Steorn Effect Successfully Reversed Engineered!

[gravityblock]

@sebasfato:

The things you mentioned does not eliminate the BEMF when building the magnetic field in the coil. The induced field will oppose the voltage, thus the voltage will drop (this doesn't happen in the orbo). If this isn't eliminated, then it's just another normal pulse motor. The no BEMF is the key to the orbo effect and it's related to an impedance match by using a specific number in order to have the right proportion between the voltage, current, and inductance as members of the SKDB have already stated.

Go ahead and build you a normal pulse motor. Good luck with that.

GB

[gravityblock]

If Naudin is right, then a person would want to charge at a low inductance (which charges quickly because of a low time constant) Then parametrically (parameter change) the inductance to a higher value to increase its energy state.

There is no debate about this, but does it eliminate the BEMF when building the magnetic field in the coil? No. Since there is no opposition from the induced field when building the magnetic field in the coil, then it takes near 0 inductance energy to build the field. Normal pusle motors charge at a low inductance and discharge at a higher inductance, so this can't be the Orbo effect. In the Orbo demo's, the magnets were extremely far from the coils as they pass. This means they're not charging at the lowest inductance possible, so I think it's more related to having a specific change in inductance and a certain proportion between the voltage, current, and inductance. How can anyone not see this? You guys are making the Orbo sound like a normal pulse motor. The magnets are so far away from the coils, that there is very liitle attraction, thus the need for the magnetic bearings. Don't you think they would move the magnets closer to the coils so they could charge at a much lower inductance and have more torque with higher RPM's. Of course they would, but then they wouldn't have the correct proportions for an impedance match.

GB

[sebosfato]

GB, WHen the magnet is getting closer to the coil being accelerated by the attraction to the core, the flux is varying thus you have electrical energy that you can charge into a capacitor thru a diode or a transistor than you reverse the capacitor using kind of a cross relay and discharge into the coil adding a bit of electricity, all this controlled by the optical sensors. I think this describe what i mean. The Point is that the discharge must be controlled by a resistance as to repel the magnet for enough time.

You must be able (know how) to manipulate the circuit anyway you want to achieve the effect.

Did you ever inputed a frequency into a coil and get a magnet close to it? lot of vibration depending on the situation even from very far and transversally strangely...

Time varying flux.

[gravityblock]

GB, WHen the magnet is getting closer to the coil being accelerated by the attraction to the core, the flux is varying thus you have electrical energy that you can charge into a capacitor thru a diode or a transistor than you reverse the capacitor using kind of a cross relay and discharge into the coil adding a bit of electricity, all this controlled by the optical sensors. I think this describe what i mean. The Point is that the discharge must be controlled by a resistance as to repel the magnet for enough time.

You must be able (know how) to manipulate the circuit anyway you want to achieve the effect.

Did you ever inputed a frequency into a coil and get a magnet close to it? lot of vibration depending on the situation even from very far and transversally strangely...

Time varying flux.

The dual magnets do not induce a net EMF in the torroid as they approach in order to dump the electrical energy into a capacitor when they are properly aligned. Also, the dual magnets aren't repelled from the toroid. The torroid is charged just enough to let the magnets pass. Again, you are describing a normal pulse motor. Even in the Adams motor, the coil is only charged with enough energy to let the magnets pass, instead of being repelled. The theory is, if you're repelling the magnets, then you're wasting energy. The relative motion between the magnet and coils is not the time varying flux Steorn is talking about. Again, if this was the case, then it would be a normal pulse motor. The vibration you're speaking of doesn't exist in the Orbo, for the magnetic bearings would be wobbling all over the place if it did, even when properly aligned.

GB

[gravityblock]

Don't get hung up on the TC varying due to the inductance changing. This isn't a problem if only one TC is used. Here's why. Let's assume the maximum current we need for saturation of the core material is reached after the 1 TC. Since the current had a fast rise time during the 1 TC, then any inductance change will be slight during the 1 TC and can be disregarded. Any further inductance changes will maintain the current at this level and 2 TC through 5 TC can be disregarded.

