This is it !

[Farmhand]

Hi cikljamas, Good to hear of your results with the circuit and that you worked out your diode problem, it's things like that that frustrate me sometime's the little things I can't see properly.

I hate to say it again my friend but if you had a scope you could troubleshoot most circuit problems much quicker. But we learn tricks like we do the hard way still.

So much time , so much nerves , so close, but still so far !
And if i am wrong nobody happier than me !

Haha I've only just started, I don't fear the long road. I welcome the challenge.

I ask myself often how Watkykjy can monitor this thread (suppose that
he does monitor it) and leave us without any support whatsoever....

Shame on him !

Well I don't feel like that, i'm sure he has his reasons. Whatever the reasons be, they don't apply to me, so I just don't think about it.

The things i've learned for myself since the begining of this thread are much more valuable to me than if he had given me all the code and drawings he had. Maybe the way he did it is just one way, which is why I never usually just replicate things exactly, I make things the way I can to suit my needs.

I havn't actually got much out of the video except the idea and the choke and we don't even know the specs of that. Most of what i've learned is from Bobs Info, Stans Theory, and most of all, Tesla's Theory and the principals he revealed.

You guys may have a point to prove, but i'm in it for the knowledge and understanding, I have to keep trying hard to get that, no one can just impart it upon me.

There is no one to blame for me not learning, only people to thank for helping me to understand. And all of you help with that funnily enough.

Some posts way back by you and Greg triggered something in me that has made me very determined and inspired. I wish I had learned electronics when I was younger, it's difficult to understand. But I am addicted now.

Cheers

[7imix]

Farmhand I think we have an advantage learning electronics by experimenting rather than in school. I only started learning a year ago and it is coming so intuitively to me since I approached it by trying to visualize phenomena first instead of starting with math. Now I am starting to learn the math and it is coming easily and the math really isn't that hard.

V = IR will get somebody a really long way by itself...

[Farmhand]

Another Driver

This one seems to be just as effective. Only a few hours testing. The opto's have good gain I think, 500 from memory.

Driver drawing
http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...201.bmp?psid=1

Driver picture
http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...007.JPG?psid=1

Unattached PWM pulses
http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...002.JPG?psid=1

Recovery waveform
http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...003.JPG?psid=1

Secondary shorted at medium power with frequency tuned to consume the deadtime.
http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

Cheers

[cikljamas]

Farmhand and 7imix !

I agree with you 100 %, i just have sometimes transformations in me
like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde after something disturbs me so much that
i lose control over myself, and in that kind of mood i am like drunk man,
and i am capable to write things like that : blame others for my own
ignorance or disability or anything else ...

So, Watkykjy, sorry, but now that i apologized give us your code and
everything that you have on your papers !

Farmhand, your are addicted ?
Than we have the same diagnose !

Cheers !

P.S. And, Farmhand i like your Australian spirit , and Scottish whisky too !
Do you do this when you drink whisky : ...I do...And its better
than this : ... So , i should use whisky more often as a medicine
in my hell hours, dont you think so instead of blaming Watkykjy for everything
including Australian biblical flood !...Sorry Watkykjy once again !
And if your concience is disturbed it might be for some good reason too !

[gmeast]

selfrightous

Farmhand and 7imix !

I agree with you 100 %, i just have sometimes transformations in me
like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde after something disturbs me so much that
i lose control over myself, and in that kind of mood i am like drunk man,
and i am capable to write things like that : blame others for my own
ignorance or disability or anything else ...

So, Watkykjy, sorry, but now that i apologized give us your code and
everything that you have on your papers !

Farmhand, your are addicted ?
Than we have the same diagnose !

Cheers !

P.S. And, Farmhand i like your Australian spirit , and Scottish whisky too !
Do you do this when you drink whisky : ...I do...And its better
than this : ... So , i should use whisky more often as a medicine
in my hell hours, dont you think so instead of blaming Watkykjy for everything
including Australian biblical flood !...Sorry Watkykjy once again !
And if your concience is disturbed it might be for some good reason too !

Hi all ... as if there are many here,

I do know this ... watkykjy1 nor anyone else has any obligation whatsoever to help anyone with anything. Bob Boyce is likewise under no obligation. That would NORMALLY be the case. However, when people join these forums, participate and declare their efforts for the benefit of all humanity, that obligates you on some level to keep with the program and follow through.

Am I the only one that reacts with disdain when someone says "... and if you were lucky enough to get a Hex Controller then you can get these 'effect' too ... " EFFECTS my rosy butt. It's more than effects.

