Captret - Perpetual Light with Dead Batteries

[ibpointless2]

Could somebody dip a captret into a glass of water (with baking soda and without baking soda), and see if the voltage decreases as the captret is further immersed into the water. We need to rule out the aluminum-air battery effect when an electrolytic capacitor is connected in the captret mode, because the outside of the aluminum can is exposed to air. Just a thought.

GB

I don't have baking soda and want be going to the store for awhile, but i can tell you when you add salt to the water captret it looses voltage and will die very quickly. Salt is suppose to make the water more conductive but the water captret looses 90% of its voltage and by the morning the salt is attached to the plates and it produces 2% of its original voltage. I've heard of Alumium air batteries can also use salt as a electroylte (not the best thing to use) but salt in a water captret is bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_battery\
"About 1.2 volts potential difference is created by these reactions, and is achievable in practice when potassium hydroxide is used as the electrolyte. Saltwater electrolyte achieves approximately 0.7 volts per cell."

I see the baking soda doing the same thing unless you push power through and then it will act like a diode and not a battery anymore.



If i get the chance i buy some baking soda.

[Jbignes5]

I wasn't saying we should abandon the idea.

What I was trying to say is that is one explanation of the effect we were seeing and some of the reports that their aluminum was getting eaten. If you are not seeing the effect of the aluminum falling apart then there is a low content of chlorine in your water, which is a good thing. I was just looking for a possible explanation of the aluminum getting attacked.

As for the aluminum air battery effect that was only a clue as to where this voltage might be coming from. Since water contains oxygen it's a good clue to the effect we are seeing.

The link you provided has an extra \ at the end.

[ibpointless2]

I wonder, what if the captret was merely a aluminum battery? How can it produce voltage when it's similar metals? What if i add baking soda to the water captret and then short the cell out, but the aluminum never corrodes away? Most aluminum air batteries i see people making use salt water and not baking soda. Salt water doesn't work in a water captret because it looses it voltage. On aluminium batteries use a aluminium plate with a rag soaked in salt water and then some type of carbon like graphite. seen here alairbattery


Well I've added baking soda to the water captret. The voltage goes up to around .350 volts, much higher than the normal .150 volts. A lot of bubbles formed all over the inside of the cup and on both plates. In the link above that aluminium battery give power for about 10 minutes as the aluminium oxides. So to test this I've given the best load I know to give and that is a dead short. It's been well over 10 minutes and the plates still look like new and it still produces voltage even after being shorted out for as long as it has. Besides the many bubbles the water captret with baking soda added looks like all the others. I'm merely reporting what i'm seeing, and it seems the baking soda is helping instead of hurting.

The only other thing that this water captret looks like is the Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor, but with that it uses two dissimilar metals to make a current to give you a capacitor. They do point out that you can use both aluminium but only if you need to use it with AC current. Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor.
"Both electrodes can be aluminum if you want to make a capacitor capable of working with ac voltages"
Whats weird is that i'm getting DC voltage and using it as a battery instead of as a AC capacitor.

As you can see the Water captret with baking soda added is still fine even after being shorted. I used Arm and hammer pure baking soda.

Water captret with baking soda picture.JPG

[Jbignes5]

What I suspect is the real culprit.

I wonder, what if the captret was merely a aluminum battery? How can it produce voltage when it's similar metals? What if i add baking soda to the water captret and then short the cell out, but the aluminum never corrodes away? Most aluminum air batteries i see people making use salt water and not baking soda. Salt water doesn't work in a water captret because it looses it voltage. On aluminium batteries use a aluminium plate with a rag soaked in salt water and then some type of carbon like graphite. seen here alairbattery


Well I've added baking soda to the water captret. The voltage goes up to around .350 volts, much higher than the normal .150 volts. A lot of bubbles formed all over the inside of the cup and on both plates. In the link above that aluminium battery give power for about 10 minutes as the aluminium oxides. So to test this I've given the best load I know to give and that is a dead short. It's been well over 10 minutes and the plates still look like new and it still produces voltage even after being shorted out for as long as it has. Besides the many bubbles the water captret with baking soda added looks like all the others. I'm merely reporting what i'm seeing, and it seems the baking soda is helping instead of hurting.

