Wikileaks: Here to Save Democracy!

[crackahcrackah]

noises in this case, I think that crackahcrackah is talking about a different subject which is completely unkown for most people.

I think he is talking about the fact that a citizen can reject being governed and stop paying taxes. It is a most interesting subject.
People can decide to obey only the common law and none of the statues and silly rules imposed on us.

Unfortunately this is only for certain countries like US, Canada, maybe UK and Australia though not sure.

The system is completely corrupted and nothing makes sense any more. We have to start from scracth which can only happen with a needed revolution.

You have mentioned the list of countries not signing the human rights treaty. In the list is not a middle east country which violates human rights every single minute of every single day so what is the value of treaties?

I agree with you that this wikileaks guy should be free.

It is a certainty every where. I respect you as I can tell you are well read on issues of intrigue. I would ask you to have a look at the following and explore the rest of the site from this author who promoted truth and honesty above all. He is possibly best known for this link and his work in the abolitionist movement. He is a man to be respected, just as Nikola Tesla. Those who make seeking and disseminating the truth are worthy of respect.

No Treason, No. 6 | LysanderSpooner.org

Don't expect that little middle eastern country to sign anything as they believe they are a separate species from the rest of us, and that the rest of us are soulless animals. It's all written in the Talmud for any one to read with their own two eyes.

[Aaron]

freedom of speech

If Wikileaks and Assange has benevolant intentions, then we need to
start fighting for freedom of speech more than ever before.

If Wikileaks has an ulterior motive in a bad way, then we need to
start fighting for freedom of speech more than ever before.

In both cases, the issue is at hand and the people of the world need to
address it regardless of Wikileaks position. I would like to think that Wikileaks
isn't some huge psyops program but time will tell... or not.

Again, people who want freedom of speech need to defend the freedom
of speech standpoint for Wikileaks no matter what. As much as the skeptics
don't want to admit it - that is what needs to be done. By not standing
up for Wikileaks freedom of speech rights just because they don't believe
they are a good group will shoot themselves in the foot if there is further
censorship laws, etc... because of not enough people speaking out and
COMMANDING what our political representatives need to do.

So far, all the claims about Wikileaks being some huge cia machine is
based 100% on imagination with no facts to back it. The closest is the
claim in the article about Assange meeting with Israeli officials and
getting paid to not release some docs against Israel - which is suspicious.

But the Ana Ardin deal is starting to seriously look like a setup and even
if that isn't some us govt organized smear campaign, she is certainly
looking like she has been involved with an "x" cia operative.

I think it is just pure common sense that everyone needs to fight for
freedom of speech regardless of Wikileaks position.

[crackahcrackah]

If Wikileaks and Assange has benevolant intentions, then we need to
start fighting for freedom of speech more than ever before.

If Wikileaks has an ulterior motive in a bad way, then we need to
start fighting for freedom of speech more than ever before.

In both cases, the issue is at hand and the people of the world need to
address it regardless of Wikileaks position. I would like to think that Wikileaks
isn't some huge psyops program but time will tell... or not.

Again, people who want freedom of speech need to defend the freedom
of speech standpoint for Wikileaks no matter what. As much as the skeptics
don't want to admit it - that is what needs to be done. By not standing
up for Wikileaks freedom of speech rights just because they don't believe
they are a good group will shoot themselves in the foot if there is further
censorship laws, etc... because of not enough people speaking out and
COMMANDING what our political representatives need to do.

So far, all the claims about Wikileaks being some huge cia machine is
based 100% on imagination with no facts to back it. The closest is the
claim in the article about Assange meeting with Israeli officials and
getting paid to not release some docs against Israel - which is suspicious.

But the Ana Ardin deal is starting to seriously look like a setup and even
if that isn't some us govt organized smear campaign, she is certainly
looking like she has been involved with an "x" cia operative.

I think it is just pure common sense that everyone needs to fight for
freedom of speech regardless of Wikileaks position.

You've had a number of links provided for your erudition, which you have not taken the time to read prior to claiming that the stand point of wikileaks being an intel operation is based upon imagination. Suit yourself.

