This is it !

[gmeast]

diode

Here is the circuit I used in the video.



I am not using a recovery diode. I haven't figured out exactly where to place it yet. I'll look at your circuit diagram again.

Very Nice! That 859 is kinda' pricey. I pondered the diode thing quite a bit as you can tell from some of my posts. Watching the videos, I was able to only partially deduce that the diode goes from the mosfet drain/coil node, to a choke and then to battery +. Battery + is the common in this thing.

I say only "partially deduce" because it is hard to actually see from where on the board those diode connections come from but they are 'common' where they exit the board. I have some fractal software that may allow me to look closer at captures from the videos.

It's clear that there hasn't been 'full" public disclosure on this (or even close) or these questions would not be ... well, "questions".

I hate to say it, but I can see why Bob used a micro. Of course he has many variables in his HHO Cell like water temperature, heatsink (component), temperatures and maybe many more, that are processed by the micro. There is a field-switch programmable PAL option I'm researching. Though it would be a dedicated circuit with a restricted # of I/O variables, it would be digital, controllable and as accurate as a micro and anyone could build it ... no Micro, just dip switch programming like the first digital computers ... but not really ... just circuit sets.

Keep it up 7imix,

Greg

[cikljamas]

Hi guys ! I am again with you, i spent few days on the mountain (snow joys),
and now i can continue with our (your) job...I heard New York is under snow
attack, and according Farmhands reports it seems Australia suffered from
rain diseases, in Bulgaria is over 20 degrees Celsius (highest temperature in
last 100 years), Earth is sick, i hope we are going to survive...

I see 7imix made on the board his variation of gmeast circuit, now i am tired
and soon i am going to go to bad, but tomorrow i am gonna finally give a try
gmeast circuit on my board and see what i could observe without nano (probably nothing), but anyway, maybe i could notice something just using instruments that i already have (maybe i could reach the moon with my
bicycle too ?!??!?)

Guys, you deserve to accomplish this task, you really deserve it !!!
Farmhand, thanks for your great effort, there is one book that i am going to
print for sure, from one of your links, i think it is about Donald Smith projects...
Thanks for that link !
I just admire how much of your precious time you guys dedicated to
this thread, and that is why i am saying : you really deserve it !!!

Thank you all, once more, and forgive me if i thanked you again !

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I managed to highjack this wireles connection again, I have a drawing below of how I think it could work maybe not sure about the recovery chokes uH value yet. It's just an idea .

Sucahyo I miss read your solar question, I get 17-18 volts if it is not raining too hard , the regular cheapo charge controller gets pulled down to the battery voltage, if the bank is a bit low. Cheapo controller raises the voltage to pulse when almost charged only.

Cheers

P.S. I almost forgot, we might be able to parallel the neg end of the coils and use only one fet and pulse generator, not sure if it would work, and no chance of phase tinkering, but it could be worth a try. Then there is always series connecting the three and pulsing as one not sure about that either. Using an op-amp we can pulse the three coils with the one op-amp can't we ?

[gmeast]

diode

Here is the circuit I used in the video.



I am not using a recovery diode. I haven't figured out exactly where to place it yet. I'll look at your circuit diagram again.

Hi 7imix,

You need to get rid of that 5.6KOhm resistor at Vcc. It makes things 'squishy' as far as the self charge thing goes. The diode goes from the drain, across your coil to Vcc. In actuality, there is a choke between the diode and and Vcc which we have discussed.

I know you probably have that 5.6kOhm there to protect the MOSFET from overload ... and that's a good idea, but you miss out on seeing the ring being sent to the top of the battery.

My suggestion is that you temporarily unhook the drain and put your scope on the gate and dial in your gate pulse-width. Once you have it nice and short and stable, unhook the gate, reconnect the drain and reapply the gate signal keeping an eye on the shape of your power pulse. Feel the Mosfet's temperature and power down if you smell burning flesh ... really. If you can get a 2usec to 2.5usec 'on' pulse somewhere between 1,000Hz and 40,000Hz, then the Mosfet should not even get much above room temperature.

Then you can observe the BEMF being sent to the battery's top. Hopefully these will eventually be longitudinal waves of some sort.

And remember, if your scope ground is on battery-, then your pulse is from battery+ rail to battery- rail, with the short part of the pulse on the battery- rail providing you're using an N-Channel Mosfet. Some people insist on seeing a (+) going pulse, but it ain't that way and that's why their Mosfets get hot ... they're PW is backwards ... now the gate pulse IS (+) going.

