Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[Matthew Jones]

Motors

I might have missed it if it was suggested but I have been reading along and the perfect motor is out there.
Razor Scooter Motors have an even poled rotor. 4 Brushes, and 2 sets of magnets.
And they are cheap. 250 watt motor is like 35 dollars plus shipping.

Usually I find them in abundance at the dump in the metal pile. People throw them out all the time for blown fuses (Serial connection on the battery is fused) and dead batteries.
I have about 20 of them in the garage with batteries. So...

They also have nice easy to work on setups. The brush's should be easy to move around or the might work with a just a rewiring. I think the only problem might be the magnets need re arranged and they are bonded to the case with cement. I haven't tried to remove them before so I am not sure.

Anyway nice cheap ready to go off the shelf part.

Matt

[chasson321]

Brain Fart

Tim, actually, you are NOT confused. Read what I have said about this carefully in Post #170. Ask yourself, "what is the goal?" and "what design features accomplish this goal?".

Peter

Just realized what I was picturing in my mind and on paper. I was just considering one set of brushes and not two, pulsing the rotor and then capturing the spike with the same set of brushes.

Tim

[Peter Lindemann]

Even Number of Slots is Best

Peter

I have torn apart a 12 electric motor I have and taken off all the windings. I was surprised to discover that there are 11 commutator/winding sections and the winding sections are angled.

You stated:
"The windings on the rotor end up to be "CUSTOM", as all you need is ONE SET OF WINDINGS through TWO SLOTS that are on opposite sides of the rotor and attached to TWO COMMUTATOR SEGMENTS on opposite sides of the commutator."

My questions are will my 11 section rotor work ok or should I try to find a rotor with an even number of winding sections? Maybe they're all odd amounts, I don't know. And secondly when you say one set of winding I assume you mean 1 coil that is more or less centered around the rotor shaft which will also help keep the rotor balanced.

I've thought about removing most of the winding slot sections so I can wrap more wire but I think the motor would cog more and be impossible to balance especially with the odd number of sections to work with so I'm just going to leave it for now unless you suggest otherwise.

Does anyone know a good place to purchase brush assemblies and commutators?

Mark

Mark,

The rotor and commutator systems that have an even number are better for this kind of modification. Balance and symmetry are the issues. Two Pole stator magnets with a Two Brush system are also better for this first step in the learning process.

The motor linked below looks like it would be good IF we can find out that it has an even number of slots in the rotor.

Surplus Center - 1/2 HP 12 VDC 1750 RPM 56C MOTOR

I am not saying to buy this motor. I am saying that this motor has the right characteristics. If you acquire TWO such motors, you can scavenge the brushes from the second one to retrofit back into the first one, and have two rotors to work with, as well.

I hope this helps.

Peter

[FRC]

I might have missed it if it was suggested but I have been reading along and the perfect motor is out there.
Razor Scooter Motors have an even poled rotor. 4 Brushes, and 2 sets of magnets.
And they are cheap. 250 watt motor is like 35 dollars plus shipping.

Usually I find them in abundance at the dump in the metal pile. People throw them out all the time for blown fuses (Serial connection on the battery is fused) and dead batteries.
I have about 20 of them in the garage with batteries. So...

They also have nice easy to work on setups. The brush's should be easy to move around or the might work with a just a rewiring. I think the only problem might be the magnets need re arranged and they are bonded to the case with cement. I haven't tried to remove them before so I am not sure.

Anyway nice cheap ready to go off the shelf part.

Matt

Just want to make sure that these are the Razor scooter motors. Because there is a Razor E100 on sale for $99.95 in a local store here, and regular price is &149.95. Even to buy it just for parts might be worth it. You would
get the motor, two 12volt batteries, controller, and maybe some other parts
that could be scavenged. Plus would not have to pay shipping and duty, since I am in Canada. Might almost be worth it even at the higher price.

FRC

[Matthew Jones]

YA I don't know about Canada, shipping and that stuff. But thats not really a bad deal.
But may just buy the motor. I am not sure if the e100 has 4 pole motor or not.

Usually the Motor bike type things have the bigger motor. I know 250 watt and bigger Razor motors have 4 poles. 40 dollars.

If you look you might find parts in Canada, refurbished or something. Or email or call Razor and ask if they have a parts place in Canada they can recommend.

But I would hate for you to go buy a whole scooter and find out it had a 2 poled motor.

