This is it !

[Farmhand]

Farmhand my friend, i made it on the board, here is the picture of
it...
But i am not satisfied cause 40/20 mAmps seems too bad efficiency...
I use irf 540 and pnp 2n3906...
What did i wrong, maybe this choke, it is not choke on the core, but
that one like resistor from the store, maybe i should use real choke
wound on the ferrite , but you did not answer me how much turns
i should wind to get closely to 1000 uH...
So, did you really put two chokes as you showed in your diagram
(drew with hand) or it was mistake, and if it was mistake and if
there is just one choke which one is right regarding position in
the circuit ?

Ragards !

P.S. Guys , you work like a hell, you must be protestants,
well i am catholic so my brothers in arms and in Christ i wish you
merry christmas, and if you are jews i love you too, and if you are
muslims i love you too, and who ever you are i love you cause we
are all sons of one heavenly Father !

The last diagram for the self desulfator has three inductors, but I haven't built that one yet I am making the one with external power source.

I would say if the 200 to 500 uH inductor has about 80 turns 2 layers then 1000 uH could be about 160 turns three or four layers. Well thats probably what I would do.

How much power does your circuit use with the coil or the mosfet removed ?

You whipped that up very quickly, good job.

I am fairly sure a good compressed iron powder core will improve the efficiency of any field collapse circuit. Especially at higher frequencies.

Without you knowing what your operating frequency is it would be hard to tune at all. Does the coil get warm or ring high pitched at higher power levels ?

To all,

Here is a picture from the Tesla high frequency document, it shows Tesla's toroid wired so he is using one pair of secondaries in series and the other pair in parallel, that is very usefull from a utility point of view. He used four primaries and four secondaries. Very cool setup.



I would like to make me a low frequency one like that about 400 mm in diameter from insulated flat iron rings like he describes, and drive it with a generator just like the picture, but with a custom made wind generator.
Maybe next year.

Cheers all

[Farmhand]

cikljamas, your output pulses would be quite weak at that power level if the frequency is high, try adjusting the width resistance to 5 or 6 K and the frequency resistance to 98K or so and see what happens if it uses more power than you like then reduce the width resistance and or increase the frequency resistance till it is better.

There are many factors that can effect a cop test, one being the chargability of the charging battery. and another the tuning of the device to find it's sweet spot for a particular application. There are many ways to tune but they all take time to analyze. You may need to persist to do some trial and error experimenting when you find a circuit you think has promise.

Cheers

P.S. Merry Christmas cikljamas, and a peacefull new year. There is no back slapping emoticon, so this one will have to do.

[Farmhand]

cikljamas, I like your last song, but this is what it sounds like here now the suns up.

YouTube - The Fools - Psycho Chicken (1980)

And this is what we will be doing next year.

YouTube - Spinning Wheel - High Quality Version

I was thinking with a adjacent pair of windings on a toroid that are series connected I wonder what would happen if i placed some kind of phase shifting arrangement between them, it could be as simple as a piece of core with a single wrap of wire positioned in a certain way to produce the desired phase delay between them, or a single wrap around the toroid itself in the right spot and wound the right way.

I'll have to think about the best way to word my thoughts on phase relationships. And draw some sketches. To help me.

I have to go eyeball my animals and check for fence shorts.

Cheers

I like this one too.

YouTube - Blood Sweat & Tears - And when I die

[sucahyo]

Farmhand and cikljamas, radiant circuit also known for its good desulfating property. In fact I see Farmhand desulfator as radiant circuit variation. You pulse a coil and give the output to battery.

Now, I start to wonder if the non discharging battery that cikljamas observe for some time is because stingo desulfating the source battery, that when the battery is fully desulfated the voltage start to drop ...........

[Farmhand]

Farmhand and cikljamas, radiant circuit also known for its good desulfating property. In fact I see Farmhand desulfator as radiant circuit variation. You pulse a coil and give the output to battery.

Now, I start to wonder if the non discharging battery that cikljamas observe for some time is because stingo desulfating the source battery, that when the battery is fully desulfated the voltage start to drop ...........

Yes thanks Sucahyo, thats what I was trying to get at, at those low power levels, the circuit works so well it delivers almost pure radiant energy to the battery, there is not much current left from 40 ma, and also notice exactly half EM efficiency, 50/50.

As you kind of mention sucahyo the radiant energy alone is not the best for actually charging the battery, you need some current. The current will come through at higher power levels ( over 750 Ma ) and can be tuned for to a degree, however as seamonkey warned, the EMI and RFI is a bit much with a normal coil, it radiates. Makes me feel a bit woozy but not headache, and no lasting ill effects.

For a 7 Ah gell cell I can charge it with 450 Ma to the device in a couple of hours. If I go too much more input than that the charge battery voltage goes up crazy fast and I get the feeling it is cooking the little battery.

The problem with testing is it takes up too much time.

