This is it !

[gmeast]

Vegemite

Hi Greg, Excelent, that all sounds very good, no no one is going to use any
micro's haha. We were just looking at some code to work out what he was
doing, for a sequence.

What do you think about that sequence, excelent idea with the fourth phase
you have. If we do it like that it will create another frequency.

I think a good way to try it would be at 21Khz or 10.5Khz three in sequence like
Pulse pulse pulse delay pulse pulse pulse delay. Then every cycle
of three would be a frequency aswell, don't ask me what it would be though.
Maybe 1/3 of the frequency used for each coil. It would be like sets of three pulses. Awesome.

I wound the third coil, now i just need to space and wax. Looks good. Full.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...003.JPG?psid=1

Cheers

Wouldn't you know a Vegemite jar would be the perfect size as a jig for this thing?

Anyway, from what I can discern, it seems as though the timing is equal for each coil. I think once someone can fire off a UCC27321P driver chip we'll have a better idea about pulse width. I think it will be as W said in the video:

" ... note that the pulses are a little further apart but notice how small they are so that the duty cycle has come down from somewhere about, I think it was about eight or ten percent, down to around zero point three percent."

This is very 'key' info'! as well as:

" ... now when we do our power generation, we do not need to do that. All we need is we need a very fast rising field and a very fast collapsing field, and we need to have as many of them as humanly possible and obviously without saturating our core ...".

If someone has some insight into what frequency W pulsed at, that would be valuable to the effort. The 3 frequencies for the 'cell' application are well known, but I'm not sure if they are approaching saturation in those applications. According to the video showing the gate signal scope shots, I think I can see that the time scale is set to 50usec/division ... does anyone else see it differently?

Anyway I'm building the new comparator now, will test, and maybe hook up a UCC27321P driver chip and see if I can fire my IRF540Z's without frying either FET or Chip.

Oh and:

Hi all

Originally Posted by gmeast View Post
... they would inject "you need to be around 0.3% Duty Cycle and around 2.5usec pulse width" ... and off the cuff advice like that.

I am not competent to offer any advice, but I feel that he,who first posted about "0.3% Duty Cycle" may have made a mistake of the kind of a typing error.
He may have meant to say:
"approx. 30% ON-time per cycle"
which is the same as 0.3
which would again be the same as saying "approx. two thirds OFF-time per cycle".

Again: I think it could have been a simple communications error (but that just is some gut feeling of mine and I may be wrong).

This wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. Sorry if it sounded that way.

Later

[gmeast]

winding

Hi Greg,
.................................................. ..................................................
I wound the third coil, now i just need to space and wax. Looks good. Full.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...003.JPG?psid=1

Cheers

OH MAN!

That looks just stupendous! Now I have to get cracking on MY primaries ... I haven't even wound one yet. Maybe this weekend will see some of that ... or all maybe ... gots to have somethin' to test the pulser on don't I?

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, did you wind your primaries yet ?

Not sure if you caught my edit so i'll link again, this scope shot and video clip.
This thing is truely wierd straight off the bat. I set the dual board to pulse two coils at what my DMM says is 4.3 Khz then set the other board to pulse the third coil at 4.4 Khz. And when I start charging a partially discharged battery 12.4v the current draw starts at 750 Ma then drops quickly at first till about 10 minutes later it's at 455Ma the charge batt 12.9v when it gets to 14.8 the draw is down to 300 Ma. Sweet.

I can't wait to get your setup built and working, I mean I can wait, but I can't wait.

Anyway scope shot and video clip. Incase you missed em.

YouTube - Three.wmv

http://9xfdag.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

Cheers

[FRC]

Nice

Sorry I do not really understand what you are doing here. But those are nice
Joule ringer type scope shots Farmhand. You must be getting somewhere with
all this if you get that effect.

FRC

[gmeast]

replicating

Sorry I do not really understand what you are doing here. But those are nice
Joule ringer type scope shots Farmhand. You must be getting somewhere with
all this if you get that effect.

FRC

Hi FRC,

We are replicating watkykjy1's self charging setup demonstrated using Bob Boyce's Hex Controller except without using a Micro to sequence stuff.

YouTube - OU Charging effect of the hex controller
YouTube - Battery charging with the hex controller (1 of 4)
YouTube - Battery charging with the hex controller (2 of 4)
YouTube - Battery charging with the hex controller (3 of 4)
YouTube - Battery charging with the hex controller (4 of 4)

We're trying to replicate using as many of the exact components as possible ... except, as I said, the Micro.

Thanks. Later

[7imix]

Beautiful shot of the toroid, farmhand. Nice scope shot too.

Greg, looking forward to you trying those MOSFET drivers! I hope to buy some of those soon.

[gmeast]

drivers

Beautiful shot of the toroid, farmhand. Nice scope shot too.

Greg, looking forward to you trying those MOSFET drivers! I hope to buy some of those soon.

