Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[pault]

1.5 turn strategy

Can you please clarify what you mean by "1 1'2 turn strategy" ? I finally got
my motor today but have not done anything with it yet.

FRC

I haven't worked this out, but it is my feeling that there should be a "better" way to distribute the x-overs and pack more wire onto the armature.

The way I wound the armature resulted in all of the x-overs being in one slot and none of them in the other slot. Here's the 1st three windings, the way I did it:

1a) start at commutator, put wire in slot #1
1b) lay wire over top of armature, to the right of the shaft
1c) put wire into slot #6
1d) lay wire over bottom of armature, to the right of the shaft

2a) put wire in slot #1
2b) lay wire over top of arm. to the left of the shaft
2c) put wire into slot #6
2d) lay wire over bottom of arm. to the left of the shaft

3a) put wire in slot #1
3b) lay wire over top of arm. to the right of the shaft
3c) put wire in slot #6
3d) lay wire over bottom of arm. to the right of the shaft

...

If you try this, you will find that the cross-overs happen at (2a) and (3a), always in slot #1.

The original goal was to make sure that the wire was evenly balanced on each side of the shaft.

I think that it should be possible to do something like:

1a) start at commutator, put wire in slot #1
1b) lay wire over top of armature, to the right of the shaft
1c) put wire into slot #6
1d) lay wire over bottom of armature, to the right of the shaft
1e) put wire into slot #1
1f) lay wire over top of armature, to the right of the shaft

then repeat 1a-1f on the left side of the shaft. 3 rights, then 3 lefts.

I haven't tried this, but I think it will result in an even number of strands on each side of the shaft, plus it will have the same number of x-overs in slot #1 and slot #6.

I think that the best way to test my theory is to try it. If it doesn't work, maybe the solution will still be obvious.

At the moment, I don't have an empty armature to try it myself, but, if you have trouble I'll unwind one and we can try to suss it out together.

If you try it, let us know.

pt

[Kenowen]

no lockridge info

I have watched both of Lindemann's 2 videos and this one from John Bedini:
"energy from vacuum 14 lockridge device"
John mentioned that he was not going to release the information that the person had collected on the Lockridge device.

My question is if it cannot be built why not publish the notes and maybe someone would succeed?

We need another N. Tesla! Maybe one of us.

[Matthew Jones]

I have watched both of Lindemann's 2 videos and this one from John Bedini:
"energy from vacuum 14 lockridge device"
John mentioned that he was not going to release the information that the person had collected on the Lockridge device.
My question is if it cannot be built why not publish the notes and maybe someone would succeed?
We need another N. Tesla! Maybe one of us.

It can be built. We are discussing just that in this thread. Read through we are working not wondering.

Matt

[Peter Lindemann]

Matt is Right

I have watched both of Lindemann's 2 videos and this one from John Bedini:
"energy from vacuum 14 lockridge device"
John mentioned that he was not going to release the information that the person had collected on the Lockridge device.

My question is if it cannot be built why not publish the notes and maybe someone would succeed?

We need another N. Tesla! Maybe one of us.

Dear Kenowen,

Welcome to the thread. I have seen and studied the Notebook. As I said in the lecture, the gentleman who compiled it was trying to piece the design back together by interviewing people who had owned or seen units in operation. When that failed, for lack of details, he tried to take what he knew and run some experiments. But he lacked a "theory of operation" and therefore, didn't really know which way his experiments should go. Eventually, he realized he had taken the project as far as he could, and gave the whole thing to John. His contribution is that he kept the idea of the machine alive and passed it to us!

My lecture was an attempt to put forward a "theory of operation" based on the mechanical power gain available by running a standard electric motor on high voltage pulses (capacitor discharges is the case of the Lockridge Device). This thread is exploring running slightly modified motors by this new method, and the power gains do seem to appear, as the theory predicted. In fact, Matt and others have demonstrated this a number of time in their posts.

If you wish to participate in this thread, it would be helpful if you would take the time to read the whole thread and then attempt to build an experimental model yourself, as many others are doing here.