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I'm out of the game for a bit, half the state almost is under water, I estimate we've had meters of rain, i'll probably be floodbound soon so no town for me. My nano scope is likely stuck (floodbound). I won't order anthing untill I think it has a chance of getting through. I don't have op-amps yet, but they arealready coming.

7imix, i'm spewin I can't watch you're latest video. They cant fix the landline here, not possible yet. Darn wireless broadband is slow and drops out.

I worked out what was wrong with my parallel fet board, it was the cd4001chip, I think I damaged it and some others by pulsing a coil and not removing the spike (no load no neon). Similar to SSG when disconnected. I think a diode will prevent it from happening again. I now get a nice neat trace, it works good, though two is probably the limit my gate charge has gone down to just 10 volts. I had to use "steering" diodes. I probably should use some resistors instead. But it works. With three fets driven from one pulse generaror I think I would have to go to the three transitor driver above,to keep the gate charge to over 10 volts.

I have some 4011's coming with some op-amps too if they make it through the floods.

Gmeast, I agree about the thick insulation and tape I would have thought closer coupling would be better too. But I'll try not to use too much tape, it won't be easy i'm a tape nut.

I really like that vehicle solar setup, I'm a solar fan too I think it is very hard to beat, well I did three weeks ago, before all this rain. I still am, my setup is performing a lot better than I expected, I just need more panels.

Anyway as soon as I get reliable internet, I will order some wire. That is my greatest hold up at the moment.

cikljamas, glad to hear you had a little holiday, i've never seen real snow, the closest I come to seeing snow is when I scrape the frost from my old freezer.

Cheers

[7imix]

Hi 7imix,

You need to get rid of that 5.6KOhm resistor at Vcc. It makes things 'squishy' as far as the self charge thing goes. The diode goes from the drain, across your coil to Vcc. In actuality, there is a choke between the diode and and Vcc which we have discussed.

I know you probably have that 5.6kOhm there to protect the MOSFET from overload ... and that's a good idea, but you miss out on seeing the ring being sent to the top of the battery.

My suggestion is that you temporarily unhook the drain and put your scope on the gate and dial in your gate pulse-width. Once you have it nice and short and stable, unhook the gate, reconnect the drain and reapply the gate signal keeping an eye on the shape of your power pulse. Feel the Mosfet's temperature and power down if you smell burning flesh ... really. If you can get a 2usec to 2.5usec 'on' pulse somewhere between 1,000Hz and 40,000Hz, then the Mosfet should not even get much above room temperature.

Then you can observe the BEMF being sent to the battery's top. Hopefully these will eventually be longitudinal waves of some sort.

And remember, if your scope ground is on battery-, then your pulse is from battery+ rail to battery- rail, with the short part of the pulse on the battery- rail providing you're using an N-Channel Mosfet. Some people insist on seeing a (+) going pulse, but it ain't that way and that's why their Mosfets get hot ... they're PW is backwards ... now the gate pulse IS (+) going.

Later

Yes, the resistor was there to limit the current to 20-30mA for testing and I had planned on removing it.

It seems strange to me that the current through the coil is on for most of the duty cycle and then off for the pulse width... As the current flows through the coil the back emf starts to build up... However perhaps the back emf goes through the recovery diode and choke. Are you SURE it's supposed to be an n type MOSFET?

My MOSFET has not gotten hot... Of course I am intentionally limiting the current... My MOSFET can do up to 6 amps I think. Wow, that will really be something.

[7imix]

Good luck farmhand! On the solstice and right after we had biblical flood type rains... Couldn't make it through the driveway because of flooding for a day or so... But it died down and got sunny again. I can't imagine what it would be like if it hadn't stopped.

I will be making another video shortly with the diode and choke in place, and more amps through my coil. Last night I added another 126 windings to ghetto coil. I think I really need an iron core for this replication, but it is fun to experiment with. Right now it has approximately 200 feet of awg 22 on it.

[gmeast]

on time

Yes, the resistor was there to limit the current to 20-30mA for testing and I had planned on removing it.

It seems strange to me that the current through the coil is on for most of the duty cycle and then off for the pulse width... As the current flows through the coil the back emf starts to build up... However perhaps the back emf goes through the recovery diode and choke. Are you SURE it's supposed to be an n type MOSFET?

