This is it !

[Farmhand]

Umm the T650-52 has more AL nH/N2 it has 405, where as the T650-66 has only 380 AL nH/N2, But the t650-52 is not high temp so maybe thats why the T650- 66 is better.

Hmmm. There is a distributer in Australia i'll contact them.

Cheers.

[gmeast]

1st run

Ok,

I just hooked up my mosfet and all the other stuff in a quick setup just to have one of everything in place ... mosfet, power source, gate driver (PWM), diode and an inductor ... just to get a feel for a setup like we're doing.

I realize now my mosfet is wrong ... slow turn-on time. I'm using just the primary of the transformer I used in my "cap" experiment. I'll probably end up with a different PWM too. So, I don't have ANY of the right stuff now after all. BUT, I can see what pulsing an inductor looks like, the PWM at work, the 'higher-than-V+' coming back via the diode, etc. It's good practice. Everything is put together with long, small wires so it's not good circuit design but everything is there, and it works. Transformer got warm but not the mosfet ... actually stayed cold.

My "on" pulses are around 2 - 2.5 usec, but because of the slow rise time, 'turn on' delay, and other features of the mosfet, the duty cycle is 10% - 15%, but it likes 75kHz for some reason ... probably resonance from long wires 'n stuff. I'll post some pics later this evening.

[Farmhand]

Hi Gmeast, Sounds like your on a good thing to me, it should be easy to change a thing or two. The transformer getting hot but not the fet is the same thing i noticed with steel core. I also noticed that if I use an inductor with too little inductance the setup uses a (lot more power and everything is thrown out of whack, especially the frequency), I'm using inductors with as little as 30 winds on a good ( iron powder) core (best is 90 winds) with very little heat in the inuctor, but if I change to a steel core inductor the core gets very hot very quickly. So I want to buy some plain straight iron powder inductor core's aswell.

I sent an email to MAGCORE so i'll see what they say back, I asked about the T650-66, but it seems to me that a T650-52 would be better, and after reading Boyce torroid in practical guide again i see that is what they recommend. So depending on what they say price wise, and do some more research.

I bought one of those ARM NANO pocket digital oscilliscope's so I can tell accuritely the pulse width, frequency and whatnot.

I'll try later to see what frequency and duty I can get with my desulfator gate driver.

I think we are making progress and have as good a shot at it as anybody else, the more people or groups that can produce positive results the better.

Now i need to see if I can source some good wire in this country.

I also noticed that my output diode is getting hot aswell, Seamonkey recommends a fast recovery diode, I have some in a TO3 and TO220 from a large UPS i'll try them and see what happens.

Cheers

[crackahcrackah]

Umm the T650-52 has more AL nH/N2 it has 405, where as the T650-66 has only 380 AL nH/N2, But the t650-52 is not high temp so maybe thats why the T650- 66 is better.

Hmmm. There is a distributer in Australia i'll contact them.

Cheers.

I can't say that one is better than the other. I got the 650-66 because it was what Bob was working with and I didn't want to deviate from what he was doing. I planned on killing 2 birds with 1 stone, replicate a tesla patent, which required a large inductor, and replicate boyce's series cell. It might be that the 52 is better for squeezing more energy out but I don't know at this point and I didn't sleep well last night. I can say that my 650-66 runs cool to the touch for all the experiments I've done so far, so that relieves one potential problem. I tried making an air core for the Tesla project and while it permitted ridiculous radiant spikes, it also fried the FETs I was using, almost instantaneously.

They may require that you buy a minimum of 2 of the toroids, which is what htey did with me here in Cali. I'm as strapped for cash as the next guy and probably more so, but buying two didn't bother me because these toroids are not going to be easy to get if the bankers keep screwing the global economy. Think of the second as a back up, but treat them both like they are your children.

If one follows the Tesla patent 568,176 directly, then it calls for 2 toroids anyway. Hell I bet Tesla would have loved to have had the access to modernized equipment that we have...

BTW, how many chickens you got on that farm farmhand? My folks always had about 10-15 when I was growing up. And they had a few ducks too. Free range eggs = the best!

[crackahcrackah]

Ok,

I just hooked up my mosfet and all the other stuff in a quick setup just to have one of everything in place ... mosfet, power source, gate driver (PWM), diode and an inductor ... just to get a feel for a setup like we're doing.

