Wikileaks: Here to Save Democracy!

[uusedman]

@RedRightHand

I find it rather suspicious that you are posting about wikileaks a few days after their leaks of the secret American cables. Maybe you are planted to promote the fading effect of Wikileaks since it has been known that Julian Assange gets annoyed from facts of major events that shaped our modern world.

@Aaron
Can you please cross check RedRightHand's Ip address to see if it does originate in Australia?

Certain countries and even certain groups have been known to blog to promote the perspective they are employed to do and defend its cause. I have my reason to suspect that the time you got an account on energeticforum.com (11/30/10) coincides with release of the cables.

[Shamus]

And the US makes a completely predictable move:

Senators unveil anti-WikiLeaks bill - The Hill's Hillicon Valley

[pha3z]

Sound Sense

I would just like to put in some sound sense.

I am very much an alternative energy advocate like everyone else here. I refuse to participate in the Beast system of Revelation which is already being constructed right in front of us. It is becoming a world where you can't even put food on your table unless you are willing to practice corrupted morals and break God's Law. I will NOT submit to man's will and go against God. I quit my job last year because of this. I will not help them do their evil.

That in mind, there is a debate going back and forth about how wikileaks could potentially be an intentional threat to assist the government in pushing their cyber laws through. I'm going to state a fact here:
Regardless of the real motive behind Wikileaks, the government WILL use this to further their cause of locking down the internet and the press. The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 was introduced to the Senate in April by the tyrant Rockefellar family. They are making huge efforts to continue to lock down the internet and they could very well succeed. I hope they fail, but they are going to pull out whatever guns it takes.

Let me point out that Free Press IS going to continue to grow. This was foretold by Jesus and his followers. It is written "In the last days, information will abound." There will be so much information being passed around in the last days, how in the world could the governments lock all of it down completely. They will try hard but they will not succeed in stopping all of it.

Let me secondly state that this free press is NOT going to secure some kind of utopia or progress of human thought. Humanity is the same as it always was. Evil people work to take control. God-fearing people work to keep focus on God's Law. And most people behave somewhere in between. The end will come because humanity is tainted by self-seeking ways which always lead us to "invent ways of doing evil" as Romans states.

Our best hope is to mitigate the disaster and to turn our hearts and minds toward Jesus -- hoping to encouraging others to do the same.

I warn everyone here: Do not think that a utopia will evolve. Every man dies and evil spirits work to subvert every good thing which has been done. Keep your focus on where we are all going -- to face God on Judgment Day.

When we are judged, our guilt will bear witness to our sinfulness. We have committed treason against God. If you want to escape the punishment, your only choice is to surrender to Jesus. He already paid the price on the cross so that He could offer us reconciliation to God. But it is up to each individual to receive that gift. If you do not repent and receive the Spirit of Jesus Christ into your life, you will not see Heaven. Jesus said "Anyone who denies me stands condemned already."

[noises]

Lets drop the bickering about wikileaks being a tool of the CIA and all the rest of this "wikileaks stole my baby and doesn't hate the jews enough," garbage and cut to the heart of the matter.

What this story is about is a breach of Julian Assange's human rights (plural) and an attack on a free and open press. The following are the articles of the 1948 declaration of human rights which are being threatened in Julian's case.


Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. (including Julian Assange)

Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. (ditto.)

Article 11
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. (no matter who their lawyer is tied to.)

Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. (a free press is a fundamental human right, not just a first amendment right for Americans. This, and article 28 {following} is the critical, pivotal point of this entire case.)

Article 28
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized. (in other words, we all have a right to live in a free world where these rights are assured and protected, even if the American govt. objects.)

Article 30
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein. (hear that sarah palin? nothing in the above can be used an excuse to attack anyone's fundamental human rights!)

And finally, this document is called the Universal Declaration of HUMAN rights, not the universal declaration of any government's or corporation's rights, or the universal declaration of people who agree with the american' government's rights, these rights are the birthright of every human being. We fought world wars to assure everybody has these rights. they are the foundation of personal freedom in the world.