My MOSFET has not gotten hot... Of course I am intentionally limiting the current... My MOSFET can do up to 6 amps I think. Wow, that will really be something.

Hi 7imix,

If you use battery- as scope ground, and the top of your coil is permanently tied to battery+, then when the Mosfet is "off" you will reading the battery+ on your scope ... it's just like looking directly at battery+ ... because there is no voltage drop across the coil because the mosfet is turned "off". It is only when your mosfet is turned "on" that THAT end (the negative end) of the coil is pulled to battery- by the mosfet conducting current through the coil. And like I said before, this is all assuming you are using an N-Channel Mosfet and using battery- as you probe ground. So that being the case, your coil/drain node sits at battery+ when NOT being pulsed.

Later

[7imix]

Hi 7imix,

If you use battery- as scope ground, and the top of your coil is permanently tied to battery+, then when the Mosfet is "off" you will reading the battery+ on your scope ... it's just like looking directly at battery+ ... because there is no voltage drop across the coil because the mosfet is turned "off". It is only when your mosfet is turned "on" that THAT end (the negative end) of the coil is pulled to battery- by the mosfet conducting current through the coil. And like I said before, this is all assuming you are using an N-Channel Mosfet and using battery- as you probe ground. So that being the case, your coil/drain node sits at battery+ when NOT being pulsed.

Later

Thank you. That helped me to understand what is going on much better.

[gmeast]

you're welcome

Thank you. That helped me to understand what is going on much better.

You're most welcome. It gets a little confusing sometimes when the configuration is actually using battery+ as the 'common' connection instead of battery-. These particular efforts to somehow replicate the hex controller performance is also a battery+ common-connected circuit ... the commons of the coils go to battery+ as well as the diode (via the choke) ... and things are 'pulsed' to battery- (otherwise considered 'ground').

So now if you pre-set up your gate for a short PW before hooking up the coil/drain node, you should be pretty safe when you hook up the coil/drain connection with that resistor out of there ... just keep an eye on everything. If you can, read the current draw the way you WERE doing it and compare against what was just discussed and pointed out.

Good luck. Later

[Farmhand]

Good luck farmhand! On the solstice and right after we had biblical flood type rains... Couldn't make it through the driveway because of flooding for a day or so... But it died down and got sunny again. I can't imagine what it would be like if it hadn't stopped.

I will be making another video shortly with the diode and choke in place, and more amps through my coil. Last night I added another 126 windings to ghetto coil. I think I really need an iron core for this replication, but it is fun to experiment with. Right now it has approximately 200 feet of awg 22 on it.

Thank 7imix, I'm lucky I live on a mountain 276 meter above sea level. Only one building got some rising ground water up through the floor because it is just a couple of meters below the ridgeline. I feel sorry for the lowlanders.

I have made a dicovery with the shielding, I took a large solid aluminium cup and placed it upside down over my coils to completely cover them and the charge rate increased a fair bit, interesting, it must be restricting the radiation and forcing it to remain local. If I move the cup so one side gets close to one coil the trace gets really interesting.

Anyway I thought I would mention that I have noticed that some coils behave a lot different to others,you will notice that the current draw will be much easier to control with a core of some kind other than air, carbon rod behaves similar to air, if I try to swap from iron core coil to air the current draw is crazy, I have to retune, tune back. The inductance/capacitance plays a big role so I am very pleased to see you include that in your drawing. I wish i had an inductance meter. I just guess, by looking at coils of roughly known inductance.

The recovery in these setups is basically SSG, I would risk to say that the desulfator circuit I use is a solid state fully tunable mosfet switched SSG type device in principal that is, it has a "h" waveform or an unclamped inductive waveform shape. If you look at the data sheet for a IRFPG50 and go down to the graphs you will see the unclamped inductive waveform is similar to the SSG waveform.

Rain has stopped sun is peeking so I have ouside work now, lots.

Cheers all

[gmeast]

rain

Thank 7imix, I'm lucky I live on a mountain 276 meter above sea level. Only one building got some rising ground water up through the floor because it is just a couple of meters below the ridgeline. I feel sorry for the lowlanders.

I have made a dicovery with the shielding, I took a large solid aluminium cup and placed it upside down over my coils to completely cover them and the charge rate increased a fair bit, interesting, it must be restricting the radiation and forcing it to remain local. If I move the cup so one side gets close to one coil the trace gets really interesting.