I realize now my mosfet is wrong ... slow turn-on time. I'm using just the primary of the transformer I used in my "cap" experiment. I'll probably end up with a different PWM too. So, I don't have ANY of the right stuff now after all. BUT, I can see what pulsing an inductor looks like, the PWM at work, the 'higher-than-V+' coming back via the diode, etc. It's good practice. Everything is put together with long, small wires so it's not good circuit design but everything is there, and it works. Transformer got warm but not the mosfet ... actually stayed cold.

My "on" pulses are around 2 - 2.5 usec, but because of the slow rise time, 'turn on' delay, and other features of the mosfet, the duty cycle is 10% - 15%, but it likes 75kHz for some reason ... probably resonance from long wires 'n stuff. I'll post some pics later this evening.

It's exciting getting every thing set up. I took a few days to fire my circuit up for the first time as I was scared since I'm self taught. I had no problems but it's still good to look over all connections and settings before firing up.

If you wind up ordering FETs from mouser or digikey, use their sorting features to see what they're best rise/fall time parts are, but be sure that they can handle voltage spikes. I still think the 800v peak ones that I posted are ideal for experimenting. There may be better ones out there but I spent a few days searching and sorting through the data sheets on what was available with rapid rise/falls.

Try dropping your duty cycle more to see if it lowers your operating frequency. If you can try starting out with ~8Khz. I know that's a safe frequency in terms of not burning things out. I'd love to see it operating at high frequencies eventually. That's what will permit for a more consistent pressure in the transformer for your loads.

[crackahcrackah]

Hi Gmeast, Sounds like your on a good thing to me, it should be easy to change a thing or two. The transformer getting hot but not the fet is the same thing i noticed with steel core.

Get your duty cycles down as low as possible, where the FET is still able to turn off/on fully.

[Farmhand]

It might be that the 52 is better for squeezing more energy out but I don't know at this point and I didn't sleep well last night. I can say that my 650-66 runs cool to the touch for all the experiments I've done so far, so that relieves one potential problem. I tried making an air core for the Tesla project and while it permitted ridiculous radiant spikes, it also fried the FETs I was using, almost instantaneously.

Yes I will get one or the other I don't think there would be a lot of difference except that the 650-52 would be a tiny bit harder to saturate I suppose, not sure maybe the other way around, either one would be awesome I think.

Yes I tried a small air core by removing the core from a steel core inductor i made and lucky for me I have a current meter on the input. Going from the coil with the good core 550Ma to a coil with air core 2.4 Amps or so I didn't wait long enough to let it level out or measure the frequency it sounded very high but I imagine something would have fried

BTW, how many chickens you got on that farm farmhand? My folks always had about 10-15 when I was growing up. And they had a few ducks too. Free range eggs = the best!

Iv'e just got rid of a few but at the moment i have 3 Roosters and about 20 hens, 8 young chicks as well only 5 of those are females. Sometimes a hen or two will hide for a while then hey presto more chickens They are very noisy but the eggs are yummy and regular. It's a shame more people are not able to keep a couple of chickens, they are very usefull to have around. The roosters have a complex language but the hens know exactly what they say. It's funny to watch how they work.

[gmeast]

I'm a gettin' there!

Hi all newbies looking at MOSFET drain pins (direct and not across a shunt) ... Remember, if you're using an N-Channel MOSFET, with a 'high-side' load, you're looking at a short MINUS-GOING pulse. The high end of the inductor is tied solidly to V+. That means the FET-end of the inductor (drain pin) will read V+ when the FET is 'off' (which is most of the time). When the FET 'fires' (turns 'on'), it pulls the FET-end of the inductor to ground ... this is the leading edge of your pulse as seen from a 'power' standpoint. Your PWM is pulsing a short 'plus-gong' gate pulse to make this happen. It's easy to get confused if you have never worked with N-Channel gizmos.