Science is NOT a purely intellectual exercise. You must also run the experiment yourself to see what happens, or you will always be left "believing" what you already think. Only the results of the experiment can provide you with NEW information about the nature of reality to authoritatively challenge what you have believed before.

If it is of any value to you, I can say with certainty, that the theory is correct, and the machine works. There are numerous variations on the machine that have different benefits. The original "Lockridge Device" was set up to run itself and light a few light bulbs. A much more interesting variation is a machine that runs itself and charges batteries. This is where this thread is going after more people understand the basics.

Peter

[Kenowen]

Thanks

Dear Kenowen,

Welcome to the thread. I have seen and studied the Notebook. As I said in the lecture, the gentleman who compiled it was trying to piece the design back together by interviewing people who had owned or seen units in operation. When that failed, for lack of details, he tried to take what he knew and run some experiments. But he lacked a "theory of operation" and therefore, didn't really know which way his experiments should go. Eventually, he realized he had taken the project as far as he could, and gave the whole thing to John. His contribution is that he kept the idea of the machine alive and passed it to us!

My lecture was an attempt to put forward a "theory of operation" based on the mechanical power gain available by running a standard electric motor on high voltage pulses (capacitor discharges is the case of the Lockridge Device). This thread is exploring running slightly modified motors by this new method, and the power gains do seem to appear, as the theory predicted. In fact, Matt and others have demonstrated this a number of time in their posts.

If you wish to participate in this thread, it would be helpful if you would take the time to read the whole thread and then attempt to build an experimental model yourself, as many others are doing here.

Science is NOT a purely intellectual exercise. You must also run the experiment yourself to see what happens, or you will always be left "believing" what you already think. Only the results of the experiment can provide you with NEW information about the nature of reality to authoritatively challenge what you have believed before.

If it is of any value to you, I can say with certainty, that the theory is correct, and the machine works. There are numerous variations on the machine that have different benefits. The original "Lockridge Device" was set up to run itself and light a few light bulbs. A much more interesting variation is a machine that runs itself and charges batteries. This is where this thread is going after more people understand the basics.

Peter

Thanks Peter,
I have been following the thread and hope it does stay on subject. I fully understand the logic and design of what you are trying to teach people.
I myself have gone another direction and am wondering what thread to put my information under or should I start another thread. Like you I have a job to eat some of my time to pay the bills. I have been collecting information for several years and being that I have been working in electronics since 1970 believe I have succeeded in capturing a Maxwell demon this last week in a solid state device to charge a battery. Now to complete the circuity by design and testing. I do not feel that I am ready to publish yet but would be willing to discuss this in private.
Kenowen

[citfta]

@ Kenowen, please check your PM's

Carroll

[goreggie]

windings of 2 pole motor



results will follow on testing, Peter and members could not do it without you, here we go ... Thanks

[Mark]

[ATTACH]7846[/ATTACH]

results will follow on testing, Peter and members could not do it without you, here we go ... Thanks

Looks good Goreggie. Looks like small wire with a lot of winds but hard to tell with the picture. I would like to know more specs, wire size, wraps, how many commutator sections etc. Keep up the good work! I look forward to your testing results.

Mark

p.s. Looks like you have wound 4 seperate coils? I could be wrong, but what winding pattern are you using?

[Robbush]

prony brake all set up

So I now have things set up to perform dyno testing, but need one question answered (Peter Lindemann). The pulley I had in the garage and machined to fit my motor has a circumference of 7 3/4". Could someone explain how to perform the math with that pulley? I have also done some no load runs to see speed and at 48 volts input the motor is spinning over 8000 rpm and recovered 36 volts to a pair of 76000mfd caps in series. I will do some load testing today at different voltages to get the numbers I need, then do the output math later. Will post results later. Peace
rawbush

Well I have some numbers to post, but the motor died in the last test at 48 volts (4 batteries). I have not taken it apart yet but, suspect the commutator has been burned up? Any how

one battery

no load volts 12.49
amps 1.8
rpm 1761
loaded volts 12.22
amps 5.00
rpm 770
grams 400

two battery

no load volts 24.94
amps 2.2
rpm 4220
loaded volts 24.47
amps 5.00
rpm 2430
grams 400

three battery

no load volts 37.51
amps 2.0
rpm 6635
loaded volts 36.76
amps 5.00
rpm 4401
grams 380

four battery

no load volts 49.60
amps 2.4
rpm 8660
loaded volts 48.80
amps 5.00
rpm 55?? motor died here
grams 340

off to open the motor up will share my findings.