The only other thing that this water captret looks like is the Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor, but with that it uses two dissimilar metals to make a current to give you a capacitor. They do point out that you can use both aluminium but only if you need to use it with AC current. Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor.
"Both electrodes can be aluminum if you want to make a capacitor capable of working with ac voltages"
Whats weird is that i'm getting DC voltage and using it as a battery instead of as a AC capacitor.

As you can see the Water captret with baking soda added is still fine even after being shorted. I used Arm and hammer pure baking soda.

[ATTACH]7344[/ATTACH]

The water captret is a genuine battery. Baking soda is the base or alkaline and the usual different metals are not present. What is present is a surface area difference. If you look at metals as being different in density when two types of materials are used then the surface area that is exposed to the medium (water) would be much different. We have proven that surface area is indeed a part of the equation when battery action is used. It is not the different materials but the surface area that has to be converted by the mass of the conductor and the internal conductivity as it relates to the external surface area of that conductor. If this is true then any conductor can be used in this experiment if they are both used for the plates. Meaning the only change is the surface area we present to the medium with likewise plate composition.

What we need to do now is further prove that it is a surface area connection. We can do this by carefully planning a certain sized plate for each electrode then recording the resulting electricity that flows. Also I believe that each plate should be mass weight balanced so that each plate or electrode weighs the same but the only difference is the surface area presented in the medium for each electrode.

[ibpointless2]

I've tried using car antifreeze 50/50 for use in the water captret. The antifreeze contains much the same electrolyte as a normal capacitor does. By it self the water captret with antifreeze produces very little voltage (8 mV). Hooking a battery up to it and it holds a charge much like a capacitor. This must be what that guy "electricity" was talking about in earlier post. Its funny that the antifreeze makes the water captret a capacitor and Water makes it a battery.

I'm going look into electricity's claims that this big capacitor could charge batteries. After all this water captret is just a big capacitor when you use antifreeze instead of water.


As for plate size i've found that thin is usually positive and thick is usually negative. so the thickness determines the polarity of the plate.

[Jbignes5]

I've tried using car antifreeze 50/50 for use in the water captret. The antifreeze contains much the same electrolyte as a normal capacitor does. By it self the water captret with antifreeze produces very little voltage (8 mV). Hooking a battery up to it and it holds a charge much like a capacitor. This must be what that guy "electricity" was talking about in earlier post. Its funny that the antifreeze makes the water captret a capacitor and Water makes it a battery.

I'm going look into electricity's claims that this big capacitor could charge batteries. After all this water captret is just a big capacitor when you use antifreeze instead of water.


As for plate size i've found that thin is usually positive and thick is usually negative. so the thickness determines the polarity of the plate.

Yeah try to stay away from antifreeze. We don't want a capacitor here. We want a battery that is essentially free except for the cost of water.

As for the plate size you mentioned this is the key. The thick one will always be the negative and the thin one will always be the positive. This is the key. Surface area between the two plates is way different. The thick one has little surface area and the thin one has tons more. This is why I mentioned the aluminum foam earlier. The negative plate will be solid aluminum and the positive will be the metal foam. We need to balance the weight of the plates but only change the surface area that is present in that medium. Of course this means that the battery will be larger but with aluminum the weght will be low except for the water weight. We can stack the negative and positive plates or even house the whole battery in the aluminum negative and have enough foam in the battery to give it a greater surface area and still match the mass of the surrounding battery case. We could also create cells and connect them via buss bars to multiply the voltage or current capability of the entire battery.

[gravityblock]

Take the captret and dip it into a bowl of water and see if the voltage decreases. This test can be done with or without the baking soda added to the bowl of water. There will be less air available to the outside of the aluminum can the further the captret is dipped into the bowl of water. If the voltage decreases as it is dipped into the bowl of water, then the captret is acting like an aluminum-air battery. Do I need to draw a picture?

