diode. Once in a while I would accidentally 'tick' the V+ to the inductor by accident. I toasted several 914's ... no 914 ever survived that 'clumsy mistake'.

Thanks again,

Greg

[crackahcrackah]

I bet it would explode Which is a sign of success!

If neon bulb I use for load exploded, It wouldn't be any fun, but it would be a nice sign that stonger bulbs can be used . That's certainly the right direction.

[crackahcrackah]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but it looks to me that both the LUTEC machine and the ORBO device may be based on this principal, I am not qualified to say, and I don't really know exactly how the two devices work, it just seems that way, the lutec device from what i can tell uses the 1+1=3 formula, (eg. take one event add it to a second event and get a third event that is greater than the first two combined).

Of course I could be wrong but I think these things could be all related somehow, well one thing is for sure they are all controversial.

crackahcrackah, In the Tesla document it says the coils B,B and B',B' are connected in series, and C,C and C',C' can be connected however is needed.
Hope I got that right finally.

So my question is if I make one one day just like in the Tesla document, for a generator transformer/converter setup, is it good enough to just weigh the wire before winding it and wind it very carefully in exactly the right segment, calculating how much length of wire I would need for the frequency I want to use it at? To be in the ball park for resonant tuning i mean ? I imagine I would need to take into account the generator/motor configuration as well. For a pipe dream project at a later date that is.

Cheers

Any time I see devices based on impulse my attention is drawn in. If they reveal enough details you can confirm if it's Tesla based. I predict a series of scam artists who make the claims that Tesla did, but with fraudulent products, having the intention of propagandizing others and lowering the number of people who will research this work. The energy monopolies are in serious deep do do, so all of you need to be aware of these people. They are usually intel operatives functioning as distractions from real work, and they discredit real work.

I think weighing the wire would work well, and I think it may have been the approach used by Tesla. Supposedly Eric Dollard claims, matching the surface area is more important and given my understanding of the nature of this phenom. I would say he is right. These long. waves are supposedly circulating on the outside of the circuit, So I would imagine the quantity of energy would accurately match up if surface area was calculated. Technically speaking, it would involve a little math, but I think it would be much less of a pain in the arse to determine the surface area, then cut your wire to length. Weighing it seems like it would be a nightmare.

Be sure you have a binder or folder to put your future project ideas into. I'd like to see this done if you get the chance. You might even consider getting the tesla patent for the electromagnetic coil. That and the conical coils. They appear to be tremendous advancements in terms of efficiency,

[crackahcrackah]

Yeah, thats pretty much it. The best results I've had are with the transformer connected to the positive on the battery, the motor connected to the negative on the battery and the switch between the transformer and the motor.

Positive - transformer - switch - motor - negative.

If you do replicate, take a look at what happens between the machine and a ground. Other things too....you'll see. It's the most baffling thing. Try your electrolysis, AV plugs and single wire experiments too...can be quite impressive. I've thrown pretty much everything I can think of at that thing. Careful though. Keep one hand in your pocket while its running. If you touch it with both hands it might bite you. And I've killed a few diodes too.

Peace
PJ

This is an interesting setup. one more component and it would be the tesla hf circuit. Believe me, I've thought about using the mains to do something like what you're doing but I haven't had the ability to keep my testing on the circuit going. It looks like you should be able to practically power all your lighting almost for free (probably free eventually, by tapping theenvironment better)

Please keep us all apprised of your work and observations with this circuit as it's absolutely, directly related to what we are focused on in this thread.

[cikljamas]

As i can see, something real interesting is happening here !
Shall we jump across that OU gap now after Gmeast claims cop > 1 ?
I believe we shall (overcome)...And i believe this is real cop > 1, cause
my "OU" from last video is under big question (output volts unknown)...

Thanks everyone for your efforts, though i am not competent to take
share in your experts discussion i only can hope that you are going to
continue towards our defined goal...

As far as i can be concerned in this phase of this project development
i am going to immediate analyse this Gmeasts stuff and try to replicate
it as soon as it is possible, so that i can present you my results...

Greg, should we connect impulsator with this stuff of yours ?
Did you try that ?
But since i do not have scope,just like Farmhand (poor us) it would
be of great help for my experimenting if i knew how to connect
impulsator or stingo with this Gregs OU stuff...

Or should (could) i figure out it by myself ?

Cheers !

[cikljamas]

On this page there is interesting schematic and comments
that is concerning our subject very much :
http://www.ionizationx.com/waterfuel...hp?topic=534.0

[gmeast]

impulsator

As i can see, something real interesting is happening here !
Shall we jump across that OU gap now after Gmeast claims cop > 1 ?
I believe we shall (overcome)...And i believe this is real cop > 1, cause
my "OU" from last video is under big question (output volts unknown)...

Thanks everyone for your efforts, though i am not competent to take
share in your experts discussion i only can hope that you are going to
continue towards our defined goal...

As far as i can be concerned in this phase of this project development
i am going to immediate analyse this Gmeasts stuff and try to replicate
it as soon as it is possible, so that i can present you my results...

Greg, should we connect impulsator with this stuff of yours ?
Did you try that ?
But since i do not have scope,just like Farmhand (poor us) it would
be of great help for my experimenting if i knew how to connect
impulsator or stingo with this Gregs OU stuff...

Or should (could) i figure out it by myself ?

Cheers !

Hi cikljamas,

My gadget requires only a SPDT switch ... that is a common terminal selecting either one of two input/outputs.