I'm now pulsing at 1.3usec per pulse at 56kHz. The system is drawing 74mA on a 13.5 VDC-1Amp Radio Shack Wall Wart. My P-P for the pulse is 15.5V ... but the power supply is 13.5VDC?... something good is going on! Both the MOSFET and the transformer are stone cold and have remained that way for hours. There is NO BEMF as you would expect from pulsing an inductor ... no negative-going spikes ... no 'ringing' of any kind ... what's up with that? ... way cool though. Of course I have that diode in there ... a 1N5408 ... not exceptional.

So, if I beef up the wires and generally neaten things up, I think I can go with this for round #1.

I'm excited! "Onward and Upward". It's too late to send pictures. Had a long day doing less essential and less important stuff.

Later

[Farmhand]

There is NO BEMF as you would expect from pulsing an inductor ... no negative-going spikes ... no 'ringing' of any kind ... what's up with that? ... way cool though. Of course I have that diode in there ... a 1N5408 ... not exceptional.

Hi Gmeast, Are you scoping the recovery from the drain side of a the recovery diode? Might need a second battery for now to see what radiant there is to work with. I have the charging battery - Neg connected to source battery + Pos and the recovery diode to charging battery + Pos. We can change the recovery to whatever config. we want later, like a one battery deal. I think we will need somewhere for the radiant to escape to to be able to see it. I'm not sure if you are using recovery or not yet so sorry if you are, but I thought i should mention that just incase.

I get this when I scope the drain of the fet.





I think the second one is using only about 10 or 20 Ma. Not sure now if thats the shot but i got it down to that a few days ago.

I am using it 24/7 to revive some batteries it is very effective when tuned to 30% duty at 4 Khz using about 600 Ma It's fixing batteries one after another. tonight i'll change the little cap on the driver circuit to a smaller one which drops the duty way down and the frequency way up and see what happens.

I can't wait to get this new Nano scope hope it works.

I'll post another shot later if I get something worth looking at.

Cheers

[gmeast]

Hi Gmeast, Are you scoping the recovery from the drain side of a the recovery diode? Might need a second battery for now to see what radiant there is to work with. I have the charging battery - Neg connected to source battery + Pos and the recovery diode to charging battery + Pos. We can change the recovery to whatever config. we want later, like a one battery deal. I think we will need somewhere for the radiant to escape to to be able to see it. I'm not sure if you are using recovery or not yet so sorry if you are, but I thought i should mention that just incase.
.................................................. ...............................................
I'll post another shot later if I get something worth looking at.

Cheers

Yes ... I am scoping on the FET drain and also I'm recovering with the diode. It's the setup in the opening video except I'm not using a toroid. I'm not using a battery either. I have my wall wart tied also to a 60,000uF cap in parallel just to protect the wall wart. So the cap is a pretty deep hole if you know what I mean. I will probably see more if I am recovering to a battery ... something more like a brick wall. All I wanted to do was to get it going. I'm missing one thing though ... that choke between the diode(s) and V+.

Next, I will hook to a battery. What are the parameters of that choke anyway?

Later

[Farmhand]

Next, I will hook to a battery. What are the parameters of that choke anyway?

I'm not sure about the choke, but in the diagram in the PGTFE book I think should show the oscillators with a direct connection to the source battery, I would think the choke should go only between the reovery and source battery positive( though the drawing may be right and i may be wrong) we'll work that out somehow. , a heavy duty choke.

Cheers

Edit

Oh in the scope shots above the 0 volts line of the charging battery is the centre line of the ringing oscillations, it is the same line as the voltage of the source battery the very bottom of the trace is the source battery 0 volts.

I wasn't sure if everyone was aware of that thats all I don't usually line up the charging battery 0v line with the scope centre line.

[gmeast]

between recovery and source +

I'm not sure about the choke, but in the diagram in the PGTFE book I think should show the oscillators with a direct connection to the source battery, I would think the choke should go only between the reovery and source battery positive( though the drawing may be right and i may be wrong) we'll work that out somehow. , a heavy duty choke.
.................................................. ...............
Cheers

I am referring to the setup in the opening video to this thread. I reviewed the video over and over to confirm that in fact he uses N-Channel Mosfets, and the choke goes between the recovery diode(S) and the Battery Positive ... for a single battery system, which is what I'm shooting for. When hooking up for recovery, he uses this tine green wire that's almost impossible to see because of video quality ... but it's there hooked to the battery positive. I'd say the choke is about 1-1/2" in dia ??

