About the three commercially available free energy devices offered to the public

[bugler]

Hi all,

today I have seen in the peswiki newsletter that there are three commercially available free energy devices offered to the public.

I have read the links for each of this device and there are things I don't understand.

Device 1: Energy By Motion (EBM) Energy by Motion
The site claims that all their EBM Plants are scaled for manufacturing from 1.5 to 225 MW. They say that their scientific find has no faculty recognition and that they need a grant.

Why do they need faculty recognition? Who cares about that? Why don't they sell these devices. No money? Easy. Ask for money in advance and the manufacture it. This is what carpenters and many other professionals do so why not them?

Device 2: Black light power. Plasma electrolysis
JP Biberian says: "Science is a fascinating field and I would like to share this passion with others…"

According to the newsletter: "The Japanese Hokkaido University Plasma electrolysis experiment has achieved mind boggling results. As per their conclusions: 'current efficiency' is 8000% to the input!".

Then we come to "Black light power could of had this technology in circulation years ago, however due to the mainstream curriculum's unwillingness to upgrade their knowledge and or investigate, it has prevented them from any real time momentum
...
Imagine being able to convert water into a boundless source of cheap energy. That's what BlackLight Power, a 25-employee firm in Cranbury, N.J., says it can do. The only problem: Most scientists say that company's technology violates the basic laws of physics."

Then it goes to explan that there were problems with one of the patents: "the patent office enough to pull the patent (which is actually illegal – to withdraw a patent application which had already been approved to be issued – according to patent law, an invention can be patented if it demonstrably works"

So once again these guys has already developed free energy and are concerned with university recognition and can't sell anything due to a patent issue.

Why do they need university recognition? Why can't they sell the device?

Device 3: Hidro+. Hidro Online
These guys generate electricity using high tanks of water. They claim "Earlier tests (in 1990s), experiments and data were derived from Hidro Test-Rig and subsequent Hidro Demonstration Unit measuring 4.5meter tower height. The Hidro+ Group are currently in the process of building the world’s first complete facility for HidroLinear power generation, a full-scale commercial HidroLinear power plant will be in place as early as 2010/11".

So they are about to make and sell a free energy device. Nothing weird yet but I guess we will never see this device in the market like so many others about-to-sell devices.

Any idea how this device works? Their 1mw device deesn't seem so big in the picture.

************************************************** *******

The information regarding devices 1 and 2 seems suspicious and weird.

Opinions?

[stevend]

Device 3: Hidro+. Hidro Online
These guys generate electricity using high tanks of water. They claim "Earlier tests (in 1990s), experiments and data were derived from Hidro Test-Rig and subsequent Hidro Demonstration Unit measuring 4.5meter tower height. The Hidro+ Group are currently in the process of building the world’s first complete facility for HidroLinear power generation, a full-scale commercial HidroLinear power plant will be in place as early as 2010/11".

So they are about to make and sell a free energy device. Nothing weird yet but I guess we will never see this device in the market like so many others about-to-sell devices.

Any idea how this device works? Their 1mw device deesn't seem so big in the picture.

He explains how it works in his video on the page you give a link to. It's near the top right - click on PLAY.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org

[bugler]

Thanks. I hadn't seen it.

I am not sure I have understood the whole thing.

1. The lower bottle is initially full of water
2. The water is removed by high pressure air from the lower reservoir at high pressure.
3. The bottle then goes up full of air.
4. Then the bottle empties its high pressure air into the top reservoir and gets full of water so it goes down.

Does it work this way?

If so, the top reservoir must be in vacuum and the lower reservoir has compressed air. But the compressors consume energy.

[stevend]

Thanks. I hadn't seen it.
Does it work this way?

If so, the top reservoir must be in vacuum and the lower reservoir has compressed air. But the compressors consume energy.

What you list is half of what he described but it's still only a quarter of a complete cycle i.e. his animation is only half the cycle. I don't think it works at all. Just continue with the steps needed to repeat a complete cycle and get the two bottles back to their starting positions. He says he has a working unit but he doesn't show it working. Too bad. I couldn't find his patents either.

These types of systems can be made to work on paper if you have no losses and no loads. The only energy in this system is that which was used to set all the pressures at the start. After that it runs down and stops. Fun to think through though. I once spent a Sunday morning with physics book out and calculated one of these out fully. Without losses or load, all my energy transfers balanced out. I even built part of it for fun.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org

[sebosfato]

Yes it works, I read some patents about this buoyancy generators..

The principle is that the pressure under water times the hole of the air tube is the only force you need to win, or the power you need to input. The air will just get in the buoy (while water get out) and it will go up for almost free... On the upside you need to use this air to pump into the other buoy, so you use the remained pressure again obviously will be a smaller however you than just add more energy and you get the pressure for the next cycle.

The fact is that Its cost per watt is pretty much the same as new generation solar panels...

[stevend]

you than just add more energy and you get the pressure for the next cycle

It's the above part I have a problem with.

Anyway, here's some more info.
http://sustainablepowerstation.com
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org

[sebosfato]

The system will consume some energy but in the end you will have more energy than you put in.

Think about this, you have a pump, this pump will need to develop some pressure to overcome the water pressure to let the air get out of the tube to be able to fill the buoy, this needed pressure is = to the water pressure in the bottom of the tank divided by the area of the air tube port.

When you just overcome this pressure the air will flow out of the tube. When the buoy is full it will float up.

The pressure you need to apply to the tube is smaller than the pressure of the water in the bottom of the tank cause the pipe will be smaller.