Re B.B. So here's the release (teasing) of a magnificent technology ... the "Holy Grail" (that is a self charging system, closed loop, its own batter and nothing else) ... then to pull back and declare ' ... I'm not making this available ... it's too dangerous for all you idiots to be exposed to ... I'm so self righteous I am going to save you from yourselves ... " ... in effect.

That IS self righteous and arrogant by some standards. And on that point: I am NOT surprised at the level of support (NON support) from the big man himself nor from watkykjy (he thinks he's running from something). I do have some insight into B.B.

Short account:
I had just joined a hydrogen cell forum on Yahoo Groups. I forget which one exactly, but it apparently was moderated by Boyce. I was excited and enthusiastic about sharing results I had achieved with Smack stuff (WOW! ... that guy's all over the place) and I accidentally used the abbreviation "HHO" and I was immediately banned from the forum. After that, several brown nosing member proceeded to email me and and give me s*h*i*t for 'breaking a rule ... saying "HHO". Then the great Bob Boyce himself privately emailed me and chewed my ass out .. not once, but three times!. Then to my surprise, I received an email inviting me to "please come back to the forum ...". But at that point I was already DONE with hydrogen cells, but I 'say' and 'put in print' the abbreviation "HHO" at every opportunity ... like right here. Oh by the way BB "HHO" in quotes doesn't count.

So, that was my first and last experience with B.B. If I didn't sincerely believe that '... an advanced materials toroidal core in combination with short, rapid pulsing produced COP>1 results', I would have nothing to do with this project primarily because of a certain association.

There ... that's MY 'Jekyll and Hyde'. I'm sure this rant shoots down the possibility of any meaningful discourse with that man... ever ... and I don't really care anyhow.

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, Glad your're Ok, I was starting to become concerned not hearing from you.

I do know this ... watkykjy1 nor anyone else has any obligation whatsoever to help anyone with anything. Bob Boyce is likewise under no obligation. That would NORMALLY be the case. However, when people join these forums, participate and declare their efforts for the benefit of all humanity, that obligates you on some level to keep with the program and follow through.

I agree.

Am I the only one that reacts with disdain when someone says "... and if you were lucky enough to get a Hex Controller then you can get these 'effect' too ... " EFFECTS my rosy butt. It's more than effects.

No you're not the only one, my first reaction is the same, the hex controller is not needed, watkykjy probably can't help with doing it without the Micro's anyway. All he has done is build a Boyce design Hex controller and Toroidal transformer, his own contribution is only a small piece of simple code and maybe the choke which Bob already uses anyway.

Re B.B. So here's the release (teasing) of a magnificent technology ... the "Holy Grail" (that is a self charging system, closed loop, its own batter and nothing else) ... then to pull back and declare ' ... I'm not making this available ... it's too dangerous for all you idiots to be exposed to ... I'm so self righteous I am going to save you from yourselves ... " ... in effect.

Yes I agree.

So, that was my first and last experience with B.B. If I didn't sincerely believe that '... an advanced materials toroidal core in combination with short, rapid pulsing produced COP>1 results', I would have nothing to do with this project primarily because of a certain association.

I'm sorry about your experience with that yahoo group, but maybe it's for the best, seems like they don't like HHO, what is the explaination for that ? Seems really wierd.

HHO only stands for the two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom that are separated from each water molecule when split by electrolysis, doesn't it ?

Anyway I am with you all the way Greg. It'll take more than some strange happenings and a few computer infections to stop me. I build my own computers from componants, I always have, even my first one. So I have a hard drive arrangement that make's it very difficult for me to actually lose data, locating it is sometimes a problem but it is still there.

I have a Opteron 165, socket 939 computer processor, which when combined with the other choice componants I have I can overclock from it's stock 1.8Ghz to 3.4 Ghz which is almost double the frequency, with only Air cooling and it's stable, ( I have it stored in the cupboard ) to achieve this almost all of the memory timing parameters must be tweaked along with most everthing else. I have no training except what I have taught myself. I did it with two different motherboards just to prove to myself it was possible.

My computer adventure's tell me. We don't need them ! As long as we understand what is happening and why, we can do anything we want, within reason, of course it must be possible before we are able to do it. But if it is possible we can.

Just think of our toroids as Tesla Toroids with only three primaries and one secondary. Thats what I do.

Cheers

[cikljamas]

Greg, after your last post, and my last post all i could do is this :
YouTube - Jimmy Cliff - Wonderful World Beautiful People

That is why every good man in this world is so precious !
So, this thread is reserved just for good guys !
Bad guys are not welcome !
Good guys for your goodness !