I certainly am looking forward to it too. I need to make sure of the compatibility with my SN74LS stuff. Of course they interface something like this (or these) with the ATMEL ATmega processor used on the Hex Controller ... it can execute 20MHz @ 4.5V-5.5V supply.

If anyone can offer some 'heads up' advice (if warranted) re: the UCC27321P driver chip and SN74LS family of devices ... much appreciated. I just need to get some things going with some 'grunt' parts initially.

Later

[gmeast]

Hi thatsthat

@Farmhand,

Thank for the warm greeting.

I'm a digital electronics and programming guy. The analog electronics I'll leave to you guys, as it seems you got it sorted out pretty much.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...
I'm curious to see what the "analog" pulsing circuit looks like that removes the need for fancy micro controller etc.

All the best with your projects.

Cheers.

Hi thatsthat,

Yeah welcome here. Well in the beginning, we were talking analog, but we all knew in the end we are pulsing a MOSFET in a PWM mode ... and that's really digital.

What I've done is built a digital PWM based on a counter model that resets itself on 'borrow out' or 'carry out' as most of them do. A bunch of digital comparators and dip switches sit on the counter outputs and latch on an equal=to condition and fire a FET for 1/2 period of a clock pulse. The PW is determined by the clock frequency, and the pulse period is determined by the length of the counter's 'word' ... period between carry/borrow (overflow/underflow). I am able to cascade counters and comparators for the number of 'phases' and pauses desired. It's very generic and at the moment I can fire a FET at 90KHz and PW<0.5usec ... with only an Op-Amp PWM as the clock and a dumb counter. The pulse clock should be variable within a range. So it's a building-block approach to sequencing a firing order for the FETs onto the three toroid windings.

That's the 'verbal block diagram' guys of what I've been up to. Got to get back to building/installing a drain system for a new bank of washers at a laundromat.

Later

[Farmhand]

Thanks Guys for your comments, but I couldn't have got this far without your help.
And I probably would not have attempted a project like this on my own. But i'm
very happy I did.

So thanks again fella's. I think we're getting there. I'm seeing some very
promising charging to a second battery, even with this crude setup for pulsing I have going here.
The frequencies like to stay locked together, like Bob says. Mostly because two
are the same and the other is close to begin with. I assume.

I think it's good to see what's possible with a second battery, "like normal"
that way we can get an idea of how good of a charging setup we have in
general, kind of. As a good base to work from. Gotta have a tangible base.
In my opinion. A working base circuit or arrangement, I think one we get that
the real fun will start for us Greg. Party time.

I'm going to charge a few batteries with this thing, wring some work out of it.

Oh yeah if I touch one end of a pair of pig taile LED's on 270 ohm resistors to
either secondary lead end it lights em up. Neat Maybe I can make a transmitter
with the secondary and a pancake.

Cheers

[gmeast]

one dangling detail resolved.

Thanks Guys for your comments, but I couldn't have got this far without your help.
And I probably would not have attempted a project like this on my own. But i'm
very happy I did.

So thanks again fella's. I think we're getting there. I'm seeing some very
promising charging to a second battery, even with this crude setup for pulsing I have going here.
The frequencies like to stay locked together, like Bob says. Mostly because two
are the same and the other is close to begin with. I assume.

I think it's good to see what's possible with a second battery, "like normal"
that way we can get an idea of how good of a charging setup we have in
general, kind of. As a good base to work from. Gotta have a tangible base.
In my opinion. A working base circuit or arrangement, I think one we get that
the real fun will start for us Greg. Party time.

I'm going to charge a few batteries with this thing, wring some work out of it.

Oh yeah if I touch one end of a pair of pig taile LED's on 270 ohm resistors to
either secondary lead end it lights em up. Neat Maybe I can make a transmitter
with the secondary and a pancake.

Cheers

Hi Farmhnad,

Okay ... no pressure. Well, there is always an issue dangling that has the possibility to cause great headaches in a design. With regards to this thing, my headache was on-fly-frequency control. The problem resolved itself when I 'zipped up' the functional design concept for this thing. It all came together in the last 15 minutes! I now have everything to construct the complete circuit ... and you can 'plug in' as many phases and pauses as you like.

Midnight oil time. Here's a list of the basic circuit blocks:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...er_circuit.pdf

Later

[Farmhand]

Hi Farmhnad,

Okay ... no pressure. Well, there is always an issue dangling that has the possibility to cause great headaches in a design. With regards to this thing, my headache was on-fly-frequency control. The problem resolved itself when I 'zipped up' the functional design concept for this thing. It all came together in the last 15 minutes! I now have everything to construct the complete circuit ... and you can 'plug in' as many phases and pauses as you like.

Midnight oil time. Here's a list of the basic circuit blocks:
http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radian...er_circuit.pdf

Later

Yes no pressure, looks and sounds awesome, I just hope I can build it.

