Solar Charging/Pulsing Circuit and Variants

[Farmhand]

Still Going

Hi all, I just got a new panel so I removed the two little 10 watt panels to use elsewhere, now the setup i have is 70 watts. I discovered I have a lot of heat coming from my BT151 Thyristor so I think i'll need to do something about that.

Anyway my setup is still going stong even though it's getting warm.

Here's a video of how it regulates the charged battery's voltage in pulsing mode. Sorry about the extra storm footage at the end, i'll try to remove it.

YouTube - AlternateFarmhand1's Channel

I'm trying to think of a way to get a Power Mosfet, an IGBT or a Bipolar Transitor or pair or combination to switch by the rising voltage to get the same effect or similar. However I can't think of a way to do it without the oscillator. Any idea's ?

I have a non sensitive gate SCR an S6025L, I think i'll try it and see what happens, i'll use thicker wire connections and try to think of a better way to trigger the gate, ie. right amount of current.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Ok by removing D7 and placing the SCR 2 into the negative line so switching the negative, the pulsing is much better when using the oscillator, the current is much less restricted at high current levels and at an output level of 3 amps DC without the oscillator and the SCR continually conducting.
I then switch to "pulsing mode" the current pulses excede the DC current level by .5 amp or so.

I originally switched the positive because of the difficulty getting the SCR 2 to switch off and on but it seems it is not needed for it to do that to work.
And it acually works much better this way. Originally the way the main SCR was being switched was causing some restriction somehow. But it is still not good enough. Yet.

I feel there is still some restriction and conflict in there.

And I would like the pulsed current peak to be almost double the DC current. I think I can do this by Tesla's method of charging two cap banks in paralell and dicharging them in series.

I'm very surprised a simple method to do the charge in paralell and discharge in series has not been made public. If I can do it I will most likely make it public. Or maybe I won't. Depends. If it even looks like it's OU maybe I can make some money from it. Just kidding.

Is OU even possible when using free energy to start with ?

I think I will start to only use terms like a C.O.P. rating or input energy compared to output energy.

Cheers

[sucahyo]

I'm very surprised a simple method to do the charge in paralell and discharge in series has not been made public.

I think that because most circuit consume more with lower impedance load(parallel), usually resulted in worse efficiency. So most circuit have better efficiency charging in series.

If you can tweak your circuit to at least do not change efficiency with lower impedance load, then charging in parallel and using it in series is viable.

[FRC]

Farmhand can you elaborate ?

Ok by removing D7 and placing the SCR 2 into the negative line so switching the negative, the pulsing is much better when using the oscillator, the current is much less restricted at high current levels and at an output level of 3 amps DC without the oscillator and the SCR continually conducting.
I then switch to "pulsing mode" the current pulses excede the DC current level by .5 amp or so.

I originally switched the positive because of the difficulty getting the SCR 2 to switch off and on but it seems it is not needed for it to do that to work.
And it acually works much better this way. Originally the way the main SCR was being switched was causing some restriction somehow. But it is still not good enough. Yet.

I feel there is still some restriction and conflict in there.

And I would like the pulsed current peak to be almost double the DC current. I think I can do this by Tesla's method of charging two cap banks in paralell and dicharging them in series.

I'm very surprised a simple method to do the charge in paralell and discharge in series has not been made public. If I can do it I will most likely make it public. Or maybe I won't. Depends. If it even looks like it's OU maybe I can make some money from it. Just kidding.

Is OU even possible when using free energy to start with ?

I think I will start to only use terms like a C.O.P. rating or input energy compared to output energy.

Cheers

I have been wrestling with how to cap dump a current source, and then allow
the caps to recharge. I have trouble understanding RC circuits, 555 timer circuits, tesla switch, etc. Mechanical is the only way I can think of that is simple. What do you mean by "do the charge in paralell and discharge in series" ? Can you explain. Thanks

FRC

[Farmhand]

Hi sucahyo and FRC,

Sucahyo a solar panel is just restricted by more impedance I don't want restriction of free current I want as much current to flow and do work as possible i'm not paying for it. A lower impedance is what I want, it is easier for the panel to charge a lower resistance cap than a high one. The efficiency out of the panel is not to be restricted, to get more power from a solar panel you would want more power to flow quicker. It's opposite to normal I don't want to restrict current flow I want to encourage it. Paralell to series is the right way. It's in one of Tesla's patents. Most people have it backwards. In my opinion. Thats why low ESR caps are better. Idealy when the caps are flipped from paralell to series they should be double the voltage of the battery.

FRC, You can see above for my reason to do this.

