Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[wantomake]

Great reply

Thanks mbrown,

I agree with you on the transformer action. And that the trifilar coil was the power source for the motor.

Are you still testing with the universal motor or are you using an older generator or something of the sort?

Yes, I'll be testing all the "parts" of this unit and how they affect each other. That is how I learn and can understand each working part of this project.

There are many questions as I go through each test and do appreciate your knowledge and help.

It is a slow process but a lot of fun and exciting,
wantomake
edit: If ok I do keep many notes and have copied your last post.

[mbrownn]

Yes keep notes, I want this info out.

We are using a delco remey 4 pole generator and also a 4 pole starter motor.

The current draw is huge on a starter due to the absence of BEMF so it has to be rewound, as does the armature.

The generator using standard coils can exceed 30A at 8v input.

I think we have the field coil geometry figured, the tests earlier in this thread confirmed the armature winding. So all we have to do is figure the number of turns and impedance of the triflar as the feed choke and we will be well on the way to getting a working device.

[Blargus]

Thanks mbrown, sounds like there's a lot going on. Was hoping I would get the reallybigfast spike on the recovery, or at least be pretty sure that the recovery side was doing what it is supposed to do. I'm hoping it's okay as is, I'll keep at it!

Mike

Top: Run side
Bottom: Recovery side

[wantomake]

Good progress

Yes keep notes, I want this info out.

We are using a delco remey 4 pole generator and also a 4 pole starter motor.

The current draw is huge on a starter due to the absence of BEMF so it has to be rewound, as does the armature.

The generator using standard coils can exceed 30A at 8v input.

I think we have the field coil geometry figured, the tests earlier in this thread confirmed the armature winding. So all we have to do is figure the number of turns and impedance of the triflar as the feed choke and we will be well on the way to getting a working device.

Thanks mbrown,
I also have a 1950's delco remy generator 2 pole that is very hard to get around here. Will add the motor field coils to it.

Are you referring to lap or wave windings discussed earlier? Cause I'm in process of winding the armature. I will go back and re-read that. Not sure yet on geometry of the field coils yet. Will probably make slots around the case to be able to move the fields around some. Really not much space to do that.

The balance of impedance, resonance, motor and generator and all is a challenge. True but fun with experimenting.

Experimenting,
wantomake

[mbrownn]

Most armatures are Lap wound. I believe the Lockridge was Wave wound.

You will need to adjust the field coils a little so if you slot the mounting holes this will allow for that.

Yes its a challenge. There is no information about the original device and the only information we have is what JB released about an attempted reconstruction. The stage we are at now is our original work which may or may not be how the Lockridge really was. The truth is my research seems to confirm that the lockridge was real. There are many paths to take on this but we are narrowing it down.

[wantomake]

I agree

Most armatures are Lap wound. I believe the Lockridge was Wave wound.

You will need to adjust the field coils a little so if you slot the mounting holes this will allow for that.

Yes its a challenge. There is no information about the original device and the only information we have is what JB released about an attempted reconstruction. The stage we are at now is our original work which may or may not be how the Lockridge really was. The truth is my research seems to confirm that the lockridge was real. There are many paths to take on this but we are narrowing it down.

Thanks mbrown,
Ok, wave wound it is. I'm trying to send for the wire now.

Yes the coils will need to be adjusted and there's not much room to adjust inside the casing. That's why this is taking me so long, I'm making each part and testing as I go.

No, we are alone it appears. And all of the searching hasn't turned up one piece of information in any language, other than JB and PL.

But I've worn out those vids trying to take as many notes as possible.

Warm regards and hope your research goes well,
wantomake

[mbrownn]

Your motor needs to be four pole and this is how you set it up.

x is the slots in the motor case just like on EFV14

Coils A B and the armature are powered and are in attraction. The motor does not spin.

Coils C and D are the outputs and will need to be adjusted either advanced or retarded to cause the rotor to turn. These coils must be loaded with a low impedance load or the motor does not turn.

I could say that this is an energizer and not a motor as all the motoring action is caused by the generator coils.

There are in effect two magnetic circuits. If you don't understand please ask.

[mbrownn]

Here is the FEMM showing the flux path, the energized coils being at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock and the generator coils being at 12 and 6.

Notice the flux at the energized coils and compare that with the flux on the generator coils. This is why there is little BEMF on the energized coils yet a large generated EMF.