The article which bugler posted should provide more than enough evidence to raise questions. The NYTimes citations all the way back in 2007 should raise red flags. This is the same NYtimes that has gotten the common folk in the US into more than one war.

Some people only learn by touching the stove and getting burned. So be it.

[Aaron]

Wikileaks needs support regardless

You've had a number of links provided for your erudition, which you have not taken the time to read prior to claiming that the stand point of wikileaks being an intel operation is based upon imagination. Suit yourself.

The article which bugler posted should provide more than enough evidence to raise questions. The NYTimes citations all the way back in 2007 should raise red flags. This is the same NYtimes that has gotten the common folk in the US into more than one war.

Some people only learn by touching the stove and getting burned. So be it.

It is up to you if you choose to ignore the whole point of my post.

You obviously feel Wikileaks is fake - so, what are you going to do about
it?

Demand that our right to freedom of speech be left alone or just let
Wikileaks (if fake) be a cause of more censorship because you choose to
spend your time complaining about it being fake and not spending the
effort protesting censorship and getting others involved in protesting
censorship as well?

Even if you believe Wikileaks is fake, and if you are true to what you
are representing yourself as, don't you think that you are in a catch 22
of sorts and that it is still in your best interest to fight for freedom of
speech for Wikileaks?

If Wikileaks is banned or whatever and you don't stand up and fight for
Wikileaks, since that IS the frame of reference for which this is all being
played out under regardless of what the motive is behind it, WE ALL LOSE.

[cikljamas]

Crackahcrackah, i believe you are right, this video is indicative concerning
this matter too, you just have to sum 2 and 2 :
YouTube - Those Who Doubt the NWO Conspiracy...Listen Closely

[cikljamas]

If somebody need more explicit explanation of the NWO nature and methods,
here it is :
YouTube - 9/11 New World Order plan: Europe, America vs Russia, China
And the final result will be...imagine if you can !

[ashtweth]

Wiki leaks related to Oz
Australia: WikiLeaks cables reveal secret ties between Rudd coup plotters and US embassy

[cikljamas]

If you knew who is the highest authority in this NWO hierarchy than
you would not be surprised why these miracles happens last 30 years
in Medugorje :
YouTube - Medugorje miracle of sun - 2.8.2009

30 years !?!?!?!?!!!!!!

If it was fraud that it would be the greatest mass deception in the
history of the human kind, and if it is not deception than i must
ask you this : Dont you think we live in very serious times ???
Maybe too unbelievable to admit yourself that what you saw in this
video is something that you can not blame your eyes to cheat you,
or your reason, and if it happened as that guy recorded with his
camera than it means what ? Miracle for sure, but we have to think
what is the purpose and message of this and many others similar
optical miracles, not to mention thousands of miracle recoveries
of heavy illness !

I know this is religious stuff, but without that people will never
understand what is going on behind the curtain, and behind the
curtain is the place where the real game is taking place, not on
the surface of the real life as most of people believe !
Just like in quantum mechanic :
YouTube - Quantum Awakening - Have Scientists Found God?

[ashtweth]

Watch this video ash: YouTube - True News: Wikileaks - The Hammer Comes Down

Wikileaks is not just one person, Jullian is the 'fall' guy, he takes the heat while the rest of the guys get the job done.
Wikileaks collaborates with 5 major media outlets, to seek advice on what they can and can't get away with publishing. These 5 media outlets have complete and FULL access to all wikileaks leaks.
Its very hard to tell how many people run wikileaks because, most wikileaks people are anonymous - people say 120-500 people volunteer for wikileaks directly. About another 100 work indirectly through those 5 media outlets.

So Wikileaks is a very very big collaboration of Hackers, Journalists and Activists.
The thought that this is all just one Australian with a laptop, is very very laughable!

Take notes Ash! If you ever want to get a free energy design out there - this is how you do it - to avoid disappearing!

Red

Hi Red i read some where that he has the final say or some thing

Ash

[Aaron]

Ray McGovern Defends Julian Assange!

YouTube - Ray McGovern Defends Julian Assange! "You Should Be Following His Example" To American Media

Exactly!

