My E-motor - how does it work?

[seth]

Hi guys

I was playing with HV and asymmetric capacitors, trying to do things like TTBrown did and Professor Turtur, and i stumbled across this - perhaps its been around for donkeys years as its ever such a simple setup. But i cant figure out WHY it spins - the precise mechanism i mean. I have a large sheet of aluminium foil under a wooden board charged to +20kV and more and over the board i have 2 nails which hang freely and spin like crazy when i switch the voltage on.


YouTube - e-motor


If its ion wind, how exactly? The nails are grounded and not charged at all (in the video i touch them during operation in order to prove this). Perhaps then the high voltage electrically induces a high voltage in the nails.....but then why would they spin?? wouldnt they just get attracted to the positive foil? I just dont get it

Reminds me of the following which i read on Lamares link


''....all one has to do is create a
"shaped" asymmetrical electric field and place any neutral object
within the field an look for an imposed acceleration''

[Joit]

It doesnt make me happy.
"This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment. It is not available in your country."

[Jetijs]

Looks like a homopolar motor. The electricity flows (ionizarion) perpendicular to the magnetic field of the magnet, this makes the needles move. Like this:

if you did not have that magnet there, I doubt it would spin. But if it still does rotate without the magnet, then there is something else.

[seth]

OK - Thanks Jetijs. Thats a very clear explanation and ive built lots of those little homopolar motors myself. Nonetheless, the setup wouldnt spin when i tried without the 2 perpendicular nails...just one nail and a magnet wouldnt spin. Im gonna try and remove the magnet.....its a shame that the magnet is vital to the rotor setup!!!! Perhaps ill try and get something spinning on water like Turtur did.

[seth]

OK - i understand your logic completely now - the 2 perpendicular nails cause the current to be perpendicular to the magnetic field. Thats exactly why it only works WITH the nails, but it wont work without......

However.....

Ive just tried placing a piece of foam at the end of the nail and it also works - spins very fast. Im using water now between the positive electrode and the hanging foam. Ive still got the magnet as its the only way i can get the rotor to hang. But im still pretty mystified about the foam. Does it also conduct a current, and therefore ensure an EM force?

ill get a video up soon.

[seth]

OK - You are completely right jetijs

It only spins anti clockwise, but if i reverse the magnet, then it only spins clockwise. leads to me conclude that this is exactly as you said....foam or no foam.

You live and learn

[elias]

Hi Seth

Interesting experiment, can you measure the current flow from your power supply? I want to know how much power you are using for the motor.

Interesting enough, you have found a way to make a wireless commutator for the homo-polar motor, thus making it more efficient.

Elias

[elias]

Hi again

My understanding is that magnetic fields and electric fields move in a vortex, almost like water. One key to obtain "free energy" is to tap the energy in the vortex.

This effect MAY be some how related to the vortex of the moving e-field, and b-field.

To find out we need to calculate the COP of the system.

Also, would you try the experiment by using a larger diameter magnet?

Thanks for sharing ...
Elias

[seth]

Hi again

My understanding is that magnetic fields and electric fields move in a vortex, almost like water. One key to obtain "free energy" is to tap the energy in the vortex.

This effect MAY be some how related to the vortex of the moving e-field, and b-field.

To find out we need to calculate the COP of the system.

Also, would you try the experiment by using a larger diameter magnet?

Thanks for sharing ...
Elias

Hi elias - thanks for taking an interest!

I will do exactly as you suggest - the main reason being it spins faster than any other motor ive built. Ill do some amp measurements and input readings, but i have nothing thatll measure the rpm, and it spins real fast with the right piece of hanging metal - water as a dielectric between the rotor and the positive plate seems to help acceleration too. Any ideas for measuring rpm?

watch this space....

[seth]

Here we go - the rotor weighs at least 25 grams (15 grams, large neo magnet, 5 grams each alan key). Input 0.5A @ 12V.

In this setup the rotor is connected to -20Kv and the foil +20Kv. The rotor spins for 2 reasons

a) as jetijs pointed out earlier...ionization current meets the magnet perpendicularly and creates an EM force

b) the ends of the alan keys ionize and make it an ion spinner also.

YouTube - emotor2

[broli]

If it is homopolar action then it's not the current flowing through the magnet that's torquing it, but the ions flying off of it.

[seth]

If it is homopolar action then it's not the current flowing through the magnet that's torquing it, but the ions flying off of it.

i agree and disagree - its not the current flowing through the magnet thats torquing it. Its the current flowing through the alan keys thats torquing it. The ions flying off add to the effect, but by far the greater action is the current in the alan keys - it doesnt work without them.

It will work with any other materials, providing they are coated in al foil to allow for current to pass.

I can connect the rotor to negative 20Kv or 0V of my HV power supply (transparent box) and the effect is the same.

[gyula]

Hi seth,

I would like to show you a link where so called zero point energy thruster is shown both in theory and practice, with videos in the bottom of the link:

Zero Point Energy Thruster

and his earlier tinkerings are here:

Ether propulsion maybe start reading this latter link first.

Gyula

[broli]

I just saw the experimental setup. I'm a bit clueless now. For ionization current to flow you need an ionized path, you interrupt this path by the wood.



Can I suggest you put an ammetter between ground and your rotating setup (which I think you haven't done so far). And then add layers of insulating materials and see what happens to current.

[seth]

I just saw the experimental setup. I'm a bit clueless now. For ionization current to flow you need an ionized path, you interrupt this path by the wood.



Can I suggest you put an ammetter between ground and your rotating setup (which I think you haven't done so far). And then add layers of insulating materials and see what happens to current.

I thought the same thing at first - namely, that the wood BLOCKED the current path. This is why i thought it couldnt possibly be a homopolar motor. But Jetijs is right. There IS ionization current - i imagine the wood climbs to a very high voltage (as it is in contact with the positive electrode) and ionizes the air itself. As such, there is ionization current flowing....

Please correct me anyone, if you think im talking out of my rear...I could well be!

I will do exactly as you suggest - an ammetre between ground and rotor.

Heres a video of foam and foil spinning - also includes another big heavy rotor spinning extremely fast:

YouTube - emotor3

@ gyula - thanks for the links!!! Ive seen his thruster with the 3 spikes and ping pong ball....definitely interesting stuff.