[pault]

... The pulley I had in the garage and machined to fit my motor has a circumference of 7 3/4". Could someone explain how to perform the math with that pulley? ...

If you are using the leather sling dynamometer that Peter builds in vid #1 (which I might be incorrectly calling a Prony brake), then,

7.75 / 12 --> # of feet for one rev of the pulley

#-of-feet-for-one-rev X RPS X lbs. --> ft-lbs per second = work

(where RPS is revs per second = RPM / 60).

Thanks to Matt's explanation to me: you want to find a voltage range where the motor operates, e.g. 3 batteries (roughly 36V), then, you want to run a bunch of dynamometer tests with various loadings and pick the point at which the motor is most efficient.

So, you need a way to "ratchet" the load and keep it steady while you take all 4 readings (V, A, speed, weight), then ratchet some more and take another set of readings.

efficiency = output power / input power

input power HP = (V X A) / 746
output power HP = ft-lb/s / 550

I'll create a second message describing the Rube Goldberg contraption I built...

pt

[pault]

poor man dynamometer

For the benefit of members who want to consider their options in building a dynamometer, Prony brake, etc., here is what I came up with:

I built a dynamometer much like that in Peter's vid #1, except I built it upside down.

I placed an "accurate" digital kitchen scale on the floor.

On top of the scale, I placed a jug of water and measured its full weight.

I attached a string (actually 2 strands from a CAT5 wire) to the jug's handle and attached the other end to a spring.

The spring is connected to a short piece of leather (shoelace snipped from a pair of worn-out Dockers), whose other end is connected to another spring which is secured to the workbench.

I got a small brass bushing with a slot machined into it and set-screwed it to the shaft of the motor. I measured the diameter of the slot with calipers and calculated its circumference (pi X d).

I created a "ratcheting" pulley by standing a (rectangular) bench vise on its end (sufficiently C-clamped to the workbench). To the movable end of the vise, I attached a rod and a pulley (from a lego set).

The leather shoelace then rests on the brass bushing, tethered to the bench by one spring (on the "push" side of the motor shaft rotation - i.e. 0 weight), and the "pull" side of the leather attached to the string going over the pulley down to the weight on the floor.


bolt -> spring -> leather -> spring -> string -> weight on scale

leather resting over brass motor shaft, rotating as to pull on the weight side of the leather

vise+pulley on string


To take measurements, I run the motor, take all 4 readings. I read:

V with a multimeter

A with a panel meter

speed with an oscilloscope attached to the recovery output - RPS = 1 / (msec between pulses X 2) because there are two pulses for each revolution

weight = original-weight-of-water - current-reading (i.e. the weight actually applied to motor shaft is the difference between the original weight and the slightly lifted weight).

To ratchet up to another (higher) load, I give the vise handle a few turns, lifting the pulley slightly higher and pulling more weight off of the scale.

I could run a wide range of loads by starting with different quantities of water in the jug. As I reviewed my interim results, I could see if I needed to examine a particular zone of loads more closely.

Even if this method is not good enough to give me exact, absolute HP readings, it appears to be repeatable enough to get relative readings for this motor and to find it's sweet spot.

My motor at 36V, free runs at about 4,800 RPM and is most efficient (70%-80%) with 900-1000g load running around 3,800 RPM

pt

[Robbush]

The dyno I built is like what Peter used in his first video, except mine has the spring scales mounted and one is adjustable to keep a load steady, much like you explained. In the first test I applied braking till the amp meter got to 5 amps then set the stop (nut on bolt) so all the other readings could be taken.