I haven't started to work on that yet and may not get a chance for a while. It's not easy to do paralell to series the other way is easier. But I will try. I'm still conceptualising it in my head. I don't have a lot of knowledge of componants myself, and I know how frustrating it can be working with timers.

Could take quite a few headaches to work something out. The problem is if only one cap is used, when it is decoupled the panel has nowhere to put charge so time is lost and power output is restricted. That is what is happening in my setup to a degree I think, even though the cap is not actually disconnected to discharge it still seems to be restricting the panel output. A good simple way to pulse from caps is still needed, I don't think any one has come up with a simple untimed voltage level based cap dumper yet. They are all made complicated or patented.

I'll let you know if I think of something. I would like to use transistors and mosfets.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Attachment is from Tesla patent 583953.

Cheers

[sucahyo]

Sucahyo a solar panel is just restricted by more impedance I don't want restriction of free current I want as much current to flow and do work as possible i'm not paying for it. A lower impedance is what I want, it is easier for the panel to charge a lower resistance cap than a high one.

But are you charging the cap directly? Wouldn't paralleling output reduce output voltage? Would the solar output voltage still be enough to charge the cap? Or would the can had enough voltage to charge the battery?

[Farmhand]

But are you charging the cap directly? Wouldn't paralleling output reduce output voltage? Would the solar output voltage still be enough to charge the cap? Or would the can had enough voltage to charge the battery?

Hi Sucahyo, at the moment if my battery is at 12 -13v my cap bank charges to 17 volts and dumps I have three 15 000uf 35 volt caps in paralell so it can dump 45 000uf from about 5 volts above the battery voltage. If I was to use 2 caps, charge them to 14 volts in paralell, then switch them to series to dump it would be dumping 15 000uf at 28 volts.

The paralell resistance is less than the resistance of one so it will charge them fairly easy and it does charge three now quite easily. when swapped to series the impedance of the caps is raised the voltage is raised and the capacitance if halved.

However I do realise that when the caps are switched to series it could cause problems for the solar output it would have nowhere to go, so the idea is to use two sets of caps so that when one set is switched to series the other set is being charged by the panels in paralell and vice-versa in an alternating arrangement.

I can't see any problem with the panels charging the caps or the caps charging the battery. The difficult part is to acheive the switching based on the voltage level of the caps and to acheive the decoupling of the charged caps from the panels before switching to series and dumping, and the decoupling of the discharged caps from the battery before recoupling to the panels for charging again.

The discharged caps need to wait untill the caps being charged are decoupled to discharge before the discharged caps are recoupled to charge, in an alternating arrangement.

It's very difficult to explain.

But basically one set of caps charges while the other discharges but before discharging the caps are switched to series.

I believe its already been done but it's patented. I will try to do it my way and make it public. I am curious why somebody with better electronic skills has not already made public a simple way to do this.

Seems to me that this method would very much improve the output of the panels.

It could be done in an alternating arrangement without the switching to series by just charging the caps to 17 volts or more which should still increase the output because when one is discharging the other charging, no time is lost, ie. the output is not interupted during discharge. However that won't work if the caps are charged to only 13 or 14 volts.

Cheers

P.S. Yes the caps are charged directly from the solar panels. No oscillator. Just caps and solar panels. For this particular setup.

If anyone has any idea's to achieve this, feel free to tell us the method. I will work it out eventually and make it public. So it might as well happen a bit quicker, I don't have unlimited time, but I will get to it sooner or later.

[7imix]

Thanks farmhand. I have a small solar panel I will use to do experiments in this area. I think the idea has real merit.

[Farmhand]

Hi 7imix, It's good to hear that somebody can see from my poor explaination what I am trying to say. I don't want to take my time away from the self charger project. So I posted my idea to see if anyone thought it had merit, and maybe they would want to think on it aswell.

I have two very similar idea's in this area, this is one of them the other is not fully envisioned in my head yet, it's a bit more complicated and involves an oscillator.

I would like to try to acheive just the alternating arrangement without the switching to series to start with to gauge the improvement over a single capacitive discharge setup.

But people are free to do whatever they like with the idea, it didn't cost me anything to think it up. So I don't mind.

The hard part is making the circuit to work for me. If it can be done and a drawing posted, that would help a lot of people. Maybe.

The advantage of switching to series for discharge is obvious because a battery could be charged with a source voltage lower than the battery.

With my limited knowledge of componants and stuff and the double speak in a lot of patents it's difficult for me to know if it's allready been done.

Cheers

[sucahyo]

Thanks for the explanation Farmhand .