GB

[ibpointless2]

Yeah try to stay away from antifreeze. We don't want a capacitor here. We want a battery that is essentially free except for the cost of water.

As for the plate size you mentioned this is the key. The thick one will always be the negative and the thin one will always be the positive. This is the key. Surface area between the two plates is way different. The thick one has little surface area and the thin one has tons more. This is why I mentioned the aluminum foam earlier. The negative plate will be solid aluminum and the positive will be the metal foam. We need to balance the weight of the plates but only change the surface area that is present in that medium. Of course this means that the battery will be larger but with aluminum the weght will be low except for the water weight. We can stack the negative and positive plates or even house the whole battery in the aluminum negative and have enough foam in the battery to give it a greater surface area and still match the mass of the surrounding battery case. We could also create cells and connect them via buss bars to multiply the voltage or current capability of the entire battery.

You're right we should stay away from antifreeze but i do find that simply by changing the liquid you can either make a capacitor or battery and since the anitfreeze gives off a little power like a battery i think this might be the reason people see self charging in their captrets circuits. The Captret or really any capacitor is a free energy battery, but its just not fully tune to be a battery. Water works really great and it seems like the water captret will run forever due to the fact the plates don't get destroyed and the fact that they work better when given a load. What battery does anyone know that outputs more power over time when given a load? amazing

The foam idea sounds great but also expensive. I don't know where to get this foam at? With my current design i can add multiple negative plates and connect them up and each have there own voltage and each can charge there own capacitors.

The question that i would like answered is why is nothing be consumed in this water captret battery?

[ibpointless2]

Take the captret and dip it into a bowl of water and see if the voltage decreases. This test can be done with or without the baking soda added to the bowl of water. There will be less air available to the outside of the aluminum can the further the captret is dipped into the bowl of water. If the voltage decreases as it is dipped into the bowl of water, then the captret is acting like an aluminum-air battery. Do I need to draw a picture?

GB

Please draw a picture. Do i take the whole cup and put into water or do you want me to add water to the cup?

[gravityblock]

The question that i would like answered is why is nothing be consumed in this water captret battery?

Because there is very little amps. It will take a very long time to see the aluminum start to be consumed at 0.000008A. This doesn't even take into account the internal resistance.

GB

[ibpointless2]

Because there is very little amps. It will take a very long time to see the aluminum start to be consumed at 0.000008A.

GB

But i dead short out others, there should be something decaying. A normal water battery would show rust and dirty water after at least a week. Plus the .000008 amps are going up over time, it started out at .000004 amps, What battery do you know that would do that when given a load?

[gravityblock]

But i dead short out others, there should be something decaying. A normal water battery would show rust and dirty water after at least a week. Plus the .000008 amps are going up over time, it started out at .000004 amps, What battery do you know that would do that when given a load?

Even with a dead short, there is an internal resistance which needs to be taken into account. Have you measured this internal resistance? I assume it will be very high, thus it will deliver very low amps with a dead short and take a long time before anything is consumed.

GB

[ibpointless2]

Even with a dead short, there is an internal resistance which needs to be taken into account. Have you measured this internal resistance? I assume it will be very high, thus it will deliver very low amps with a dead short and take a long time before anything is consumed.

GB

Is that a bad thing? Hook enough water captret batteries up and have them run a bunch of LED's for a long time? The LED's could run for years if tune correctly. What if the aluminium being consumed was so small that the water captret battery out lived me, would that be a bad thing, Light for my whole life time?
What if the aluminium would never be consumed? Or what about the fact that it produces more amps over time when given a load.

[ibpointless2]

Come to think about it the water captret battery would make a great emergency light. Its cheap, you can make it at home, and can supply light for a long period of time. You can keep it in your basement and when the lights go out you can un short it and hook up a bunch of LED's.

Or if you make a big enough water captret you could supply power to light up your whole house.

[gravityblock]

Or what about the fact that it produces more amps over time when given a load.

What if the internal resistance is rising over time when given a load? A point will be reached where it won't deliver any amps, or will deliver less amps over time. 12V * 0A = 0 watts. 12V / infinite resistance = 0 amps.

GB