In fact, the maximum current needed to saturate the core may be one-half of the first TC. If this is the case, then the voltage/current will be equal and maintained at 50% voltage and 50% current. The voltage/current can be equal at a 1/2 TC since they are the inverse of each other, but the resistance must be correct. Here's an example

V = 12
R = 1
I = 12
1/2 TC = 6V
1/2 TC = 6A

Maximum current allowed by resistance is 12A. So, if the current increases by 50%, then the voltage will decrease by 50%, and at half of a TC the current and voltage will be equal to each other.


GB

[gravityblock]

Maximum current in less time than the TC!

Here's something to think about.

V = 12
R = 961
I = 0.01248
L = 0.961 - 1.0H
t = 0.001 - 0.00104

Fast rise time. The inductance is the inverse of the resistance. TC will remain relatively constant throughout all 5 TC's. Total rise time for current is ~ 0.005 to reach the maximum current of 0.01248 allowed by resistance. Maximum current is reached at the highest point in inductance. At higher RPM's, the Maximum current is reached in less time due to the inductance varying at the rate of the RPM, thus the system is more efficient at higher RPM. Basicly the total time for the current to reach it's maximum value allowed by the resistance will occur faster than the TC at higher RPM's, thus a "time variant field". This is where the gain is coming from. I think this is it!

GB

[gravityblock]

Based on false premesis!

Posted on OU.com

Something else to think about is that the equation you are using doesn't apply to dynamically changing inductances.

I agree, but not in this case. Compare the first TC to the fifth TC and you will see the TC's are relativley constant, thus your argument is based on false premesis. The change in inductance is varying at the rate of the RPM. At higher RPM's, the changes in inductance will vary at a faster rate, and since the TC is based on L/R and L is increasing which means "t" is decreasing at a faster rate proportional to the RPM. At a minimum RPM, the current will reach it's maximum current allowed by the resistor in less time than the ~0.005 of the total of 5 TC's. Any further increases in RPM is a gain in energy proportional to the increase above this minimal RPM, which occurs at a low RPM. This is a "time varying field" effect and is responsible for the gain in energy.

[Edit:] Try to wrap your mind around what I'm doing below. Then it will become clear to you.

Assuming the inductance is increasing 39mH from 0.961mH to 1.000H according to a RPM at a rate 5 times faster than the TC, then we have the below.

V = 12
R = 961
I = 0.01248
L = 0.961 - 1.0H
TC = 0.001 - 0.001162

V / L = Constant rate of change of current
12/ 0.961 = 12.486 in 0.001 seconds
4.44 / 1.00H = 4.44 in 0.001040 seconds. Rate of change of current is equal to the voltage. 0 inductance gain. Break even point!
1.6248 / 1.039 = 1.5638 in 0.001081 seconds. Inductance gain at this point! Rate of change of current is less than voltage. Ohms violation!
0.601176 / 1.078 = 0.55767 in 0.001121 seconds. Another gain in inductance. Rate of change of current is less than voltage. Ohms violation!
0.22243512 / 1.117 = 0.199136 in 0.001162 seconds. Another gain in inductance. Rate of change of current is less than voltage. Ohms violation!

Inductance gain of 117mH after 5 time constants.

GB

[sebosfato]

The dual magnets do not induce a net EMF in the torroid as they approach in order to dump the electrical energy into a capacitor when they are properly aligned. Also, the dual magnets aren't repelled from the toroid. The torroid is charged just enough to let the magnets pass. Again, you are describing a normal pulse motor. Even in the Adams motor, the coil is only charged with enough energy to let the magnets pass, instead of being repelled. The theory is, if you're repelling the magnets, then you're wasting energy. The relative motion between the magnet and coils is not the time varying flux Steorn is talking about. Again, if this was the case, then it would be a normal pulse motor. The vibration you're speaking of doesn't exist in the Orbo, for the magnetic bearings would be wobbling all over the place if it did, even when properly aligned.

GB

Helo, I'm trying to understand the difference of what you are describing and what i'm imagining.
Tell me, mechanically what are the cycles, what exactly happens and in what order. like

Lets say you charge the coil at the moment x when the magnet is in the relative position x, with x volts x amps, than after x seconds at a rpm of x the current or voltage or energy will increase by a factor x from calculation x because of x.

thanks for the effort trying to explain the thing, i'm really interested.