[bugler]

IMHO the way to defend free speech is not related with defending or not ( I don't attack it) wikileaks.

They way to defend free speech and democracy is to remove the criminal elite.
Anything else will be a failure. We haev to go to the root of the problem. Wasting our energies in the branches will do nothing.
For example. Bush was not the root of the problem for US. Now he is gone and the US is even worse cause another puppet is president. Removing Obama won't change a thing cause another puppet will come.

If we are not mature enough to understand where the problem is we deserve this nightmare. If we can't in an intelligent way discuss who the problem are we deserve this nightmare.

Can we, as adults, discuss the root of the problem without getting emotional and resorting to sterotype answers (given by Hollywood movies)?

If we don't entirely destroy the jewish criminal network we are morons who are happy being slaves. Regarding the US while you accept in the government people with dual citizenship who openly proclaim that Israel is first you are fu#@ed up. If we allow the media to be owned by 6 jewish companies we will be manipulated every single minute of our lives. The same goes with Hollywood, banking system, financial system, huge corporations., etc
Don't you clearly see the ethnic origin of filthy millionaires? Can't you really see it? Don't you dare to see it?

Instead of the prre-programmed answer "jew hater", "Racist", etc research the topic and learn who are the masters of our world.

An easy way to start is to see this video about the federal reserve, which is the biggest scam ever and the root of economic problems: The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America Please pay attention to the ethnic origin of the 13 families owning the federal reserve and thus the world.
And for info regarding the taboo that can't be more than whispered see: Understanding Anti-Semitism: Why Do Some People Dislike Jews

Are we adults or little boys who laugh when they say tits or arse?

[crackahcrackah]

It is up to you if you choose to ignore the whole point of my post.

I'm not interested in rallying around a flag pole and begging some one else for freedom. Crying out for freedom is not the same thing as LIVING it. But I guess with out describing how I live it, one is going to assume that I'm some how living life like the rest of the slaves. Okay, how's this: I have not registered my automobiles, as I am not engaging in commerce and I know that I'm free to travel as I please. I have no driver's license, as I do not drive (commerce). I hold no insurance for "driving", as again I'm not a driver. I have no commercial plates. I'm not paying taxes (outside of basic fuel and food taxes, which as a cripple, is something I can cope with until the rest of the population is motivated to actually do something other than mass moaning). I'm willing to die to protect myself from others (evidently JA was not willing to die to protect himself from kidnapping and being caged like an animal?). Living free and living as a slave, who clamors for freedom but never attempts to just live it are two different things. You can not teach some one HOW to be free, it is something they must learn on their own, hence I will not join in clamoring for freedom of speech. I will just speak my mind and deal with the consequences as I see fit.

You obviously feel Wikileaks is fake - so, what are you going to do about
it?

If you scroll back through this thread you can see what I've done about it, at least on this forum.

Demand that our right to freedom of speech be left alone or just let
Wikileaks (if fake) be a cause of more censorship because you choose to
spend your time complaining about it being fake and not spending the
effort protesting censorship and getting others involved in protesting
censorship as well?

Again, I'm not going to ask any one for the right to speak my mind. I'll just do it. Maybe you didn't notice but protest is a relatively ineffective means of getting what one wants. Rather than engage in actions like "protest", I just do what I please. It's worked out really well for me so far. These things are the tempest in a tea pot. People are fully capable of engaging in the behaviors that they want to engage in, and if they self-censor for fear of totalitarians attacking them then that's their issue. But when it comes down to begging totalitarians to let you speak freely, then what is the next step when they refuse and start locking people up? Supporting the totalitarians enforcers has created quite the mess and maybe people should stop doing so, if they don't want have enforcers knocking at their door over the "law of the moment". Protest is absolutely ineffective. Ask 1.6 million dead Iraqi's who had the support of the world prior to the Jewish controlled media push to war in Iraq. The biggest protests the world has had happened then. What was the end result?

And the point is not simply that wikileaks is "fake", but that it is part of an ongoing intel operation, with a number of specific functions. But I guess it's too much to ask people to research what hidden functions may be involved. It's so much easier just to rally around the superficial issues that the NYTimes helped to prime the public for, all the way back in 2007.