So please, try to put down your favorite political cause for a moment, try to stop looking for reasons to make this about who wikileaks is or isn't affiliated with. Stop bickering about the minor details.

If you have a shred of human decency, contact your state and federal government representatives and demand clear assurances that Jullian Assange, the person, will have his god-given human rights advocated for, protected and assured by your government, where ever you live.

After his rights as a human being have been protected and his freedom assured, then we can start taking about the far less important details of how closely the CIA and Mossad are or aren't working with a man who is currently a political prisoner being held in solitary confinement, without any charge that makes any legal sense.

This is not about the CIA., This is not about Jews. This is not about 911. This is not even about Jesus. This is about an innocent advocate of freedom of information, transparency of govt and freedom of the press who is currently rotting in jail for god knows what trumped up half baked crimes they'll eventually accuse him of.

Worry about your cause de jour later, once he's free, if that's not asking too much.

And if you'd be so good, you might also ask why the people calling for his death have not been charged with incitement to murder. They've been doing it on prime time television, it's not like here's a shortage of witnesses.

RRH, greets from Cairns.

Namaste all.

[ashtweth]

Counter effort? Whats been done since the documents have been released, they need the organization to work with lawyers/groups etc ,i think people should also focus on how a counter efforts can be managed FROM THE LEAKS.

Ash

[bugler]

noises yoy have a good point there.

In Europe, Canada & Australia there are political prissioners. People jailed for their opinions who hasn't hurt anyone or anything. The so-called thought crimes.

It is a terrible thing completely ignored by the corrupt media that only talk about the political prissioners of Cuba & China ignoring our political prissioners as if they didn't exist.

[crackahcrackah]

So you want to shutdown wikileaks because you already know about the leaks? NEWSFLASH! Most reporters in the world had ALL THESE CABLES, they just were too scared to print them! You want to shut down the organization that is doing the job of 'spreading the truth' that YOU and media could not do? Sorry I don't see your logic.

I also don't see your logic in 'Arabs want to bomb Iran conspiracy - a quick history lesson will show you Arabs have ALWAYS wanted to attack IRAN / PERSIA.

Where are you getting this from? Have you been watching FOX NEWS?

Red

You're obviously hawking wikileaks like it's a product. I don't know that it's a productive use of time to engage "Red" in discussion on this topic as he is creating issues out of nothing and in the process making a source of information out to be equivalent to "truth", which no individual can claim a monopoly on.

NEWSFLASH, hardly any one would have heard about wikileaks if it wasn't for the feigned anger on stations like FAUX news. It is quite a simple illusion for a highly discredited news source to attack a "new" news source in an effort to freely advertise and legitimize that new source. Wikileaks is a joke to any one who independently researches issues. Auto-didacts already know about what is published at wikileaks precisely because wikileaks is not a monopoly on reality, and they already know that certain HUGE issues are not being touched because those issues are BIG LIES of propaganda that form the reality for the brainwashed.

It's a known FACT that internet forums are being used to attempt to influence the attitude of the masses. I've nailed more than my share of individuals who are intentionally promoting BS. Your responses belie your motives, but I'm not a moderator so I can't eliminate those who are intentionally deceiving others and WASTING their time.

[crackahcrackah]

@RedRightHand

I find it rather suspicious that you are posting about wikileaks a few days after their leaks of the secret American cables. Maybe you are planted to promote the fading effect of Wikileaks since it has been known that Julian Assange gets annoyed from facts of major events that shaped our modern world.

Aren't they obvious? The patterns are serious problems for propagandists. They tend to come in waves at various forums. Some of them are more aggressive than others in attempting to shape the attitude of readers. They always post topics and issues that are irrelevant or tangential to the forum/threads.

