This is it !

[Farmhand]

So, the pivotal reason I went with the expensive gear was your declaration that we must 'swirl' ... it's all your fault ... you, you, you!

Somehow I don't think you will be sorry. I think this is almost more your project now more than anyone else's (I think cikljamas would probably agree), though I am very happy to be taking some part in it.

We are all kind of in differring states of preparation. Which is cool, things will come together for us, cikljamas will come in with something sweet and juicy for us every now and then and at the last moment to build the device. He is a tireless worker and needs to keep busy, I really respect that. He covers a lot of ground. If it can be done, we can do it. If we build it, it should do something.

[sucahyo]

Ok... Capture the wave inside the wave. Do you mean the lower frequency wave in the higher frequency wave? That's exactly what I am proposing. I tried a bridge rectifier and an av plug and a single diode and a filter capacitor.. Some of these worked ok but I didn't keep detailed enough notes, so I will have to run the experiments again. I'm going to try an rf choke. Any suggestions about what to try?

Sounds like an equalizer....

Which one better for you. bridge or single diode?

It seems like gain to me... I can get a bunch (around 20) of LEDs to light extremely brightly at certain tunings. I measured > 100 volts easily with lots of different coils using my scope, which maxes out at 100 volts. With my 1000x voltage divider I saw up to about 50 volt spikes, riding on top of a 50-150 volt dc offset, in one coil. This is all running off 2.7 volts, 2 rechargeable AA batteries, and with the driver circuit consuming 20-50 mA!

That is great .

To do this, I have entertained the following:
Three trigger circuits (tc1, tc2 & tc3), each firing a Fet (or transistor) to a winding. Each trigger circuit is independently tuned to fire its Fet optimally as quickly and sharply and with as short a duration as is possible.

I think 7imix already obtain the first sine wave, I wonder if we can produce two or four pulse out of one.

[Farmhand]

7imix

In a magnet, the iron atoms have been aligned in a crystal lattice such that the magnetic fields generated by the electrons spinning around the nucleus are all pointing along the same axis. The aggregate of these small fields is the magnetic field of the magnet. A magnetic field only exists as charges move in opposition to each other, so for that magnetic field to stay in that bar magnet those electrons have to keep spinning round and round in those atoms. Which, luckily, they do

Yes I see, my point was, what stops the iron atoms from returning to thier original orientation quicker ? Because the electrons were always rotating around the nucleus are they now spinning on thier own axis as well. The fields were just not aligned before it was magnetised. For the magnetic field lines to exist energy must be always dissipating and being replaced. The same as it always was before the fields were aligned.

So with an electromagnet the fields created by the electron spin are lined up in the copper coil and the core ? Very interesting.

Maybe someone can tell me what will happen if I try a copper coated carbon rod for a coil core before i try it.

7imix

How does the toroid fit in? Well, it has the short, high voltage spikes without the high voltage required for a spark gap. It has a tight spherical magnetic field instead of the big ol' wobbly dipole of a traditional helix coil. So, the magnetic field doesn't get radiated away when it hits the top of the coil and gets reflected back.

Thank you for taking the time to help me understand this a bit better, I think i'm getting it now slowly, so the tighter field is more dense and is restricted, so it's like "shaping a charge" or "encasing a rapid expansion with only a small outlet", that description would fit a lot of things like the difference between blowing up and releasing a certain amount of air from big soft balloon with some small holes in it, and blowing up and releasing the same amount of air from a small tight ballon, but all done in a sealed room pressurised to low pressure. Blowing the air into the big balloon will only result in a small pressure difference with leakage, but blowing the same amount into a small tight ballon will pressurise it more and will result in a bigger pressure difference, and no leakage. Thats what we want is pressure difference "potential". So in the centre of the toroid it should be reduced of forces and create a dipole across this area N to S ?

[sucahyo]

Maybe someone can tell me what will happen if I try a copper coated carbon rod for a coil core before i try it.

What is that for?

I believe in OU model of Harold Aspden where we get gain if we utilize >50% but <100% coil saturation. Never try it, but OU reported to happen by people who use coil that saturate slowly or can be controlled.

[gmeast]

saturate

What is that for?

I believe in OU model of Harold Aspden where we get gain if we utilize >50% but <100% coil saturation. Never try it, but OU reported to happen by people who use coil that saturate slowly or can be controlled.