Steinbeck said at the end of third quarter of East of Eden
something that i never can forget : When good man dies
there is huge emptiness that he left behind himself, and
other people feel that emptiness in their hearts, and when
bad man dies there is some kind of relief instead of feelings
of emptiness in the hearts of people...
When man dies all that other people remember about him
is just this : Was he good or bad, were his deeds good or bad,
nothing else counts !

Cheers !

[Farmhand]

OK, Greg I noticed with my CMOS PWM sometime's at very high freqency with the original driver there was a problem because the output from the PWM became reduced to what looked like 5 volts, this made the MOSFET not switch properly and heat up "a lot". Even with only moderate power which is usually fine. As I tuned the frequency up the circuit jumps to a much higher frequency all of a sudden and sometimes the PWM output voltage dropped for some reason.

Does the op-amp circuit do that ?

I think with the PWM output triggering an opto or a transistor base to pulse the mosfet gate from the rail, the drop in voltage from the PWM won't be a problem. Not sure

Any idea how much resistance can I use or should use on the opto's led or a small transistor base and still have it function correctly with 5 volts ?

1k seems to work is that too much should I use only 100 ohms? Would the PWM ruin the led if I use nothing or just use more power ? It's working but I can't decide if it would be reliable without testing for a long time. We could use a regulator and have exactly 10v pulsing the gate instead of the rail voltage or Vcc whatever. That makes sense to me.

Maybe a logic level mosfet for the last part of the gate driver for the main mosfet will work, I think I have a really tiny one.

Anyway i'm convinced that the drop in PWM output voltage at really high frequency or if the supply voltage or PWM output is too low to begin with, is what causes most heat in the mosfet because of improper switching.

The ratings of the mosfets suggest they can switch considerable current, they shouldn't get hot with not much current.

So will not using any resistor on the led of an opto ruin it instantly or eventually ? Or just cause more power use ? Same question for transistor.

Sorry for all the questions but this is important, I need an opinion to rationalise against my thoughts.

Cheers

Oh and here's link to a desufator vid that I uploaded to youtube last night, for the unsuspecting public to stumble on. I might aswell slip a link in here too. YouTube - AlternateFarmhand1's Channel

[gmeast]

Hi Greg, Glad your're Ok, I was starting to become concerned not hearing from you. .................................................. ................
I'm sorry about your experience with that yahoo group, but maybe it's for the best, seems like they don't like HHO, what is the explaination for that ? Seems really wierd.

HHO only stands for the two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom that are separated from each water molecule when split by electrolysis, doesn't it ?

.................................................. ...............
Cheers

Hi Farmhand,

Oh, I didn't know you were unaware of the "HHO" issue. Seems B.B. decided to try and copyright the word HHO or maybe he did. So seems like for a while there he was on a petty mission to crush anyone who uttered "HHO". Maybe he finally realized what a childish campaign that was. Maybe that's why I was invited back ... others realized it too.

On the digital front ... I got over my first hurtle regarding component selection. I was able to settle on a $0.65 precision digital component as the heart of the system. Also, I will need an amplified opto like you posted a picture of in-circuit as a MOSFET interface. My system is low power on a 5VDC regulator. I Also will need a 30MHz oscillator/clock ... hopefully on a 5VDC rail also. System rail will be 12VDC - 15VDC of course. I also will need to move from the 'linear' 5VDC fixed regulator I'm using for test to a 'switcher' for power efficiency reasons.

If you gots any insight on that stuff ... please post.

Later

[Farmhand]

Cow on the roof

You guys want a laugh- check this out

Flood-hit residents return home to rooftop cow

There has also been a fox riding a floating car tyre, a green frog riding on the back of a brown snake while it swam to high ground, and a snake and a lizard riding a piece of styrofoam together down there. But the cow on the roof is the best one i've seen yet.

Unfortunately the flood forced the dingo's closer to me and I nearly caught one trying to steal one of my chickens. I'm glad I didn't actually get very close to him, things may have turned nasty for both of us. But he knows i'm here now. He'll have be a lot trickier next time.

What you say above Greg, sounds totally awesome, i'll see what I can find out about those things.

Cheers

[7imix]

On the digital front ... I got over my first hurtle regarding component selection. I was able to settle on a $0.65 precision digital component as the heart of the system. Also, I will need an amplified opto like you posted a picture of in-circuit as a MOSFET interface. My system is low power on a 5VDC regulator. I Also will need a 30MHz oscillator/clock ... hopefully on a 5VDC rail also. System rail will be 12VDC - 15VDC of course. I also will need to move from the 'linear' 5VDC fixed regulator I'm using for test to a 'switcher' for power efficiency reasons.

what component did you choose? I'd like to read up on it. I'm pretty sure I have a 30mhz crystal.. Pulled out of some old gear. Would it be possible to clock it even higher? I'd like to learn how to program whatever you have chosen.