[crackahcrackah]

Lets drop the bickering about wikileaks being a tool of the CIA and all the rest of this "wikileaks stole my baby and doesn't hate the jews enough," garbage and cut to the heart of the matter.

What this story is about is a breach of Julian Assange's human rights (plural) and an attack on a free and open press. The following are the articles of the 1948 declaration of human rights which are being threatened in Julian's case.

You can try to reframe this entire issue all you want but it does not eliminate the fact that it must be viewed in light of propaganda. Talmudists and Zionists will always reframe statements of fact, that they do not wish to have discussed as "hate" or "anti-semetic", which is a dishonest means of conduct.

Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. (including Julian Assange)

Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. (ditto.)

Article 11
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. (no matter who their lawyer is tied to.)

Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. (a free press is a fundamental human right, not just a first amendment right for Americans. This, and article 28 {following} is the critical, pivotal point of this entire case.)

Article 28
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized. (in other words, we all have a right to live in a free world where these rights are assured and protected, even if the American govt. objects.)

Article 30
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein. (hear that sarah palin? nothing in the above can be used an excuse to attack anyone's fundamental human rights!)

And finally, this document is called the Universal Declaration of HUMAN rights, not the universal declaration of any government's or corporation's rights, or the universal declaration of people who agree with the american' government's rights, these rights are the birthright of every human being. We fought world wars to assure everybody has these rights. they are the foundation of personal freedom in the world.

Unfortunately, you're citing a subsection of a list of concepts that not every one agrees upon or agrees to be governed by. Absolutely no one is bound to what is written in legal documents unless they agree to it, but those doing business in the corporations known as "government" are claiming a monopoly to force others to abide by their rules.

So please, try to put down your favorite political cause for a moment, try to stop looking for reasons to make this about who wikileaks is or isn't affiliated with. Stop bickering about the minor details.

When assessing information, it's only logical to assess the source. If one knows from experience that another is an unrepentant liar, then it is only logical to question what is said. In other words, why buy into what is presented by the other party? To claim that assessing the source, and reading between the lines is an issue of minor details is to miss the BIG picture. Contextual cues are critical in creating an accurate appraisal of reality. And you're literally telling people to focus on your own political issue, freedom of speech. What's wrong with someone focusing on the VERACITY of that speech? Oh wait, that's a minor detail...right?

If you have a shred of human decency, contact your state and federal government representatives and demand clear assurances that Jullian Assange, the person, will have his god-given human rights advocated for, protected and assured by your government, where ever you live.

Do you not understand that those DBA the government are currently: bribed, extorted, blackmailed, and ideologically tied in with Jewish interests? People who are intellectually honest with themselves should be aware of these issues by now. It's not a difficult thing to research how people in power are manipulated, and who benefits from the manipulation. And it is not "hate" to state the facts surrounding such things. But labeling such statements of fact as "hate" is either attitude conditioning or attempts to shut down a discussion of those facts.

After his rights as a human being have been protected and his freedom assured, then we can start taking about the far less important details of how closely the CIA and Mossad are or aren't working with a man who is currently a political prisoner being held in solitary confinement, without any charge that makes any legal sense.

If you are a proponent of freedom, then why not let each individual behave as they decide? It would behoove you to be consistent with your own behavior, otherwise it's hard to take you seriously. The last I checked, there's been a bunch of muslims down in Cuba who have been tortured and imprisoned for years on end. Where's the clamor for these boys and men? And that doesn't even touch on the individuals who people have forgotten that have gone up against the corrupt government officials only to be thrown in the american gulag system.

This is not about the CIA., This is not about Jews. This is not about 911. This is not even about Jesus. This is about an innocent advocate of freedom of information, transparency of govt and freedom of the press who is currently rotting in jail for god knows what trumped up half baked crimes they'll eventually accuse him of.