I always make mistakes when I build a new circuit, once I can build a circuit
without looking at the drawing for reference to often I do OK. By then I kind of
know how it works.
Being very new to electronics I have to be kinda carefull what I do or it can
get tiresome. Especially when i can't even work out what went wrong.
It's bad enough knowing what i did wrong and doing it again two or three times.

[gmeast]

plug in stuff

Yes no pressure, looks and sounds awesome, I just hope I can build it.

I always make mistakes when I build a new circuit, once I can build a circuit
without looking at the drawing for reference to often I do OK. By then I kind of
know how it works.
Being very new to electronics I have to be kinda carefull what I do or it can
get tiresome. Especially when i can't even work out what went wrong.
It's bad enough knowing what i did wrong and doing it again two or three times.

Hi Farmhand,

Don't worry about building it. It's digital. There's nothing to tune up, adjust, match, etc. Final design is just IC's plugged into sockets. What's amazing is that I've been using my Op-Amp PWM for the clock at over 600KHz and that's good enough for an output pulse of almost 60Khz out of the counter... and that's 18KHz more than Bob's highest 'Magic Frequency' and also with a 0.6usec PW.

If our 'swirler' is thumping along at 2Mhz, then that is a (theoretical) 0.25usec PW. To get a 10KHz frequency you only need to count to 200, and for 42KHz you only need to count to 48. That means the counter need only be an 8-bit counter and that will let us count down to 7813Hz ... with the same 0.25usec PW unchanged. AND the highest 'swirl' frequency for 3 pulsed coils can be as high as 667KHz! (I didn't want to put down 666.6666666KHz, 'cause you-know-who might be watching).

Later

[gmeast]

I see you looking

Hi 7imix and thatsthat,

Are you guys getting a better idea of what I'm up to? All independent circuits have been tested now. Okay, I still have not tested the gate driver IC.

I still need a pulse clock. 'thatsthat' ... you said you were a 'digital guy', can you please suggest a pulse clock for the SN74LS family of IC's I'm using right now? Later, I'll be migrating this design to even lower power IC's, but this family has every type of IC I need
for this project.

[EDIT] I'd also appreciate it if you could go over the gate driver (UCC27321P) specs and suggest the correct way to interface the 4.5VDC output of the SN74LS's and the driver chip. Thanks.

Thanks. Later

[Farmhand]

Three Frequencies

OK Guys, I think I just made an important realisation to do with the three
requencies, 42 Khz, 21 Khz, 10.5 Khz, I realised this a long time ago when trying
to use two SSG's from one power source.

With a pulsed draw from one SSG interupting the power supply. When I
connected another SSG to the same supply line's it started working at
exactly the same frequency and it was a completely different machine
, It was phase locked to draw current immediatly following the first.

However if the base resistance was raised or the SSG was not capable of the
frequency (because of design) it would just work at half the frequency of the
first. This happens because frequencies fit together, the second is half of the
first and it's locked like that. This allows the different frequencies to co-exist'
in harmony. This would be fairly easy get to happen with free running
oscillators capable of the frequencies, they just need to be close enough to
lock together.

Not sure if that method would swirl but it might a little bit.

Anyway thats a different method to the 120* phase firings.

It would also be a very inexpensive way to go, but building three suitable oscillators the same, would be the key.
I don't think that method would be as potent either but I think I should try it,
Thats the way it's explained in the practical guide to free energy device's.

A very similar locking together action is basically what causes the SCR in my solar setup to commutate. It's what gave me the idea to use it for that.
It's a very usefull effect. Or a pain in the but, depends how you look at it.

Cheers

[gmeast]

OK Guys, I think I just made an important realisation to do with the three
requencies, 42 Khz, 21 Khz, 10.5 Khz, I realised this a long time ago when trying
to use two SSG's from one power source.

With a pulsed draw from one SSG interupting the power supply. When I
connected another SSG to the same supply line's it started working at
exactly the same frequency and it was a completely different machine
, It was phase locked to draw current immediatly following the first.

However if the base resistance was raised or the SSG was not capable of the
frequency (because of design) it would just work at half the frequency of the
first. This happens because frequencies fit together, the second is half of the
first and it's locked like that. This allows the different frequencies to co-exist'
in harmony. This would be fairly easy get to happen with free running
oscillators capable of the frequencies, they just need to be close enough to
lock together.
.................................................. .................................................. ....................................
Cheers

Hi Farmhand,

It's funny you mention the 'self-synching' phenomenon. I used to work in R&D for a major industrial gas turbine manufacturer. Our mobile and stationary supplemental/peaker plants had controls that were designed to allow the operator to 'sneak up' on the utility grid frequency. As soon as the turbo-generator was just only close to 'synch', the operator would connect to the mains and the grid would YANK that turbo-generator 'up' its last hundred or so RPM ... and it was very abrupt and very impressive.

Thought I'd share. Later