[XoFFoX]

Wow !!! Hi all ... I'm a newbie here so bear with me iph I ask stupid Q's.
I'm quite impressed by all the good exchange of ideas in this thread. I'm quite experienced in "hands on" electronic troubleshooting, a lil electronics design, electronics assembly, but the higher math stuff is Klingon to me. I'm a hands on guy ala Tesla ... not Einstein. Don't think ol Einy ever stepped away from the blackboard into a lab. The REAL world doesn't obey a blackboard or the white chalky dust scrib-blings that can be wiped away with the wave of a hand. Now that it is clear where I come from ... I'll proceed directly to attacking the math. Just kidding ... but not really ...

I was wondering as I first started surfing the various threads in Renewable Energy, where the Steorn threads were then I found this 1st one. The basic math is quite easy to follow but the higher math ( differential equations & parametric stuff ? ) is more difficult. However, as I inferred, the math on the blackboards don't always represent what happens in the REAL world ... something a very wise electronics teacher once said about troubleshooting something an engineer in some foreign country designed and never had any experience troubleshooting failures in the field. Some engineers do their homework well and their designs reflect that in the field. But the majority are blackboarders relying on numbers instead of REAL world interactions found in the lab as you work through the bugs.

Now to attacking the math ...

Posted on OU.com

V = 12
R = 961
I = 0.01248
L = 0.961 - 1.0H
TC = 0.001 - 0.001162

V / L = Constant rate of change of current
12/ 0.961 = 12.486 in 0.001 seconds
4.44 / 1.00H = 4.44 in 0.001040 seconds. Rate of change of current is equal to the voltage. 0 inductance gain. Break even point!
1.6248 / 1.039 = 1.5638 in 0.001081 seconds. Inductance gain at this point! Rate of change of current is less than voltage. Ohms violation!
0.601176 / 1.078 = 0.55767 in 0.001121 seconds. Another gain in inductance. Rate of change of current is less than voltage. Ohms violation!
0.22243512 / 1.117 = 0.199136 in 0.001162 seconds. Another gain in inductance. Rate of change of current is less than voltage. Ohms violation!

Inductance gain of 117mH after 5 time constants.

GB

Regarding this last entry from GB ... GB, you need to explain where the calculations come from starting at "12.486 in 0.001 seconds" ... where does the 0.001 secs come from ??? I more or less figured it out to some extent. When I saw 4.44 I thot ok where did that come from ? 37% of 12 volts.
So I figured out where most of those numbers came from but for those who didn't then more explanation is required. It would have made it easier for me even tho this the basic math and not the higher math, where I'd be totally lost. It's not wrong except in this line:
1.6248 / 1.039 = 1.5638 in 0.001081 seconds. Inductance gain at this point!
I figured where you got 1.6248 was from 4.44 * 37% = 1.6428 ... whaaaat!!!
A dislexic mather or a typo ... some comic relief.

More explanation is required where you get the numbers after that 2nd line up there. And now ... this violation of Ohms law business ... HOW DARE YOU !!!
What Insolence !!! What Arrogance !!! ... You should have your hair lit ablaze to symbolize the flaming heresy you dispatch and your body putrified by leeches over a very long spit roasted at exactly 24.1xxxxx degrees to cook you slowly for the feast of a thousand years about to commence on Dec 21st, 2012. ( channeling Stewie Griffin aka Seth McFarlane) but not really ...

Ok ... now to other serious matters. Why has no one addressed these issues and there are a few I have noticed.

1st - Why did Steorn change the orientation of the coils ??? Did anyone notice ???

In the 1st videos the coils were vertical, that is to say the inside (spin) axis of the toroid was perpendicular to the magnet poles. Then they switched to toroid axis parallel to magnet poles.
Again why did they do this ??? This changes the whole interaction of the magnetic structures.

Note: I also noticed that Steorn does NOT have outer circumference windings to compensate for external EMF outside the toroid. It is quite clear in the vids, they do NOT have these external windings.
Not saying they might not be important down the road. Just a thot at the moment.