Cheers
Matt

[FRC]

Matthew Jones

Thankyou for the reply. I guess one would have to find out if that smaller motor did have the 4 poles to make it worth it.

FRC

[Mark]

Thanks for the info Matt,

I found a good deal thru all electronics $25.00 and $7.00 to ship. It has 4 brushes but doesn't say anything about the poles, hopefully it will work fine. Here's a link 24 VDC 250W MOTOR, 11 TOOTH SPROCKET | AllElectronics.com

Its not as big as the one you showed Peter but hopefully will be a cheap one to start with.

Mark

[Mark]

I ordered the motor I posted and should have it in a few days. As soon as I receive it I will open it up and let everyone know what I find.

[Matthew Jones]

I ordered the motor I posted and should have it in a few days. As soon as I receive it I will open it up and let everyone know what I find.

Mark thats the same motor I'm talking about. Let me find my camera I'll get you some picture.

You won't have problems with it. It should work fine.

Give me a bit
Matt

[rosehillworks]

Matthew I have one of those to. I will see what i can do with it, Thank's

[Matthew Jones]

Razor Scooter Pictures

Hey
I took a 24v 15 amp motor apart and took pictures for ya'll.
it has 4 magnets, 16 wired poles, and 2 sets of brush's.
I left the images large.
Razor Motor, Matthew Jones

Added this; The back plate that holds the brush's is removable and should be pretty easy to modify new brush placement. And as your looking at the magnets the Poles are facing in with North on top and left, South on bottom and right.

Have fun
Matt

[Mark]

Thanks Matt,

Mine should be the same, but I did notice that the one I ordered has a rated speed of 3000 rpm instead of the 2750 rpm's yours shows. From the pictures it looks like each coil covers 4 core sections or 1/4 of the rotor. If I understand correctly the magnets are placed NNSS or one half is south and the other half is north.

Peter recommended winding 1 coil right down the middle of the rotor but it doesn't look like there is very much clearence between the rotor cores and the commutator. I'm wondering if it may be better to wind one continous coil but with half of it around 4 core sections on one side and the other half of the coil around 4 sections directly across from it. Or if 2, 3, 5 or 6 would be better.

Your input Peter and anyone elses woudl be helpful. I also have 3 different kinds of wire on hand. 18awg, 20awg, and 34awg (the 34 is flat wire) which would be best?

Again thanks for talking the time Matt to tear down and take pics

Mark

[Peter Lindemann]

You Are Right

Thanks Matt,

Mine should be the same, but I did notice that the one I ordered has a rated speed of 3000 rpm instead of the 2750 rpm's yours shows. From the pictures it looks like each coil covers 4 core sections or 1/4 of the rotor. If I understand correctly the magnets are placed NNSS or one half is south and the other half is north.

Peter recommended winding 1 coil right down the middle of the rotor but it doesn't look like there is very much clearence between the rotor cores and the commutator. I'm wondering if it may be better to wind one continous coil but with half of it around 4 core sections on one side and the other half of the coil around 4 sections directly across from it. Or if 2, 3, 5 or 6 would be better.

Your input Peter and anyone elses woudl be helpful. I also have 3 different kinds of wire on hand. 18awg, 20awg, and 34awg (the 34 is flat wire) which would be best?

Again thanks for talking the time Matt to tear down and take pics

Mark

Mark,

You are right. This magnetic stator arrangement would require a different rotor winding set-up than the simple one I recommended. As for what wire to use, since the current motor is rated for 24 volt operation, you may want to wind it with a thicker wire than it currently has. My main concern with this motor is how small the brushes are. They are clearly not meant for large currents.

The purpose of this first experiment is to prove out the basic modification and its benefits. This motor, as a frame to build from, adds a fair number of complications.

Peter

[Matthew Jones]

You can run some power through them. I have one on a skate board with back pack of batteries that runs 72 volt through a 680 watt version of the motor. Same size brush's. Bigger magnets bigger wire..

Peter is the one who should dictate what a GOOD motor is. I just thought it might be worth mentioning. Thought it might be a nice cheap alternative.

Oh well
Matt

[Mark]

Peter,

I dont know what other modifications you are planing and only want to wind this rotor one time. So what do you recommend as the way to wind the rotor?

Should I just wrap around the 4 sections on each side? Or go around 2 then 4 and across to the other side to 4 sections then to the inside 2. Or go 2 then 4 then 6 and acrross to the other side? What do you suggest?

Mark