The setup do sound complicated. Some question:
- how do you use the battery? Do you utilize battery while charging it or you have two array so you can charge one and utilize the other or swap them?
- Do you also charge battery in parallel and discharge in series or is it not possible to do?
- have you tried to compare capacitor charge in parallel dump in series VS charge in series dump in series?
- how do you know it is better, by timer? time of charge vs time of dump?



Sounds like your solution better be done with relay. But not sure if potentiometer in series with the relay can be used. You need two. One for each cap. then this relay control a bunch of other relay.... I can try to make some design for this if you want to use relay.

[Farmhand]

Hi sucahyo, I'll try to answer your questions that I can, I haven't really tried anything yet.

- how do you use the battery? Do you utilize battery while charging it or you have two array so you can charge one and utilize the other or swap them?

I think two battery banks would be the better option.

- Do you also charge battery in parallel and discharge in series or is it not possible to do?

The battery could be charged in paralell and used in series. Not sure if there would be a benifit to that or not, maybe.

- have you tried to compare capacitor charge in parallel dump in series VS charge in series dump in series?

No I haven't tried that yet, it's just an idea that I haven't acted on yet, I thought i would share.

- how do you know it is better, by timer? time of charge vs time of dump?

The switching to series is mainly to get a higher voltage than what the panels output, charging them in series will only allow the cap voltage to get to the same as the panel voltage. If the caps are charged in paralell to 17 volts then swapped to series the caps could be dumped from 34 volts to two batteries in series from a panel that can't put out 34 volts. The switching to series could also be used to charge a battery from a voltage source lower than the battery.

I'm just theorising at the moment. I want the setup to be able to handle 10 amps or more from the panels. But also to work in low light.

It's very hard to test charge times from a solar panel unless there is clear skies. The panel output fluctuates with clouds. Lowering the resistance by paralelling should make them easier to charge, theoretically especially since the stored energy in the paralell caps will be double the stored energy of series connected caps charged to the same voltage.

I think the two cap banks need to be tied together in an alternate fashion, locked 180* out of phase kind of. I don't want to use a timer. I would like to have the caps dump when a certain voltage is reached, somehow.

It is possible that a relay would be a very good option for the alternating control and decoupling. It's kind of made for it, a relay has two paths that can alternate and decouple at the same time.

Good thinking Sucahyo.

I just thought I would put this out there for a while before i start to work on it, incase sombody else can think of the details better than me.

Maybe a combination of relay and Bipolar transistors or a combination af relay and SCR's or even relays and mosfets.

I'm not overly fond of timer chips myself. But I will use them if its the easiest way.

I'm kinda fishing for idea's, but it's to benifit all, not just me.

A regular charge controller restricts the current when the battery is almost charged to prevent overcharging. I would rather it kept output at maximum and swapped to a different battery or dumped load to a fan to cool me off.

Cheers

[sucahyo]

I see. Maybe you should use power supply to test the idea if the solar output is irregular.

You mention all cap reach specified voltage faster in parallel? So if you only measure voltage of one capacitor, three in parallel reach specified voltage faster than three in series?

My idea:
We use transistor to limit current to the relay. The resistor value will determine at what voltage the relay will be activated, so this is trial or error art...
YouTube - Simple current limiter with one 3055 transistor and resistor

See if you can spot any error:


How it works:
- the resistor will control the amount of current in the transistor. The transistor will monitor charge in the rightmost capacitor. If voltage is high enough the relay will trigger until it is depleted. turning on relay usually need more voltage than to sustain on, so relay stay on a bit longer. May add cap in parallel with the relay to lengthen on time.
- during off, first capacitor bank is in parallel and receive solar charge, second capacitor bank is in series and charge the battery.
- situation reverse during on.


The circuit can be done with relay with 4 contact like FRM3-4B5, problem is, it is limited to 5A.

[FRC]

Confused

Thanks sucahyo for the video. What is the KVR is that a pot ?

@ Farmhand, I am confused as to how you switch the caps from series to parallel or vice versa ? Some weird kind of switch or something. I was also wondering how to do this. The only thing I could come up with would be. One
or more large caps parallel then smaller ones in series to match the larger ones voltage, and then tap one or more of the smaller ones for your desired voltage. These smaller taps could be further paralelled. The same could be done with a combination of batteries. And I am going to use this method for batteries to come down from a higher voltage to a lower one for a circuit I am working on.

FRC

[sucahyo]

Thanks sucahyo for the video. What is the KVR is that a pot ?

Yes, variable resistor, potentiometer.