Also got the motor apart to see what went wrong- there are burnt commutator sections, the ones the coil connects to. I also found that three of the four coil connections to the commutator had broken off(solder), this is why motor stopped. My recovery brushes have no over lap in timing and I am wondering if this is causing the burnt sections? Or could the poor connections ( till they broke) be the cause? Also the run brushes had black areas in them too, but not the recovery. Any ideas? Should I rearrange the brush set up to have a little overlap? Peace
rawbush

[pault]

The dyno I built is like what Peter used in his first video, except mine has the spring scales mounted and one is adjustable to keep a load steady, much like you explained. In the first test I applied braking till the amp meter got to 5 amps then set the stop (nut on bolt) so all the other readings could be taken.

Also got the motor apart to see what went wrong- there are burnt commutator sections, the ones the coil connects to. I also found that three of the four coil connections to the commutator had broken off(solder), this is why motor stopped. My recovery brushes have no over lap in timing and I am wondering if this is causing the burnt sections? Or could the poor connections ( till they broke) be the cause? Also the run brushes had black areas in them too, but not the recovery. Any ideas? Should I rearrange the brush set up to have a little overlap? Peace
rawbush

Peter did not prescribe any overlap in the recovery brushes. He wanted them "close" to catch the back spike as soon as possible, but no overlap (overlap would drain power from the run).

48.8V x 5A = 244W. I think you might have overloaded it. My current winding is running below 2A, more like 1A.

Did the solder look like it broke, or did it just melt (a bit) and fatigue from the power?

How warm / hot was the motor? (Watch out, I gave myself a huge blister once, when "testing" the heat of a slot-car motor).

When my recovery brushes weren't working correctly, I could see sparks flying in the hole through which the wires came out of the case.

In my first attempt, I used 18awg wire (only 30 turns) and got the current up to 8A before the thing deformed one of the run commutators. I had to get it lathed to put it back into line. My current attempt is using 90 turns of 23awg (iirc, notes not in front of me) and draws no more than 2A.

pt

[Robbush]

Peter did not prescribe any overlap in the recovery brushes. He wanted them "close" to catch the back spike as soon as possible, but no overlap (overlap would drain power from the run).

48.8V x 5A = 244W. I think you might have overloaded it. My current winding is running below 2A, more like 1A.

Did the solder look like it broke, or did it just melt (a bit) and fatigue from the power?

How warm / hot was the motor? (Watch out, I gave myself a huge blister once, when "testing" the heat of a slot-car motor).

When my recovery brushes weren't working correctly, I could see sparks flying in the hole through which the wires came out of the case.

In my first attempt, I used 18awg wire (only 30 turns) and got the current up to 8A before the thing deformed one of the run commutators. I had to get it lathed to put it back into line. My current attempt is using 90 turns of 23awg (iirc, notes not in front of me) and draws no more than 2A.

pt

I think vibration and speed led to the wires coming off the commutator. The motor was still warm when I took it apart but no signs of any melting. I have some smaller wire 24 or 26 ga. , will rewind it (differently- more even crossovers) and see if I can get the power up and the current down. But first... to the lathe to clean up the commutator. Will post pics.
rawbush

[pault]

I think vibration and speed led to the wires coming off the commutator.

Ah. Something that is "obvious" and unspoken by people who have rewound motors in the past.

Keep the windings tight.

If the windings don't look tight enough, unwind and start again.

I re-started my windings a few times, but I didn't record the fact (because it seemed obvious) ...

The motor was still warm when I took it apart but no signs of any melting.

It doesn't need to melt, it just needs to become less stable due to heat.

My commutators don't require any soldering. Just crimping.

I have some smaller wire 24 or 26 ga. , will rewind it (differently- more even crossovers) and see if I can get the power up and the current down.

If you do achieve more even crossovers, please report the details.

More windings = higher resistance = lower current draw for the same power (V x I).

But first... to the lathe to clean up the commutator. Will post pics.
rawbush

My friend lathed my warped commuator. We found that high lathing speed was bad and resulted in a very rough finish.

Copper is soft. Use slow speed. Then, when done, use progressively finer grades of sandpaper to finish up.

And make sure that there are no shavings caught in between the commutators, shorting them out.
pt