Yeah I think your right about stingo desufating aswell (in cikljamas' video) , maybe if the battery is sulfated the radiant spikes are absorbed into breaking down the sulfate and as that happens the newly created chemical "area or capacity" is filled by the batteries charge as well which drops the batteries overal voltage, I think that might be what you said. Oh well

Cheers all

[7imix]

Hey gmeast,

I have the op amp pwm built, I will try reproducing your waveforms. It looks like you use a depletion mode MOSFET? I'm not sure I have any of those.

Good idea about using a step-down transformer. I will try. I have had some good success with low power stingo and bingo variants, still playing with tuning those. The inductance of the coil is crucial, and not many people have LCR meters.

I have created the world's simplest stingo in a circuit simulator. Building this for real takes some calculations though. I am working those out and will post when I have a simple scheme for designing a stingo/bingo for a given coil and desired frequency.

[sucahyo]

As you kind of mention sucahyo the radiant energy alone is not the best for actually charging the battery, you need some current. The current will come through at higher power levels ( over 750 Ma ) and can be tuned for to a degree, however as seamonkey warned, the EMI and RFI is a bit much with a normal coil, it radiates. Makes me feel a bit woozy but not headache, and no lasting ill effects.

I once use that approach too with my 555 version. We do get more normal current at higher input. However like you said, it produce bad radiation.

I now think that using FWBR is better. I use capacitor to prevent too much normal current from flowing to the charged battery. With three stingo combined I can charge two 2500mAh 1.2V nimh from empty to full in 30 minutes with 750mA @ 11.5V input without feeling bad radiation. Although it do smell bad if I raise the input to 2A lol.

I think this charging speed already exceed the quick battery charger, example:
http://www.xenotronix.com/PDF/NDX40_appnote.pdf

It mention 2500mA output for fully charge 2500mAh nimh in 1.5 hour.

For a 7 Ah gell cell I can charge it with 450 Ma to the device in a couple of hours. If I go too much more input than that the charge battery voltage goes up crazy fast and I get the feeling it is cooking the little battery.

Radiant make more bubble but with less heat.

I often overcharge my battery and I am thankfull that the battery remain touchable. However more bubble part make me wonder if I reduce the battery life when overcharging...

[sucahyo]

I have created the world's simplest stingo in a circuit simulator. Building this for real takes some calculations though. I am working those out and will post when I have a simple scheme for designing a stingo/bingo for a given coil and desired frequency.

Great .

[gmeast]

my circuit

OK cikljamas,

Here is EXACTLY what I am running. Now I think you won't beat me up next time you see me. You do indeed need an oscilloscope to tune this thing though. I've learned to do it by feeling the heat of the MOSFET. When it hits room temperature and still running, I'm there.

Here is a PDF of my circuit. I can't say it's 'mine' because these circuits are floating around all over:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...r_N-MOSFET.pdf

The resistor and cap values differ from the generic circuit I originally posted re: Op-Amp PWM. That circuit uses 3 Op-Amps with no adjustment but they tell you what does what. So resistor R is a variable resistor for frequency control. I messed with the ratio of R1 & R2 until I had a higher-amplitude triangle wave ... that made short PW easier for the comparator. Since I am using a logic-level MOSFET, I needed to add the offset output buffer (U1D) and resistor network (110 ohm resistor set). I'm not using a choke after the diode 1N5408 'cause I still don't know what it's for.

That's it. My toroid parts are slowly moving in my direction. I was hoping to have the stuff by the 25th as my personal Christmas present to myself. But the US Postal service is the carrier, so I don't think it will happen.

Happy

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg This page here outlines a good reason for the choke.

This is what it says

There is an issue with electrical equipment connected across the battery;
lights, radio, etc. Depending on the impedance of this equipment, it may
absorb some of the pulse energy, thereby minimizing the effect on the
battery. To solve this problem, slip a ferrite toroid core over each
positive battery lead (right at the battery) going to the other equipment.
Exclude the pulse charger lead. The ferrite core will increase the high
frequency resistance without affecting the DC performance of the
circuitry. Hence all the pulse energy will enter the battery and not be
consumed by the electrical loads connected to it.

battery desulphater

Makes some sense. That is what I originally thought we should do with it, I mentioned it back there somewhere I think.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Awsome drawing Greg, it will take me a while to get my head around it but.

I just finished another board this one with two Fets and with the LED and circuit running but no coils in there it is using 20 Ma, if I was using 40 Ma all up and 20 Ma was going to the charge battery would that be 100 % efficiency ?

Anyway I can't wait to get my op amps it won't be for a while because of back post, unless I go to town.

Do you like the Spinning Wheel song ? Hahaha

Nice drawing, worth the wait,

[Farmhand]

Yeah this waveform is remarkable considering you did not use a choke. It bangs right back up to the top of the battery. Then a bit more.


Hope you can do it too 7imix. Fingers crossed you do.

