Renewable energy and how its changing the world

[Matthew Jones]

Joit you didn't read what I said or you misunderstood.

The law is not for limiting competition is to stop genetically altered food from other countries that don't have these laws from coming in to the US.

Read the law. Look it up in the library of congress.

Besides that I just gave 2 example of HOW FAMILY FARMS ARE MAKING MONEY FROM CARBON CREDITS.

Read it again before you bloat your ego and get stupid with somebody.

Matt

[exxcomm0n]

Thats funny. I live slap in the middle of a whole bunch of family farms and Ranch's.

I'm sure they're gonna like this provision of the bill then if they can decipher it (please excuse the big latin words and such):

[Struck out->] SEC. 102. REGISTRATION OF FOOD FACILITIES. [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (a) Updating of Food Category Regulations; Biennial Registration Renewal- Section 415(a) (21 U.S.C. 350d(a)) is amended-- [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (1) in paragraph (2), by-- [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (A) striking ‘conducts business and’ and inserting ‘conducts business, the e-mail address for the contact person of the facility or, in the case of a foreign facility, the United States agent for the facility, and’; and [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (B) inserting ‘, or any other food categories as determined appropriate by the Secretary, including by guidance)’ after ‘Code of Federal Regulations’; [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (2) by redesignating paragraphs (3) and (4) as paragraphs (4) and (5), respectively; and [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (3) by inserting after paragraph (2) the following: [<-Struck out]

‘(3) BIENNIAL REGISTRATION RENEWAL- During the period beginning on October 1 and ending on December 31 of each even-numbered year, a registrant that has submitted a registration under paragraph (1) shall submit to the Secretary a renewal registration containing the information described in paragraph (2). The Secretary shall provide for an abbreviated registration renewal process for any registrant that has not had any changes to such information since the registrant submitted the preceding registration or registration renewal for the facility involved.’. [<-Struck out]
<the above courtesy of Read The Bill: S. 510 - GovTrack.us >

Gee....I dunno since it's all technical wordy and stuff, but this sounds like another farm tax on top of the CO2 one.

Most of them either just increased their income or are in the process of increasing there income through NO TILL Carbon credit sales and Sustained Forestation programs that are funded by carbon credits.

So....you're able to see the ramifications of recent legislation within 1 year of its enactment and apply those outlooks to a brand new law not even passed or enacted upon?
Damn dude, you're good.
I get my info from silly folks like commodities traders who happen to buy/sell large contracts of corn/beans/wheat daily. They wouldn't hear about anything like this from their customers or grain processing facilities they deal with daily.......Naw.
They must not like it because they have been "confused and misled by conspiracy salesmen".

The funny side effect of the NO TILL is Monsanto Round Up tolerant Soy Bean does not so well in a NO till situation. The farmers are switching strains. I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it actually consumes the plants around it while growing and produces nitrogen in the soil. Just like Rye and Winter wheat.

Manufactured by whom?
Since it's now pretty much illegal to to save crops as seed for a new years planting as it's been found by the supreme court in the favor of large companies that to plant legacy (or heirloom) seed next to a field with seed from the genetically altered stock of a seed company because it is illegal for that legacy seed to be pollinated from the genetically engineered crop.

I always thought it would be kinda covered under the "act of God" clause the legal industry is so keen upon as it has to do with things like wind and insect movement.
But the companies convinced the supreme court that this is one area that God doesn't have his finger in (just don't tell the insurance companies!).

And this is happening in alot of places.

If you look at the Seed Law you are referring to, it allow for Americans to demand that foreign grown crop are compliant with American Standard. The seed that is not is then not allowed to be propagated for American sale by anybody.

Oh my golly! You're right!
There is that whole section 3 (of 4 sections) "TITLE III--IMPROVING THE SAFETY OF IMPORTED FOOD" that deals with foreign foods! Those other 3 sections
(most notably "TITLE I--IMPROVING CAPACITY TO PREVENT FOOD SAFETY PROBLEMS", "IMPROVING CAPACITY TO DETECT AND RESPOND TO FOOD SAFETY", and the most scary "TITLE IV--MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS") are all aimed at foreign food production and could not be applied to food grown in the USA, right?

I mean, that's what you essentially said, and since you're an authority and all stemming from your knowing a couple people in agriculture I'll defer to your judgment.
But could you please cite the part of the law that exempts domestic food producers?
Could you also please show me where it (the bill) excludes the average citizen?


I missed those parts.
It must of been all those long and complicated latin werds.

But I forgive ya for being confused and mislead by conspiracy sales men.