You're really REALLY trying hard to reframe this issue in the manner YOU want every one else to focus on it. The funny thing is, I humbly view myself as an intelligent and well read individual, and I disagree with every single one of your points. It would be nice if this was as simple of an issue as you attempt to make it, but it isn't. Now if you want to believe that it's simple and straight forward, go right ahead, but your arguments are far too weak, given my own research, to convince me of their validity.

Worry about your cause de jour later, once he's free, if that's not asking too much.

Yes, we pea brains should keep it simple and not attempt to think about more than one trivial thing at a time. Is there any thing else you would like to tell us to do with our freedom of thought?

And if you'd be so good, you might also ask why the people calling for his death have not been charged with incitement to murder. They've been doing it on prime time television, it's not like here's a shortage of witnesses.

It's called propaganda. That's why they can get away with it. It's also something that should raise deeper questions on the issue, but we're not supposed to think deep are we?


BEAM ME UP SCOTTIE!

[crackahcrackah]

noises yoy have a good point there.

In Europe, Canada & Australia there are political prissioners. People jailed for their opinions who hasn't hurt anyone or anything. The so-called thought crimes.

It is a terrible thing completely ignored by the corrupt media that only talk about the political prissioners of Cuba & China ignoring our political prissioners as if they didn't exist.

Yeh but those people jailed in Europe are "haters", don' cha know? You're a hater if you question war propaganda. It doesn't matter if the war was in 1945 or today. You're supposed to goose step with the criminals who have the capacity to punish you.

[RedRightHand]

Hi All,

Thanks for your comments, they have been very constructive... except crackah..


Bugler,
I apologize, I thought you wanted wikileaks to shut down.
My assumption - my bad - sorry!
I also think it is very sad that Australian News reports on political prisoners in other countries - but is NOT ALLOWED to report on the political prisoners we have locked up in our own country. Very sad...


Uusedman,
What am I meant to say to that? Someone else on this forum accused me of the same thing but for an entirely different subject - Paranoia! Do you always get paranoid when someone disagrees with you?
There is such a thing as been 'lost' in the myriad of conspiracy theories, I believe you are suffering from this condition. I feel sorry for you, must be a very scary place your reality.


Noises,
Your post was perfect, you are obviously Australian - because you see the world as it actually is, not through Americanized propaganda glasses.
I was speaking to my American mate in Cairns last week, he doesn't feel he can go back to America, after been out for 2 years and seeing how very different the world looks from outside the American Bubble. Is eyes are open now, and he knows that if he goes back, the propaganda will slowly close his eyes again.
Alas, your post is right on the money, I could not of written it better myself! I welcome you to post more and even help me answer some of these 'lost' conspiracy theorists.
Namaste mate! I am also a Buddhist! Hello from Julatten!
P.S. Ever get in contact with Lutec? I couldn't...


Pha3z,
Your are very correct Internet Censorship, is a HUGE problem! I think even bigger then wikileaks, if the internet is censored then wikileaks is useless.
Maybe you should start a new thread on this subject?

The remainder of your post I will reply by saying this:
Not everyone here is Christian, your post could offend some people, maybe just tone it down a little. My beliefs are different from yours, I do not wish to 'wait' for Judgment Day. I believe "God" is within you, me and that tree, we all have the power within ourselves to do anything, including creating that utopia we dream of. I believe in Free Will, not Determinism - I believe our path is not set, but we have the power to choose our own future both individually and as a species.
I guess I have a bit more of a positive outlook when it comes to our future and our ability to create a "Venus Project" type society.
You have expressed your beliefs, I have told you my beliefs. Done! - Maybe we could keep religion out of this thread from now on. Not a digg at you, just think it will keep the discussion on track.


Shamus,
Nice article, well spotted. Whatever leaks are still to come must be MAJOR WORLD CHANGING STUFF!


CrackaCrackah,

Firstly, try to spend some time thinking before you post to this thread.

You say I am deceiving everyone and wasting their time?
I am not making anyone read this thread, so please don't let me waste any more of your time. Simple! Don't read this thread anymore! Goodbye!