When the thing get up to the top there will be still pressure inside of it so you can use this pressure + little more and charge the other buoy to make it buoy up.

Is not very clear the process, and i you fail in balancing the things will never get over efficiency. However can be done.

I think that the higher the tank the greater the efficiency will be. The tank should be closed to help the pressure discharge...

When the buoy is going up the air will start to flow out of the buoy, and you will loose pressure if the tank is open. when you discharge the pressure inside the top of the tank it will actually push the buoy down adding with the gravity force.

like this YouTube - Submarino de garrafa pet. Principios de Pascal e Arquimedes

[sebosfato]

This illustrates what i'm saying about the pressure YouTube - Agua que no cae, fundamento fÃsico

[stevend]

Well, I'll have to give it some more study. In the meantime, I found a patent:
HYDRODYNAMIC ENERGY GENERATION SYSTEM
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationD...076727A1&KC=A1

Thanks for the video link. I didn't understand that language but I could see what he was doing. Pretty cool how simple the method of demonstration is.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org

[sebosfato]

Well, I'll have to give it some more study. In the meantime, I found a patent:
HYDRODYNAMIC ENERGY GENERATION SYSTEM
espacenet — Original document

Thanks for the video link. I didn't understand that language but I could see what he was doing. Pretty cool how simple the method of demonstration is.
-Steve
rimstar.org - Solar/wind, composting, non-conventional energy/propulsion Wave Structure of Matter (WSM)

Yes this is one of the many patents about this. Cool one though.

Happy to help.

[ENRG]

Would you buy one?

Hello from a newbie to your forum.
I am familiar with this “art” and would like to point out a few things. Over unity is a wonderful thing except for one little problem. This device might work but will it produce enough energy to be commercially marketable? I think not for many reasons that we can discuss at a later time. What I would like to point out now is an enormous discrepancy in written claims that have been made.
The hidro websitehttp://www.sabina.com.au/annualreport/downloads/Green_Energy_Power.pdf shows an artist’s rendering of what a 1MW unit would look like. The inventor states that each unit or column is approximately 3.5 x 3.5 x 18 +/- meters. Thirteen columns combined would create the claimed 1MW of power with a footprint of about 750m3. Understand that a unit this size has apparently not been built.
Now a recent publication .LUA10-0272part2_Renewable_Energy_Generation_Tower_Loudan a_130_Sallys_Corner_Rd_Exeter_28-04-2010.pdf - Powered by Google Docs (about June 2010) shows the Hidro people asking for a spot in a sort of Green Industrial Park . Their description of the single column unit with the dimensions shown above would be a first stage “full scale” working model. In this document it is stated that this full size working model would generate15KVA or their conversion 15KW. You do the math. 13 units would be about 195KW. If this is not a misprint then you’re looking at a device that produces energy but at an enormous cost per KW. Stated price for a 13 column unit would be approximately 2 Million.
There’s much more to discuss here but for the present what are your thoughts?

[wetissues]

There Is No Free Energy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no free energy availiable in this world. The whole deal of electrolysis is total bull$hit. There is no free energy in that, but using small amounts of energy to break down the atomic structure of water and use the hydrogen and oxygern in a better way, combustion. When it burns, heat is produced. This is simple energy conversion. All of those people who have said that there is free energy, they are two 2 year olds.

[sebosfato]

There is no free energy availiable in this world. The whole deal of electrolysis is total bull$hit. There is no free energy in that, but using small amounts of energy to break down the atomic structure of water and use the hydrogen and oxygern in a better way, combustion. When it burns, heat is produced. This is simple energy conversion. All of those people who have said that there is free energy, they are two 2 year olds.

So i'm 2 years old.

How old are you?

How much time of your life you spent trying to understand why there is no free energy?

How many times, economical interests came to your mind?

How much do you think the economical interests in a world free of free energy, can cause influences on the information you learn on the university or school?

Do they want you to know it?

Do you really wanna know?

Do they know everything?

You can't prove something that you haven't see.

And you certainly didn't saw everything!

So if you are 100 years old and still think you already know everything and that everything you ever learn apply for everything, in your self conception you only have 1 year old.

[wetissues]

So i'm 2 years old.

How old are you?

How much time of your life you spent trying to understand why there is no free energy?

How many times, economical interests came to your mind?

How much do you think the economical interests in a world free of free energy, can cause influences on the information you learn on the university or school?

Do they want you to know it?

Do you really wanna know?

Do they know everything?

You can't prove something that you haven't see.

And you certainly didn't saw everything!

So if you are 100 years old and still think you already know everything and that everything you ever learn apply for everything, in your self conception you only have 1 year old.

So you are saying that its alright to make the public some dumb people. No, in the interest of the economy and advertising; it would be alright to say that theres free energy, no, but it would be alright to say that its (whatever it is) energy efficient. Also, i've seen it. If there was free energy, the world go kaboom by frikkin terrorists. That means that energy comes out of thin air clever clogg. At energetic forum, people are experimenting with energy effecient stuff, not this 'free energy' bull$hit.

[Farmhand]

There is no free energy availiable in this world. The whole deal of electrolysis is total bull$hit. There is no free energy in that, but using small amounts of energy to break down the atomic structure of water and use the hydrogen and oxygern in a better way, combustion. When it burns, heat is produced. This is simple energy conversion. All of those people who have said that there is free energy, they are two 2 year olds.

wetissues, please define the meaning of the word free !

At least give us your definition, if you don't mind that is.

I suppose next you will say there is no such thing as free sunshine. And that sunshine is not energy.

If you would like an argument about this, I will oblige you. After all I have lots of free time.

Regards