You're so kind to be understanding of us less favored mortals. I should put so much more faith in the word and opinion of a internet forum poster than I should someone like this guy that posts anonymously this whole web page with a nice overview of the proposed legslation:

"The original bill no longer exists. The new S510 is only one part of an amendment they kept. (Kinda makes you wonder how bad the first one was huh?) It also is only in committee, which means the senate has been asked to consider it. Will they vote on it? Why yes of course, otherwise the senate doesn’t care about the children. Did I mention the bill is sponsored by congressman Dingell?

but here is why you should be mad as hell and just aren’t going to take it anymore:

If you trade or give your food away, or sell it at farmers markets, you are no longer considered growing for personal consumption which puts you in a category as a Community Supported Agriculture supplier, or so you forget what it actually means CSA’s for short. This is a whole world of difference because now your food has to be “traceable” That means if your neighbor little sally walker has a tummy ache, you need to be held accountable for giving her those bacteria laden zucchinis. What it really means is a drive to the freshly built State Agriculture Office, to talk to the ladies who got promoted from the DMV to fill out a stack of paperwork the size of War and Peace, pay a handy little “CSA Liscensing fee” plus all the taxes and stuff of course, agree to surprise inspections, OH, and don’t forget that dollar to the blabbity blabb fund. By the way would you like to register to vote sir?

So in other words you don’t grow it yourself, you probably aren’t going to get to eat it. Which is going to make you a pretty big ball of sad if you get most of your fruits and veggies from farmers markets. Is this going to be the end of organic farming? No probably not directly or in the near future but farmers who can afford to give away 50% of their profits to the government to implement this bill will probably not going to be living in your town. And because of the lack of farmers putting their heirloom seed grown produce out there, we will eventually see a decline in the amount of heirloom seeds available to the public. The worst part though is the bill will directly affect pet and animal feed manufacturers as well, which means higher feed costs for farmers, which means you ain’t makin chicken wings for the backyard barbecue buddy. It’s all hot dogs from here. We will probably still get hamburgers for a while, but eventually hamburgers will be the price of steak, steak will be the price of lobster, lobster will be filled with oil."

I dunno man. 2 people on the internet with conflicting views.
How shall I ever resolve this quandry???

There is alot of Latin terms and big words in legislation so it kind of hard to understand the breast of what is being wrote. Especially when you need that 10 minute article to explain it all.

I understand breasts dude, really.
The 10 min. article is an easier read, but I'm more of a "hands on" guy when it comes to breast understanding.
Maybe your method is better? Let's hear it!

You have to look into these things yourself, conspiracy is a consumable and people like you are the junky that is addicted.

Matt

Yeah...I thought my nodding aquaintance with sites like GovTrak would keep me safe from such forum posting gaffs as you seem to think my last post was when dealing with pending and passed legislation.
I am very grateful that there are those, like you, that can steer my along through the morass of political agendas.

Gold star for you buddy!

[exxcomm0n]

Thats funny. I live slap in the middle of a whole bunch of family farms and Ranch's.

I'm sure they're gonna like this provision of the bill then if they can decipher it (please excuse the big latin words and such):

[Struck out->] SEC. 102. REGISTRATION OF FOOD FACILITIES. [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (a) Updating of Food Category Regulations; Biennial Registration Renewal- Section 415(a) (21 U.S.C. 350d(a)) is amended-- [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (1) in paragraph (2), by-- [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (A) striking ‘conducts business and’ and inserting ‘conducts business, the e-mail address for the contact person of the facility or, in the case of a foreign facility, the United States agent for the facility, and’; and [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (B) inserting ‘, or any other food categories as determined appropriate by the Secretary, including by guidance)’ after ‘Code of Federal Regulations’; [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (2) by redesignating paragraphs (3) and (4) as paragraphs (4) and (5), respectively; and [<-Struck out]

[Struck out->] (3) by inserting after paragraph (2) the following: [<-Struck out]

‘(3) BIENNIAL REGISTRATION RENEWAL- During the period beginning on October 1 and ending on December 31 of each even-numbered year, a registrant that has submitted a registration under paragraph (1) shall submit to the Secretary a renewal registration containing the information described in paragraph (2). The Secretary shall provide for an abbreviated registration renewal process for any registrant that has not had any changes to such information since the registrant submitted the preceding registration or registration renewal for the facility involved.’. [<-Struck out]
<the above courtesy of Read The Bill: S. 510 - GovTrack.us >

Gee....I dunno since it's all technical wordy and stuff, but this sounds like another farm tax on top of the CO2 one.

Most of them either just increased their income or are in the process of increasing there income through NO TILL Carbon credit sales and Sustained Forestation programs that are funded by carbon credits.

So....you're able to see the ramifications of recent legislation within 1 year of its enactment and apply those outlooks to a brand new law not even passed or enacted upon?
Damn dude, you're good.
I get my info from silly folks like commodities traders who happen to buy/sell large contracts of corn/beans/wheat daily. They wouldn't hear about anything like this from their customers or grain processing facilities they deal with daily.......Naw.
They must not like it because they have been "confused and misled by conspiracy salesmen".

The funny side effect of the NO TILL is Monsanto Round Up tolerant Soy Bean does not so well in a NO till situation. The farmers are switching strains. I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it actually consumes the plants around it while growing and produces nitrogen in the soil. Just like Rye and Winter wheat.

Manufactured by whom?
Since it's now pretty much illegal to to save crops as seed for a new years planting as it's been found by the supreme court in the favor of large companies that to plant legacy (or heirloom) seed next to a field with seed from the genetically altered stock of a seed company because it is illegal for that legacy seed to be pollinated from the genetically engineered crop.