2nd - Why are Steorn's coils so far away from the magnets ??? This was raised by someone earlier. They are much farther away than what one would find on a pulse motor. Which brings me to the next issue.

3rd - Why hasn't anyone here addressed the size of the magnets and subsequent magnetic flux density and field size and their interaction with their opposites ( in the CIA ) ( I work for the KGB ... actually, I used to ... they don't have as good a pension plan as the CIA ) ... ala the magnetic flux density and field size of the coils when energized ???
This interaction is going to definitely affect the variable inductance at certain points in time and at different points in space.
So this will have to be taken into consideration when calculating the rest of the mess.

Note: My replication of Naudin's Orbo V1, as a pulse motor won't even run, I built it almost exactly to Naudin's specs, except magnets used. Mine are small cylinders, 1.9 cm long by 0.5 cm diameter. Whereas, Naudin's mags are shorter length and much more diameter. Bigger surface area facing coils, different magnetic field for a given core dimension. My core dimensions were identical to Naudin's.
My cores were not 100% identifiable, only color code to go by, but according to specs I found for this color code, were close to the original cores Naudin used except mine were iron cores and his were ferrite. Reason for failure ??? Maybe ... core material ... maybe totally insufficient ability to energize coil with low winds (67) resulting in high current draw due to low inductance. Sounds right ? No ? Naudin did redo his coils so the had much more windings to minimize current draw. He went from drawing close to 4A to drawing 400mA, I think ? at ~ 12 vdc.
I have just received my order for ferrite cores at 15000 perm, way higher than my cores if I identified them correctly. The ones Larsko used linked at Naudin's site.

4th - I thinks it's true that some have replicated this effect not paying attention to the numbers. Especially the little Orbo replications, the super mini's. These use Metglas cores that have perms up to 1,000,000. But they are so so so smaaalll !!! The rpm's are incredible, like around 20,000 rpm dremel tool. The over unity aspects seem to be there but I won't believe it until I make one but that's just me.
Being very interested in numerology, I can see how numbers could play a big part in this design if you know the numbers and design the rig around something that is say ... a constant. But then nothing in this REALITY is constant or any other reality for that matter . Even the speed of light is not constant in this 3D reality and it is certainly not the same velocity in other dimensions as it is here. Higher dimensions = faster speed of light.
This cold electricity may be electricity from the 4th or 5th dimension ... who knows, it's worth a look. What harm can come from it ... oh another Stewie moment. He would turn it into a weapon to kill Lois !!! Bad Baby !!!

Ok, now I'm drunk, so what follows is the ABSOLUTE truth ... ok I'm not drinking Vodka from Russia. Some of those Russian physicists are pretty damn good and they made some great advancements, especially in the field of fields .. or wait was that, fields within fields ??? Fractals anyone ??? Their very tasty ... non fattening and high in carbs.
More comedy relief ...
If we can't laugh at this stuff and ourselves, what can we laugh at ???

If it takes me the rest of eternity, I am going to give free energy to the human masses ... if they blow themselves up with it ... that's not my problem.

Ok .. Steorn again ...
Some Steorn replications have greater variances in the inductors than others so that might rule out THE number effect. If it does that means that the effect is somewhere else ... could it be in frequency ??? Remember the law of squares and the way energy can be exponentially increased in this manner. High FREQUENCY always seems to yield more energy ... why ??? Because, the higher the vibration the more you tap into the higher dimensional realms where energy is much more abundant. The closer you get to the Source of the energy, the denser it gets, hence more output from any given technology that can tap a higher source.

I know this all gets into the realm of GOD and such ... but it makes sense logically and intuitively as well ... the balance and timing is everything. This why a device must be tuned specifically for it's present environment, as the energies are ever in flux, a state of change.

Now you all know where my head is at ... some of you may think I'm nuts, some may think I'm a genius, I'm neither ...
I am's what I am's ... and I ain't no more. ( Popeye )

Journey
aka
XoFFoX

PS> More to come when I get rolling again on my Steorn motor, now that I have some decent cores.