Here is my dual fet board it, "fun times" I can pulse two coils at the same frequency Synchronised, and recover the field through the two 1N5822 diodes. If I pulse a pair of coils on a torroid, I can choose to take the field collapse or tap the secondaries on the toroid, the secondary can be shorted for greater effect apparently. With this board I should be able to draw 2 amps, and together with the other one I have three. The coils go in the pair of small terminal blocks and the output is the big one to the right of them.



Cheers

[cikljamas]

Hi all !

I would say if the 200 to 500 uH inductor has about 80 turns 2 layers then 1000 uH could be about 160 turns three or four layers. Well thats probably what I would do.

I do not get that about layers, why layers, could not you just wind it
in just one layer ? I mean at the end of the story you have to connect
them (layers) together before you apply it to circuit, so why multiple
layers (like in photoshop), what is purpose of those layers, better to
ask : what is advantage of multiple layers instead of just one ?

How much power does your circuit use with the coil or the mosfet removed ?

I am gonna check it out and let you know.

Without you knowing what your operating frequency is it would be hard to tune at all. Does the coil get warm or ring high pitched at higher power levels ?

Did not try it at higher power levels.
So, i thought you said Tesla had not have oscilloscope, so i do not need
one too, now you say without knowing what my operating freq. is it would
be hard to tune it at all?

Here is a picture from the Tesla high frequency document, it shows Tesla's toroid wired so he is using one pair of secondaries in series and the other pair in parallel, that is very usefull from a utility point of view. He used four primaries and four secondaries. Very cool setup.

Farmhand, do not you think i use in my circuit wrong inductors ?
I mean they are 300 uH, and 1000 uH, but this kind of inductors
must be unusable for our purpose ???

OK cikljamas,

Here is EXACTLY what I am running. Now I think you won't beat me up next time you see me. You do indeed need an oscilloscope to tune this thing though. I've learned to do it by feeling the heat of the MOSFET. When it hits room temperature and still running, I'm there.

No, i wont beat you, you ll just have to empty your pockets and stick them
up, but i am not sure in what order, cause if you sticked them up first how
would you empty your pockets, hm , i do not know, i should
have ask first passer by unless you first gave me the solution for this
problem...
I do indeed need an oscilloscope...Well i see what can i do about it...

Here is a PDF of my circuit. I can't say it's 'mine' because these circuits are floating around all over:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...r_N-MOSFET.pdf

Nevertheless these circuits are floating around i consider it as christmas
present for all of us too, not just for yourself, so THANKS A LOT !

I'm not using a choke after the diode 1N5408 'cause I still don't know what it's for.

Maybe this choke after diode reduce power consumption, i noticed that
yesterday playing with Farmhands desulfator ?

That's it. My toroid parts are slowly moving in my direction. I was hoping to have the stuff by the 25th as my personal Christmas present to myself. But the US Postal service is the carrier, so I don't think it will happen.

So, what to buy first this toroid or oscilloscope ?

Happy

[Farmhand]

Ok by layers I just mean layers of windings not separate pieces of wire. The circuit you have uses normal straight inductors, can you show me the drawing of the circuit you built ? When you wind a coil on a core you go back and forth in layers more windings and or more layers = more inductance, for a coil to work at maximum performance the windings should be done very neatly and the layers staggered, the layers should also have an equal number of windings. I have a coil with 80 winds in two layers it is only "one" piece of wire.

You don't need an oscilliscope to measure frequency, period !!, my scope can't even tell me the frequency, you can measure the frequency with a DMM that is able to do that, I also said before that a DMM that can measure frequency would be helpfull. There are other ways to tell aswell.

You built the circuit, and yet you did not need an oscilliscope. I am confused. You can also tune it without an oscilliscope.

Farmhand, do not you think i use in my circuit wrong inductors ?
I mean they are 300 uH, and 1000 uH, but this kind of inductors
must be unusable for our purpose ???

What is your purpose. Because I was just occupying my time, constructively while I wait for Gregs circuit to pulse my big dohut core.

I have not built the self powered desulfator, I have built boards that can pulse coils, they can be used in different ways, I have batteries to desulfate big one's, lots of them, that is why i built them mainly, but i can also use them for other things, like producing radiant energy for lighting or whatever.

I'm not sure exactly what circuit you did build, can you post a drawing of the exact circuit how you are using it.

Rgds

P,S. Do you like the spinning wheel song ? I reckon it's a ripper.

[Farmhand]

cikljamas, I am waiting for one of these to arrive,

ARM DSO Portable Digital Storage Oscilloscope DIY KIT (eBay item 190399216030 end time 19-Jan-11 00:13:12 AEDST) : Industrial

They are cheap, I hope it will come tommorow, when it does arrive I will let you know how usefull it is. I think 7imix has the exact same one and his seem s to be very good.

You could excel in this field with the right tools. A DMM with frequency and duty cycle function is very usefull aswell, they usually have a temperature probe also.