A while back I wrote an Arduino patch that got pretty high pulse rates... Up to 300mhz if I remember correctly? Could be 30. I'm going to dig it out and run it again and see.

Farmhand, I thought of a solution to the peak voltage of the pulse going down in higher frequencies, because I have had that problem before: two NOT gates in a row. That will peg it either on or off but not in between. Could get some really nice sharp cliffs out of really fast logic level gates too.

Also, since you have an analog scope, tune it to zero volts before starting. That way you will be able to see any dc offset in the signal. I have seen quite a few nice pulse circuits that tend to have some dc bias at very high frequencies.

What optocoupler are you guys using? I can look into what you are supposed to do to drive the optocoupler led.

[Farmhand]

Clock

You mean a clock chip like this one below. This one is not as fast as you would like, I haven't found any that quick yet. Not sure even if these are what you mean.

This one's marked $1.95 in the catalogue i have, but i'm sure that is too expensive.
CD4040B pdf, CD4040B description, CD4040B datasheets, CD4040B view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

CD4520B pdf, CD4520B description, CD4520B datasheets, CD4520B view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

7imix

4n25 opto's. I have to go out for a few hours, till later.

[Farmhand]

Farmhand, I thought of a solution to the peak voltage of the pulse going down in higher frequencies, because I have had that problem before: two NOT gates in a row. That will peg it either on or off but not in between. Could get some really nice sharp cliffs out of really fast logic level gates too.

Also, since you have an analog scope, tune it to zero volts before starting. That way you will be able to see any dc offset in the signal. I have seen quite a few nice pulse circuits that tend to have some dc bias at very high frequencies.

Umm What are NOT gates ? Yes I think I understand what you're saying about the bias, i'll have to have a look at that.

I was looking at this CD4047 chip, it's in the inverter drawing cikljamas showed me ( it looks very usefull and simple to use for a lot of different purposes. It has an oscillator output (full frequency) and two alternating outputs (1/2 frequency at 180* ), I will be getting some of those for sure.

Thanks

[7imix]

Not gate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverter_(logic_gate)

[Farmhand]

Hi 7imix, Ok NOT gates, excelent idea, yes that would work, WIKI shows a hex buffer. Yes things do start to get very interesting when some of the mystery leaves the chips. Hopefully soon i'll be able to use these chips and know why this gets connected to that, I see a pattern forming.

Ahah now that I read that WIKI, I see it says that the driver setup I used in this drawing below is in fact a "NOT gate" or a "logic gate" made from complimentary transistors , "TTL". Sweet. One resitor and one transistor is "RTL". Now this is starting to become a lot of fun.

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...et3.jpg?psid=1

It appears that i'm making advances I didn't even know I was making, this is starting to make sense, there are NOT, NOR, OR, AND & NAND Gate's I see so far, boy oh boy so much to learn.

OK at a quick glance I see inverting buffers "CD4049" and non inverting buffers "CD 4050". A hex buffer would provide three sets of two Gate's I imagine. I think Greg may have tried to explain to me why he had a buffer in his op-amp setup, my appoligies Greg, Now I understand I'll try not to look back at my ignorance and look forward instead.

From wiki

An inverter circuit outputs a voltage representing the opposite logic-level to its input. Inverters can be constructed using a single NMOS transistor or a single PMOS transistor coupled with a resistor. Since this 'resistive-drain' approach uses only a single type of transistor, it can be fabricated at low cost. However, because current flows through the resistor in one of the two states, the resistive-drain configuration is disadvantaged for power consumption and processing speed. Alternatively, inverters can be constructed using two complimentary transistors in a CMOS configuration. This configuration greatly reduces power consumption since one of the transistors is always off in both logic states. Processing speed can also be improved due to the relatively low resistance compared to the NMOS-only or PMOS-only type devices. Inverters can also be constructed with Bipolar Junction Transistors (BJT) in either a resistor-transistor logic (RTL) or a transistor-transistor logic (TTL) configuration.

Digital electronics circuits operate at fixed voltage levels corresponding to a logical 0 or 1 (see Binary). An inverter circuit serves as the basic logic gate to swap between those two voltage levels. Implementation determines the actual voltage, but common levels include (0, +5V) for TTL circuits