Flashing CFLs at night, when they are off?

[elias]

Hello,

There has been a question in my mind, that I decided to put it over here, to find solutions. Actually I want to set up an investigation to this matter. It may present a solution to our energy problems.

Why do some CFLs flash periodically when the switch is off in some locations?

I even had a friend COMPLAIN that these flashing lights don't let him sleep well at night, actually somehow ALL of his mounted CFLs on the roof were flashing in periods of less than a second when they were off.

It seems to me that the circuit of these CFLs charge a capacitor from some kind of a ground connection without drawing "normal closed loop current", thus discharges in to the tube after reaching a certain voltage.

Not all CFLs are like this, and it does not seem to happen some times, and also it does not seem to happen everywhere.

Any clues, or ideas?

[sebosfato]

Interesting, here in my country they are used a lot and i never saw or heard about this. Maybe is consequence of the switch. The switches for house or any other type of common equipment only connect or disconnect one of the wires. His transformer in his case is oscillating with the remained connection, as there is a frequency. Probably the current is so low for it is supposedly switched off (maybe there is a parasitic ground closing the circuit), thus depending on how the circuit is arranged it can be that is a charging pump arrange like the stan vic, so this capacitor will aways charge every oscillation but as in the primary there is only a very very low current "induced" it will takes long for reaching the voltage at witch the gas ionizes into the bulb and thus discharge the capacitor. This would explain why it flash periodically and interrupt you friends sleep. Suggest him to make a double switch to turn of both the wires of the line from the lamp and check if it happens again. This way we could determine if i'm right.

I think it could have to do with my theory about the induction of the motion of the free electrons of the copper (deflection) by effect of electric field force, by charge density or absence.

I think that if we could find a material in witch this electrons could flow at a high speed we could get benefit of this effect.

What you think about that?

Best Regards =)

[Peter Lindemann]

Other Possibilities

Hi Elias,

Another possibility is that your friend's house is wired wrong and the light switch in his bedroom is on the Neutral line instead of the HOT line. This may account for the periodic charging and discharging of the capacitor, like Sebosfato has proposed.

I have noticed that CFLs flash once in a dark room whenever I touch the light switch, BEFORE I turn the light on. So, they are very susceptible to electrostatic discharges and voltage spikes.

Peter

[Freezer]

Could be a ghost.

YouTube - Ghost Adventures Clovis Wolfe Manor 2

[elias]

Another possibility is that your friend's house is wired wrong and the light switch in his bedroom is on the Neutral line instead of the HOT line. This may account for the periodic charging and discharging of the capacitor, like Sebosfato has proposed.

Thanks for the answer, but I searched other forums and apparently someone changed the Neutral line with the Hot line and it was still flashing. I will try this.

This does not happen with every CFL, and it depends on the make and it also does not happen on every plug.

I am not interested to make the flashing go away, rather the opposite, I want to see if it can be regarded as a way to charge a capacitor with one wire.

Elias

[sniky]

I can tell you what the problem is
- THE SWITCH
do not use switch that have a light in them(that you see at night) and would not flash anymore...

[sebosfato]

Than get a vic like transformer having a secondary and choke and diode and a capacitor connected in series and connect he the primary to the line, and the other side of the primary connect to a big mass of copper or aluminum or anything metallic. Will work as long as you connect to the one of the hot lines generally there are two each one bringing 110v and one being the grownd, or sometimes can be 2x 55v out of phase to make the 110 v... if is the first case the chance to get it to work is greater.

If you add a capacitor in parallel with the primary to match the resonant frequency of the line should give better results in my opinion. also if the secondary side is tuned somehow.

charging by induction.

[elias]

I can tell you what the problem is
- THE SWITCH
do not use switch that have a light in them(that you see at night) and would not flash anymore...

If you mean switches with neon lamps in them to have visibility at night, no it isn't of that type. It is a normal switch.

[elias]

Than get a vic like transformer having a secondary and choke and diode and a capacitor connected in series and connect he the primary to the line, and the other side of the primary connect to a big mass of copper or aluminum or anything metallic. Will work as long as you connect to the one of the hot lines generally there are two each one bringing 110v and one being the grownd, or sometimes can be 2x 55v out of phase to make the 110 v... if is the first case the chance to get it to work is greater.

If you add a capacitor in parallel with the primary to match the resonant frequency of the line should give better results in my opinion. also if the secondary side is tuned somehow.

charging by induction.

I suspect that it is some kind of one wire transmission of energy Tesla talks about ...

[sebosfato]

I suspect that it is some kind of one wire transmission of energy Tesla talks about ...

Yes it is = to charging by induction. The house wiring is like a capacitor or you can say like a part of a resonant tank, one witch the transformer from the line make part of. If you add a capacitor with the right capacitance for the line you will create a resonance on the line. Anyway all this to say that the line transformer have probably very high current capability, maybe up to 1000 amps... so if you think of the wires as capacitive plates you can see that you are messing around with the charges on the wire. This distribution of electric field being connected to the primary of the transformer will create a movement on the electrons on the wire. All this in my point of view not connected to the work necessary to push and pull the charge on the wires as is not a closed circuit.


Don't add such a capacitor to the line or you will or can create a disaster.

I tried and every time i connected it the fuses blowed up. is very strange indeed. If you have a water capacitor of particular shape (steel tube inside an acrylic tube. (the one you ca see in my youtube channel on the prototype video) And connect to the line thru a dc full wave bridge rectifier to it with only one of the wires and than disconnect the first and connect the other wire, you will create a very high pulse that will burn the fuses without even closing the circuit just touching one wire and than disconnecting and than touching the other at least in my house in milan this happened aways every time, i repeated many times. The explanation i found is that the electric field on the line charged the water by induction like, and than the other wire saw it as a short circuit.

SOmething i found thinking about today is that if you have a capacitor charged and than take out the dielectric from inside of it or lower the dielectric value magically, you will raise the energy stored in the capacitor.
Like if you raise the separation of the plates while already charged.

We could think of a capacitor that changes its capacitANCE by action of the gravity field. Like having two charged spheres one on the top of the water. You charge the spheres and than make the under sphere to drop. Doing this the charge will remain the same but the voltage will raise up so as its energy all this by action of the gravity. When the sphere arrives in the "ground" having a spring some of the kinetic energy could be used to push the sphere up again with some more energy coming from the gain...
Don't know maybe is possible.

[sucahyo]

This remind me of one wire electricity. Maybe the diode inside create a AV plug then when the cap is full the neon flashes.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

neon and two way switching

Hi All

I had the same problem, well still do, but found out the problem, it was the neon in the wall switch when used with a two way switching circuit such as in bedrooms. If you want to stop this from happening then remove the neon, the neon allows a current to pass to charge up the cap in the CFL and once up to a certain voltage it discharges.

Mike

[kick-bak]

flashing CFL

Well I've got the same problem with flashing cfl's. Thought it was a normal
thing for these new curly type ones. They seem to flash every few minutes
or so on two different circuits, and no these light switchs do not have the
neon bulbs in them.

[elias]

Hi All

I had the same problem, well still do, but found out the problem, it was the neon in the wall switch when used with a two way switching circuit such as in bedrooms. If you want to stop this from happening then remove the neon, the neon allows a current to pass to charge up the cap in the CFL and once up to a certain voltage it discharges.

Mike

I don't think so because my switch doesn't have a neon bulb.