Now combine this with a wave wound armature AKA Peter's, with recovery and you are half way to having a self running motor generator

Typically a Universal type motor is 35% efficient but with the generator being on the same core as the motor there are no additional iron losses at the generator. This also is true of any transformer actions. Yes this is still well below 100% efficiency but we have not taken into account the recovery of the pulses and the actions of the trifilar coil.

[wantomake]

Progress ?

Hey mbrown,

Was busy testing the trifilar coil and seeing interesting things. Didn't know so much power comes out of one. Like you said, "but we have not taken into account the recovery of the pulses and the actions of the trifilar coil." I want to learn more about this as I try different things. Hope to get the case finished soon so I can wrap the trifilar coil around it and see the effect it has on motor and generator coils inside.

wantomake

[mbrownn]

Although not about the Lockridge device the videos by squires and babcock teach you much about how the Lockridge works. The squires video talks about one of the main functions of the trifilar coil

[Blargus]

Hi,

I rewound my MY1016 scooter motor with 24AWG, was wondering if someone could help me interpret the oscilloscope and meter behavior (I know there might not be a simple answer). I'm pretty amateur at this, I am putting the o-scope ground on neg of batteries and tip on positive, hope that's right or I am .

The circuit is the zig-zag wound 4-pole scooter motor with internal blocking diode so there's one pulse per revolution, recovery brushes go to diode bridge which goes into 3 12V batteries in series, another 3 12V batteries in series goes to run brushes.

I've only been running it at 37.7V (trying to get eventually to 72V) and the meter on the run batteries reads anywhere from 36-51V while its running and the charge batteries start at 37.5 and go down roughly to 37.0V(some slight jumping around). Sometimes when I load the motor, the run battery voltage jumps up to 70-80V (maybe to do with the amp draw also increasing as loaded). But sometimes it is more composed and the run battery voltage when loaded only jumps to 40 or 50V and doesn't jump around as much when unloaded. It seems to go in cycles, after a few minutes it jumps up in voltage then seems to calm down a bit. The charge batteries don't seem to have much change, just a overall lowering of voltage (.5V so far). I've only run it for 10 minutes or so at a time, afterwards the voltage on the batteries goes back to the start voltage after a couple mins (can only see to the tenths with meter). It's sort of the opposite of what I expected but I think it's pretty cool.

Anyway, these look like radiant spikes---wondering if there's a way to block one polarity ie: the one that doesn't charge the battery? It doesn't seem to behave as simply as "spikes go to recovery" at least at this voltage, but it's very interesting! It's not helping me get to bed any earlier.

To/from charge battery:


From/to run battery:


Thanks Matthew Jones, Dr.L and everyone,

Mike

[mbrownn]

Difficult to give a good interpretation without knowing exactly about the windings and timing of the brushes. Placing a diode in the charging line should eliminate those reverse polarity spikes.

How many of the segments on the commutator do you have coils on?

Do your brushes short the coils at any time?

The actions of coils on an armature can be very complex.

[Blargus]

Difficult to give a good interpretation without knowing exactly about the windings and timing of the brushes. Placing a diode in the charging line should eliminate those reverse polarity spikes.

How many of the segments on the commutator do you have coils on?

Do your brushes short the coils at any time?

The actions of coils on an armature can be very complex.

Hi mbrownn,

Three commutator segments are connected together and attached to each end of the coil, the three segment groups are opposite each other. There are only two ends of one coil that goes through four slots in the zig zag pattern. I don't think the brushes ever short the coils. The recovery set of brushes I think are exactly three commutator segments from the power brushes at 90 degrees.

Could you be more specific about the diode on the charging line? I tried a diode on clip leads on all four battery terminals still the spikes even with ultra fast diodes.

It seems pretty powerful for less than 200 mA

Thanks,
Mike

[mbrownn]

that do you mean by three segment groups? maybe a sketch would help

By the way thanks for posting your scope shot, any information like this is scarce.

[Blargus]

that do you mean by three segment groups? maybe a sketch would help

By the way thanks for posting your scope shot, any information like this is scarce.

No problem, thanks for the help, I'm very happy to be working on this. This is part of a schematic Matthew Jones sent me showing the commutator and brush setup, I hope its okay with Matthew Jones to post, if not let me know.

Mike