Now when I remove MY diode, I get a single huge additional +30VDC oscillation swing, but no 'classic' ringing.

Later.

[Farmhand]

OK, I have a small toroid.
Does the choke core differ from a normal ferrite core?

I have it wound with magnet wire so i'm gonna try that, tonight.

I can get 35Kz at 14% duty using somewhere between 10 and 20 Ma i'll say 20 Ma.

Here's a couple of pics





So i'll try to get the duty down even though I don't think my on/off time's are quick enough. And try to self charge a battery through a choke. After dinner that is.

I think to get ringing we need the iron powder core. I can see at least three of the oscillations after the initial charge period that hit the charge voltage.

That is connected to a pretty bad battery though, recovering into a cap might damp the oscillations right down. Because of the very bad battery the spike is bouncing a bit more than usual.

A cap may even catch and hold a lot more of that than a battery
too.

Cheers

Once again I didn't line up the horozontal line on the scope but the second shot I made one cycle cover 6 spaces across the time scale.

[gmeast]

30 years !

Hi all,

I'd like to declare a replication of the self-charging circuit that started this thread. However, I declare this cautiously because there are many factors to this thing that can cause a 'false positive' result.

However, that said:

I have been exploring OU, or more correctly stated, COP>1 for more than 30 years. I, through experimentation and research as well as those of many countless others have hoped to catch a glimpse of something tangible to support the possibility of COP>1.

With the modest setup I have slapped together, I believe I can honestly say "IT IS SO".

I ran my setup all day long. I hooked up the rig to a flooded lead-acid battery that's been kept in great shape since it was new. I wasted a bunch of battery power just tuning up. I ultimately started off testing at 12.58VDC. The battery recovered to around 12.6VDC.

I began my testing at this point. I tuned my circuit for lowest current draw based on minimum 'on-time' pulse width and frequency (nothing I could do about duty cycle with my sluggish components). Once I had it tune to the best parameter I believed I could achieve, I disconnected the scope probes and connected the DVM to the battery but switched it 'off', only to switch it 'on" to read battery voltage and then 'off' again.

In operation, the circuit plus pulsing-the-inductor consumes 46.12mA and with the inductor unplugged it's 46.29mA ... what does THAT mean?

This thing CHARGES ... I did NOT expect that with these components. I had assumed I could only 'tune' for minimum declining battery voltage. Of course I suspected that the 'charge' was actually the battery still recovering or that its voltage was increasing because of it warming up as the day progressed. So, to test that, at the end of my testing, I put a 1/2 Watt 255Ohm resistor across the battery at 12.69VDC (gives the same current draw as the circuit consumes) and the battery voltage indeed dropped ... albeit painfully slowly, but it dropped nonetheless.

Please see my pictures:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian.../charging0.jpg
This first picture "charging0.jpg" shows the MOSFET Drain (yellow trace 3V scale) and the top of the battery (green trace 10V scale)
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...parameters.jpg
The next two pictures are of the battery voltage when I began uploading the pictures and again at two hours later. At the time of this post, the battery is at 12.71VDC. I actually expect thing to drop somewhat as the night grows on and the temperatures drop ... batteries respond that way you know.
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...ing0_begin.jpg
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...ging0_post.jpg
This picture is what the current draw of the PWM circuit (overhead):
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...0_overhead.jpg

Enjoy the rest of the pictures here:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...ing0_setup.jpg
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...g0_battery.jpg
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...ing0_board.jpg
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...0_inductor.jpg
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...ing0_diode.jpg

Can you imagine the results if I used better parts?

Later,

Greg

[cikljamas]

Greg, when we are going to see some diagrams of that thing to be
able to replicate it too ?

I just finished my super charger "bingo" (the name is given in honor of
stingo), and i am just going to publish it in new thread to allow people
to just sit and make it, and enjoy in its benefits right away...

I studied JT thread a lot last days and i took the best of what i found there
and using stingo making experience in the same time, i succeeded to make and test this stuff , and the results are very good, and now i offer people the result of my hard work...

So it happened in the same time, Greg did something and i did
something...

But, Greg, even if your project is not finished i would like to try to
replicate it, could you attach here your diagram or we have to wait
a little bit more ?

Congratulations and