Secondly,
I would like to inform you there is a place outside of the USA called the world, it's a lot different from the USA - I don't think you would recognize it!

Wikileaks is well praised around the world as a source, only in USA is it only known by the debate against it. Time to wake up my friend, the rest of the world sees things a lot differently to the USA. (Aaron... Not all USA ppl r bad)

Most people do already know the truth, and the information wikileaks is providing has been provided to other media outlets. The difference with Wikileaks is they actually publish the material, everyone else who has tried, has failed to do so. Two million people in the USA have security clearances to see this information anytime they like. There are lots and lots of whistle-blowers, what there hasn't been recently, is a media organization that would print whistle-blower material.

Your reply to Noises was to say the least, a little disturbing...

You don't believe in the Human Rights Declaration?
I hope you spend a night in a Thailand prison, like I have, only then will you realize how important this document is and how YOU would not be alive without it!

You call yourself a intelligent and well read individual - if you do not agree with Human Rights you are neither of these things.

Where is your thread to support the stopping of tortured Cubans? The rest of the world reports about it everyday, but we can't make USA stop, USA has to stop itself. Some of us believe wikileaks might be able to make the USA wake up and stop it's out of control government!

Incitement to Murder is a serious offense, it is not propaganda.
These people should have a day in court, call your lawyer, start helping!

Take a day or two, watch some international news, read a few international articles with an OPEN MIND - If after this you are still convinced wikileaks is evil and needs to be stopped. State your reasons clearly and logically with supporting references and we can talk, no more dribble!


Thanks everyone else!

Red

[RedRightHand]

Sorry couldn't help myself!

@RedRightHand

I find it rather suspicious that you are posting about wikileaks a few days after their leaks of the secret American cables. Maybe you are planted to promote the fading effect of Wikileaks since it has been known that Julian Assange gets annoyed from facts of major events that shaped our modern world.
WHAT THE? Fading? Assange gets annoyed from facts of major events?
Please explain - you are not making very much sense.

@Aaron
Can you please cross check RedRightHand's Ip address to see if it does originate in Australia?
This also doesn't make any sense.
If I was a wikileaks agent wouldn't I fake a Australian IP anyway, they are hackers right?
Shouldn't any SMART person who uses this forum and posts sensitive information on it be using simple security measures like IP rerouting etc?
If you didn't take simple security and/or used your real name in posts - you are basically giving the CIA, FBI etc all your details. e.g. DrStiffler???

Certain countries and even certain groups have been known to blog to promote the perspective they are employed to do and defend its cause.

I believe it's called Public Relations and Foreign Relations.
I don't think you need to worry, somehow I think this forum is still too left field to warrant the cost of a misinformation agent.
Seems you guys already do a great job of that yourselves!

I have my reason to suspect that the time you got an account on energeticforum.com (11/30/10) coincides with release of the cables.

Sorry I couldn't help myself, you post was just so silly.
For the record I am NOT been paid to post here, I am posting here because I do one small good thing for Earth each week.
Hey, I was feeling lazy this week, so shoot me...
I will plant a tree next week I promise!


Red

[RedRightHand]

Moving On...

A few good reads...

Letter From Canada: Why Is America So Furious About Wikileaks?

Ron Paul Defends WikiLeaks On House Floor | Ron Paul Speech on Julian Assange | Video | Mediaite

Randall Amster: The Blog of War: WikiLeaks Exposes Business-as-usual, and a New Battle Ensues

Red

[RedRightHand]

A few good videos...

YouTube - True News: The Truth About Wikileaks

YouTube - Ron Paul calls Wikileaks Heros

Red

[cikljamas]

How these atrocities (Iraq & Afganistan) began in the first place ?
Like this :
YouTube - Bush Caught Lying About September 11th
Let see how Bush does not know how to lie as Clinton knows :
YouTube - Frank Caliendo Bush Impression