There are solid state switches that do this but there is the problem that they do not switch below ground thus now requiring more complicated electronics. I have to think about how to drive this thing with simple circuitry.

Unfortunately what I did really doesn't belong in this thread because I'm not really pulsing a coil with a battery, etc. I was just anxious to share my findings.

I'll keep you updated. Meanwhile I will keep trying to pulse a toroid once I have one for this thread.

[crackahcrackah]

As i can see, something real interesting is happening here !
Shall we jump across that OU gap now after Gmeast claims cop > 1 ?

I'd like to recommend that before Gmeast moves on from this, that he try wrapping additional coils on the the inductor he is using. These are to be free standing and not connected to anything.

Now when you pulse the coil you pulsed originally, hook up an oscilloscope to the original coil, make note of the spike amplitude. Then hook up your scope to the free standing coils. They demonstrate the radiant spike! If you have a strong enough spike you can do like I did and hook up a rectifier, and a pF capacitor, then put a neon bulb across it. The magnetic field created during induction induces radiant energy in the coils that aren't hooked to the power circuit.

I think a COP > 1 can be had just by having a primary wrapped around the core. Use it to power the spikes, and wrap thick coils on top of this to pick up, rectify, and stabilize the induced spikes.

I have zero doubt that this will work as I've already done it in the manner I just recommended, but I haven't messed with bigger coils .

Guys, longitudinal energy can be tapped in a number of methods. It behaves like a gas, so where ever we force this gas, and isolate it, we can tap it.

Thanks everyone for your efforts, though i am not competent to take
share in your experts discussion i only can hope that you are going to
continue towards our defined goal...

As far as i can be concerned in this phase of this project development
i am going to immediate analyse this Gmeasts stuff and try to replicate
it as soon as it is possible, so that i can present you my results...

Even if you don't think you can hold a conversation ,be sure to read what is said. That's how you'll learn and become proficient in thinking about this topic. It's taken me a while to get to where I'm at, but a lot of that took studying so many different people with energy claims, and some were probably bogus time wasters. You're getting straight at the issues in this thread because it's focused on Tesla's work that so many talk about but don't fully know what he was doing. This is it! As the thread title states!

Every one just needs to make sure that they are PATIENT. We'll all get there, at different times, mainly because we can't just order certain things premade. And issues such as resonance are central to optimizing the effects we produce. And the manner of sealing pancake coils so that voltage doesn't leak out is not simple, but these are steps along the way.

If you get to a proof of principle give yourself a big pat on the back. And then take a deep breath and start to determine which parts of your circuit you're going to start optimizing, and building the way tesla recommended.

I've done solid state, and my first realization was the voltage limitations. So my to do list involves changing a bunch of components and seeing how it improves efficiency.

Patience and Perseverance.

[crackahcrackah]

On this page there is interesting schematic and comments
that is concerning our subject very much :
Solid state Bedini style battery charger

Well you just made life easier on me. I've been saying I'd post things from a closed forum when I get the chance to dig it up, but you just found a site that's mirroring the forum which closed down, waterfuelforall.

Here's links to some of my posts that are mirrored there, related to this topic.

Boyce PWM3g

I've got some comments on my own work starting here where I got the Boyce PWM3G for my circuit interrupter : Bob Boyce replication fully disclosed.


The two pictures I'm including are ones I just located on another forum I'm on, but has been dead for a while.

The diagram shows how I modified the PWM3g so that it functioned as the circuit breaker in Tesla's 568,176 patent. The arrows indicate voltage direction from high to low. If you have a fast enough FET, you should get minimal current occurring while tension is placed across the inductor and the circuit breaker. You can view the red arrows as transverse+longitudinal waves (hot), and the blue arrows represent filtered longitudinal waves (cold energy).

When that FET slams shut there is an inductive spike which occurs, and some are using diodes to feed it back to batteries, but I am approaching the spike the way Tesla did, and I put symmetrical capacitors at the Source and Drain, and in between them, I place a separate smaller transformer which is what I couple a load to. Every element of this design could be improved for efficiency, but I was just concerned about replicating the voltage/longitudinal wave isolation, as I see that as a first step, in getting to the end point, which is understanding, and being able to make an easily replicable form of this patent.

Yes, yes, if I'm not flagged by the power that be yet, I'm sure it will happen...:P

[sucahyo]

Here Tesla's talking about the stationary waves we were just discussing. At certain physical locations the potential will be high and at others it will be low.

I have been thinking about the possibility of using simple wound with pancake as booster. Just an idea.

[Farmhand]

The diagram shows how I modified the PWM3g so that it functioned as the circuit breaker in Tesla's 568,176 patent. The arrows indicate voltage direction from high to low. If you have a fast enough FET, you should get minimal current occurring while tension is placed across the inductor and the circuit breaker. You can view the red arrows as transverse+longitudinal waves (hot), and the blue arrows represent filtered longitudinal waves (cold energy).

Yes I see so the longitudinal energy goes through the caps somehow ? Or appears on the other side at least. I don't doubt it one bit there doesn't appear to much at all that will stop it. Ok next thing for me to try is a double conical coil, base to base forms. What I have noticed is that when the energy in the coil gets contracted to the apex of the cone it doesn't like to expand back out into increasing spirals, it prefers to breakdown around the apex, it's quite spectacular but it's difficult to film. Anyway just some experiments to try to understand better whats happens. Good fun though all the same.

Rgds