Hi sucahyo,

Doesn't the coil just turn into a joule heater once you begin saturation? Without actually saying it, Joseph Newman does not saturate his coils and relies on a mechanical commutator + timing to capture the BEMF and crack into ZP. Of course you can't understand a word he's saying, but that's what he's doing. He uses, what amounts to, a mechanical interrupter in the form of his commutator.

Tesla spoke of weight and length of wire. Newman ALWAYS refers to his motors in terms of " .... a 500lb motor", or " ... a 100lb motor", as examples.

There are similarities ... Tesla - Newman

Later

[gmeast]

wire

Excelent to hear that Greg, I need to get some wire, wax and tape. What size is the wire they are sending you ? I need to find that out as soon as possible. How will we separate the windings into segments, i'm thinking it might be best to use a collar placed on the toroid at the points of the segments to form a definate boundary for the segment windings.
:

Hi Farmhand,

"Comes with 6.5 iron core, 200' of the solid silver coated copper wire with Teflon coating. Mil. Spec wire, that Bob Boyce (Tesla Buff) says you have to use, in order for this project to work .) 100' of the first winding - 16 awg and 100' of the second 3 part winding - 20 awg."

First winding is the secondary and is 16 awg and in the pdf's and videos it's white. The outer windings (3 of them) are 20 awg, and again, according to the info' available, they are yellow. And the Core is 650-52 ... not -66 like I had mistakenly said in an earlier post that I have since revised.

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, Well thats good I have the right core then. Thanks for that. I'll see what I can do about the wire.

Cheers

[gmeast]

latest scope capture

Hi all,

Well I think we will be able to make a good, sharp pulse. Here is my latest capture. I'm using the Quad Op-Amp PWM with offset control. My Mosfet is a logic level N-channel, 4.3 mOhm, PSMN4R3-30PL. The coil is a homemade toroid core of coiled up re-bar tie wire ... 3.5" dia. ... didn't count the turns.

The yellow trace is the Fet firing the coil to ground, top end of coil is battery(+). The 'on' time is 1.18usec, 200nsec fall and 120nsec rise. The green trace is my PWM gate driving pulse. I'm kind of proud of this ... can't wait for a real toroid.

Here's the capture:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...n4r3-30pl0.JPG

Later

[sucahyo]

Doesn't the coil just turn into a joule heater once you begin saturation? Without actually saying it, Joseph Newman does not saturate his coils and relies on a mechanical commutator + timing to capture the BEMF and crack into ZP. Of course you can't understand a word he's saying, but that's what he's doing. He uses, what amounts to, a mechanical interrupter in the form of his commutator.

Isn't <100% saturation is to never saturate?

I assume that 100% saturation is when the signal trace stop climbing, am I correct? Using this assumption then 50% to 100% saturation means we are turning off the power before the signal goes flat and we turn it on again before the signal reach 50% of its travel.

The yellow trace is the Fet firing the coil to ground, top end of coil is battery(+). The 'on' time is 1.18usec, 200nsec fall and 120nsec rise. The green trace is my PWM gate driving pulse. I'm kind of proud of this ... can't wait for a real toroid.

I can't read it well. What do you think about 7imix signal? Like this for instance?
YouTube - Stingo toroid

[gmeast]

saturation

Isn't <100% saturation is to never saturate?

I assume that 100% saturation is when the signal trace stop climbing, am I correct? Using this assumption then 50% to 100% saturation means we are turning off the power before the signal goes flat and we turn it on again before the signal reach 50% of its travel.

I can't read it well. What do you think about 7imix signal? Like this for instance?
YouTube - Stingo toroid

Hi sucahyo,

Well from everything I know about controls and conventional power systems, the longer you leave current on a coil, then the more saturated the coil, and thus the magnetic field flux becomes. It may just be semantics and we both know that you should 'cut' the current before the coil 'fills' up or you are just generating heat. So we both know what is the right thing to do for COP>1, but what to call it?

Yes, I like 7imix's signal. I am using a diode to capture BEMF. I would like to see his signal maybe used to launch a Fet pulse. All he needs to do is to take his high voltage spike and run it through a step-down transformer rather than try and make the Stingo effect straight-up low voltage for firing a Fet. I'm sure it could then be used to drive either a Fet or a Transistor. Very COOL indeed.

Speaking of 'cool', my Mosfet is staying very cool at 43kHz. I'm grateful for that. My toroid is heating but the battery voltage is either climbing or 'holding'.