I always thought it would be kinda covered under the "act of God" clause the legal industry is so keen upon as it has to do with things like wind and insect movement.
But the companies convinced the supreme court that this is one area that God doesn't have his finger in (just don't tell the insurance companies!).

And this is happening in alot of places.

If you look at the Seed Law you are referring to, it allow for Americans to demand that foreign grown crop are compliant with American Standard. The seed that is not is then not allowed to be propagated for American sale by anybody.

Oh my golly! You're right!
There is that whole section 3 (of 4 sections) "TITLE III--IMPROVING THE SAFETY OF IMPORTED FOOD" that deals with foreign foods! Those other 3 sections
(most notably "TITLE I--IMPROVING CAPACITY TO PREVENT FOOD SAFETY PROBLEMS", "IMPROVING CAPACITY TO DETECT AND RESPOND TO FOOD SAFETY", and the most scary "TITLE IV--MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS") are all aimed at foreign food production and could not be applied to food grown in the USA, right?

I mean, that's what you essentially said, and since you're an authority and all stemming from your knowing a couple people in agriculture I'll defer to your judgment.
But could you please cite the part of the law that exempts domestic food producers?
Could you also please show me where it (the bill) excludes the average citizen?


I missed those parts.
It must of been all those long and complicated latin werds.

But I forgive ya for being confused and mislead by conspiracy sales men.

You're so kind to be understanding of us less favored mortals. I should put so much more faith in the word and opinion of a internet forum poster than I should someone like this guy that posts anonymously this whole web page with a nice overview of the proposed legslation:

"The original bill no longer exists. The new S510 is only one part of an amendment they kept. (Kinda makes you wonder how bad the first one was huh?) It also is only in committee, which means the senate has been asked to consider it. Will they vote on it? Why yes of course, otherwise the senate doesn’t care about the children. Did I mention the bill is sponsored by congressman Dingell?

but here is why you should be mad as hell and just aren’t going to take it anymore:

If you trade or give your food away, or sell it at farmers markets, you are no longer considered growing for personal consumption which puts you in a category as a Community Supported Agriculture supplier, or so you forget what it actually means CSA’s for short. This is a whole world of difference because now your food has to be “traceable” That means if your neighbor little sally walker has a tummy ache, you need to be held accountable for giving her those bacteria laden zucchinis. What it really means is a drive to the freshly built State Agriculture Office, to talk to the ladies who got promoted from the DMV to fill out a stack of paperwork the size of War and Peace, pay a handy little “CSA Liscensing fee” plus all the taxes and stuff of course, agree to surprise inspections, OH, and don’t forget that dollar to the blabbity blabb fund. By the way would you like to register to vote sir?

So in other words you don’t grow it yourself, you probably aren’t going to get to eat it. Which is going to make you a pretty big ball of sad if you get most of your fruits and veggies from farmers markets. Is this going to be the end of organic farming? No probably not directly or in the near future but farmers who can afford to give away 50% of their profits to the government to implement this bill will probably not going to be living in your town. And because of the lack of farmers putting their heirloom seed grown produce out there, we will eventually see a decline in the amount of heirloom seeds available to the public. The worst part though is the bill will directly affect pet and animal feed manufacturers as well, which means higher feed costs for farmers, which means you ain’t makin chicken wings for the backyard barbecue buddy. It’s all hot dogs from here. We will probably still get hamburgers for a while, but eventually hamburgers will be the price of steak, steak will be the price of lobster, lobster will be filled with oil."

I dunno man. 2 people on the internet with conflicting views.
How shall I ever resolve this quandry???

There is alot of Latin terms and big words in legislation so it kind of hard to understand the breast of what is being wrote. Especially when you need that 10 minute article to explain it all.

I understand breasts dude, really.
The 10 min. article is an easier read, but I'm more of a "hands on" guy when it comes to breast understanding.
Maybe your method is better? Let's hear it!

Oh ....wait. Maybe you meant BREADTH?

You have to look into these things yourself, conspiracy is a consumable and people like you are the junky that is addicted.

Matt

Yeah...I thought my nodding aquaintance with sites like GovTrak would keep me safe from such forum posting gaffs as you seem to think my last post was when dealing with pending and passed legislation.
I am very grateful that there are those, like you, that can steer my along through the morass of political agendas.

Gold star for you buddy!

[Matthew Jones]

Well there you go, you know it all. The 10 minute conspiracy articles have served you well.

Just one thing while bloating info. Where is the bill at in comity now? Or is set to go to the floor?

Matt

[exxcomm0n]

How 'bout you answer one of the questions I posed?

@ all

Sorry for the double post and dead GovTrack link. Between the combination of intermittent wireless connectivity and wanting to edit the post, I double posted, typo'd, and did not go back to check before the login time out.

Matt,

I'd be happy to address your questions (In a new thread perhaps?), if you'd kindly take a stab at answering the some of the ones I posed to in the previous (double) post.

You've said that the 10 min. conspiracy blurbs are not representative of what's actually in the bill, so would you please explain the 4 sections to us?

Thanks man!