Anyway I thought I would mention that I have noticed that some coils behave a lot different to others,you will notice that the current draw will be much easier to control with a core of some kind other than air, carbon rod behaves similar to air, if I try to swap from iron core coil to air the current draw is crazy, I have to retune, tune back. The inductance/capacitance plays a big role so I am very pleased to see you include that in your drawing. I wish i had an inductance meter. I just guess, by looking at coils of roughly known inductance.

The recovery in these setups is basically SSG, I would risk to say that the desulfator circuit I use is a solid state fully tunable mosfet switched SSG type device in principal that is, it has a "h" waveform or an unclamped inductive waveform shape. If you look at the data sheet for a IRFPG50 and go down to the graphs you will see the unclamped inductive waveform is similar to the SSG waveform.

Rain has stopped sun is peeking so I have ouside work now, lots.

Cheers all

Hey Farmhand,

Looks like you might be drying out soon, hey?

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Gmeast and all, Unforunately,now it is raining again, the closest major town will be cut off and its airport closed by 5 days time. All I have to do is protect my stock from hungry people.

I got some bees wax, a very small step for me. Could be two or three weeks before the mail flows again. I'll try to get somebody already going to town to get some parts for me, so I don't have to risk getting stuck in the city.

Thank the heavens for this wireless connection, and the person lending it to me. At least I can stay up to date.

Cheers all.

[cikljamas]

Hi, guys !
Farmhand, what is going on in Queensland, mother Earth went mad ?
Glad to see you live on the hill, good for you, you have electricity too thanks
to your electronic skills ? You see, that is the best advantage of this watkykjy
device, energy independence that we all dream of...
Your desulfator is great, i use him now as the main battery charger for big
batteries instead of bingo, and stingo is for little ones, and bingo is for back
up, if i broke 4001, as you did several of them few days ago...

I made this Gregs stuff on the board and i do not know why but i can not
tune it to work well at all, this PULSE WIDTH 5 k pot. is one that determinates
current drain, FREQUENCY and OFFSET VOLTAGE pots do not make any
difference when i turn them in what ever position...Yesterday i got several
times 50 % efficiency in self charging mode which is bad result, but some
result at least, and today i tried some other adjustments and i changed
several transformers but all it happened is from 50 to 200 mAmps current
drains on the input,and on the output one big 0 !

To pity !

Maybe i should try to adjust that circuit to be more similar to 7imixs one ?
Maybe it is all about wrong transformers, who knows ?
Maybe it would be interesting to here from you guys who did it successfully,
what efficiency you achieved with this circuit ?

Farmhand, in thoughts with you !
Take care !

[gmeast]

circuit

Hi, guys !
Farmhand, what is going on in Queensland, mother Earth went mad ?
Glad to see you live on the hill, good for you, you have electricity too thanks
to your electronic skills ? You see, that is the best advantage of this watkykjy
device, energy independence that we all dream of................................................ .................................................. ..................
I made this Gregs stuff on the board and i do not know why but i can not
tune it to work well at all, this PULSE WIDTH 5 k pot. is one that determinates
current drain, FREQUENCY and OFFSET VOLTAGE pots do not make any
difference when i turn them in what ever position...Yesterday i got several
times 50 % efficiency in self charging mode which is bad result, but some
result at least, and today i tried some other adjustments and i changed
several transformers but all it happened is from 50 to 200 mAmps current
drains on the input,and on the output one big 0 !

To pity !

Maybe i should try to adjust that circuit to be more similar to 7imixs one ?
Maybe it is all about wrong transformers, who knows ?
Maybe it would be interesting to here from you guys who did it successfully,
what efficiency you achieved with this circuit ?

Farmhand, in thoughts with you !
Take care !

Hi cikljamas,

The circuit I posted was, as I said, 'EXACTLY" what I made to operate the 'logic-level' mosfet I am/was using. You must be able to see the signal on a scope in order to know how big or small your pulse is. The 'off set' is only to optimize the gate voltage so that I don't overdrive the fet gate and only applies to my circuit. I am transitioning to a standard gate drive circuit so I don't need the 5K pot ... so nothing to adjust there.

You asked in one of your posts which you should get first ... the transformer or a scope ... get an oscilloscope ... it is important to be able to see these things.

Anyway, thanks for the PM. Best wishes friend for a good start to the new year.

Greg