Later

[cikljamas]

Hi guys !
You are marching through Georgia with firm steps !!!
I am proud of you, my children !!!
Thank you all for your efforts and moving ahead towards our goal !
Sucahyo, now that you are with us more often with your precious
advices we are going to arrive to our destination much sooner !
I made some progress concerning your thread, and now i have to
replicate Farmhands circuit (desulfator)...

Farmhand, thanks for your diagram, i was in electronic store to obtain some electronic parts that i need for this circuit of yours (cd4001 and schottkys),but,tell me please few things :
1. What pnp do you use ?
2. L1 specs (how much turns, what awg, what core)
3. mosfet could be any n channel or must be some specific
4. could i use it (circuit) as desulfator and if yes how could i see
if it works well when i assemble it ?
5. External power source makes the difference between desulfator and
pulsator ??? If yes, it means 12 V ?
6. Final but not less important, on contrary : do i need oscilloscope for
adjustment and what final results i could expect of this circuit ?

Thanks !

Greg, when we are going to see some of your diagram ?
I do not push you, i just ask, i am not in hurry at all, do not
misunderstand me !

7imix, i think you said you made some mistakes in your last posting
diagram, i replicated it , and it worked but without oscilloscope i cant
do much with it i suppose...

Go ahead guys, i ll catch you when you finish my job

YouTube - Marching through Georgia

[Farmhand]

Hi cikljamas, i'm a little rushed right now, i'll answer your questions very soon. Very heavy rain preparing for flooding.

I just wanted to post this. Back soon.



Untested. Note. Windings are shown for CW rotation (southern hemisphere)

gotta get a mop ready, crazy weather.

[gmeast]

diagram

Hi guys !
You are marching through Georgia with firm steps !!!
I am proud of you, my children !!!
Thank you all for your efforts and moving ahead towards our goal !
Sucahyo, now that you are with us more often with your precious
advices we are going to arrive to our destination much sooner .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................................
Greg, when we are going to see some of your diagram ?
I do not push you, i just ask, i am not in hurry at all, do not
misunderstand me !
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................................
YouTube - Marching through Georgia

Hi cikljamas,

I just wanted to be sure, first off, that I could get a sub-1usec pulse duration at 42,800Hz per Boyce. So I can do that which means that my gate-driving technique (gate drive tuning) works (it's just biasing stuff ... resistors). Some of my offset circuit summing and feedback resistors are on the bottom of the board. So I have to tear down the setup to record the values. I'll post the sub-usec 'on time' scope capture in another post.

Now I will work on sketching EXACTLY what I have in my circuit ... maybe a picture of my crappy steel wire-core toroid ... nothin' to write home about. I also have an idea for drastically reducing circuit power overhead (waste).

My next thing to do will be to determine the component requirement for an RC-based sequencer. Since I will be building the "Boyce" toroid, I will be 'swirling' with 3 primary coils, each with its common to battery(+) like in watkykjy's video at the beginning of this thread. So ... my circuit will address the needs of 'swirling' 3 coils, 'round and 'round the toroid.

.......... and cikljamas, you have to play too!

Later

[sucahyo]

It may just be semantics and we both know that you should 'cut' the current before the coil 'fills' up or you are just generating heat.

Agree .

stingo output vary with load, constant output power on same input power. I think stingo output will be low even with 1:1 coil, if input power is low. May need scope to check it though.

But why you are happy that your MOSFET is cool? Isn't that sign that you don't drive the MOSFET hard enough?


My theory still unproven cikljamas ....


BTW, anyone know a cheap way to generate a pulse on every two pulse? To get synchronize pulse.

[Farmhand]

cikljamas,

1. PNP MPSA56
2. I have 80 turns of 1mm or 18 AWG on a iron powder core 10 mm x 40 mm.
3. Yes any N channel works IRF540 in this one.
4. I am making one another now actually, this one with two coils and fets.
As you build it when you have the pulse generator part done supply power to it with a Ma meter connected it should draw les than 10 Ma. When you first set it up set the pots to "Width 2K" , "Frequency 90K" Roughly that should give you low frequency and width drive pulses.
5. Not sure about that Yeah 12 to 15 volts.
6. You don't need one really. Do you have a DMM that can read frequency and/or duty cycle ? That would help. Keep checking the power usage, if it uses too much something is wrong. With a steel core I recommend staying below 2 Khz, ferrite 10 Khz or with iron powder really high. If the core gets quite warm with moderate power consumption the frequency is too high, with ferrite you might hear it up to a point.

Like I said i'm building another one now so i will check if you need help, Umm maybe this should be in a different thread it's off topic.

Anyway cheers. gotta run again