Even if you believe Wikileaks is fake, and if you are true to what you
are representing yourself as, don't you think that you are in a catch 22
of sorts and that it is still in your best interest to fight for freedom of
speech for Wikileaks?

What do I need to fight for? I get to say what I want and I do. If the JBTs come knocking at my door I've got lead for them. That's an effective response. It's the whole reason politicians have mercenaries (policy enforcement officers and military personnel) working for them. How much control could politicians exert over the populace if they were to protest to the populace, regarding their demands (aka laws/statutes)?

If Wikileaks is banned or whatever and you don't stand up and fight for
Wikileaks, since that IS the frame of reference for which this is all being
played out under regardless of what the motive is behind it, WE ALL LOSE.

It won't effect me if wikileaks is "banned". It's not a source that I've relied upon. And in fact, all the way back to 2006, I was pushing heavily for an anonymous torrent like means of hosting websites and message forums. I don't have the time, or current know how to do the programming but I've laid out the concept on 911blogger and 2 other sites a few times in an attempt to get programmers who could carry out such a setup. But no one steps up to the plate. And at this point, it's more important that the alternate infrastructure be built up even further than it is.

The politicians can pass what ever laws they want. Free people will live as free people. Slaves will live as slaves. Out of those two sets of people, which one begs some one else for something?

I'd like to remind people that before, during, and potentially after wikileaks, people will continue to communicate, which means information will be spread. Totalitarian rule was not able to stop word of the famine in the Ukraine as a result of the communist rule. Word got out and so did images. What is more at issue is preventing that sort of control over the population again. And when people do not study history, they do not learn what power factions are responsible for such actions, and then they are at the mercy of those power factions, as those factions whip up the tempests in a teapot to keep the population clamoring over certain issues.

[crackahcrackah]

YouTube - Ray McGovern Defends Julian Assange! "You Should Be Following His Example" To American Media

Exactly!

Ray McGovern worked for the CIA which has dumped tons of cocaine and heroin into this country. Where are Ray's comments on this and why didn't he speak out while he was in office?
Mexico,CIA,Guantanamo Rendition Plane, Cocaine, Homeland 'Security' | Aotearoa Independent Media Centre

The CIA has been involved in toppling governments around the globe. People who are ex-spooks should be viewed with caution.

[crackahcrackah]

The same goes with Hollywood, banking system, financial system, huge corporations., etc
Don't you clearly see the ethnic origin of filthy millionaires? Can't you really see it? Don't you dare to see it?

Instead of the prre-programmed answer "jew hater", "Racist", etc research the topic and learn who are the masters of our world.

An easy way to start is to see this video about the federal reserve, which is the biggest scam ever and the root of economic problems: The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America Please pay attention to the ethnic origin of the 13 families owning the federal reserve and thus the world.
And for info regarding the taboo that can't be more than whispered see: Understanding Anti-Semitism: Why Do Some People Dislike Jews

But examining the power structure of those things is too logical. And looking at who owns what makes too much sense. I've got a full belly, tv, and porn at my finger tips. Why would I exert time and energy on any thing else? Here's to beer!

Are we adults or little boys who laugh when they say tits or arse?

Huh-huh huh, huh huh huh, hey Beavis he said tits and arse.

[RedRightHand]

Crackah,
I have said it once and I will say it again.
TAKE IT TOO ANOTHER THREAD!

We are discussing wikileaks here, the only way you will ever get your bad guys in court, is with evidence, evidence wikileaks provides.

If you have chosen to EXIT society, then stay gone, we the people here, are rising because we don't run and hide like you! Information is not oneway, government isn't the only one that can spy, we the people will bring down this NWO by the simple act of telling the truth.

Ash,
You are right, Julian did have final say on the ORDER the documents were to be released on the wikileaks WEBSITE. Julian was not allowed to remove, only postpone releases and also this is only for wikileaks website - all these leaks have already been given to 1000s of people in FULL, PRIVATELY.
There was much debate over the speed of the releases from inside wikileaks, some wanted it all online instantly, others want it spread over 10 years - I think Julian has taken the middle road here and basically tried to keep everyone happy. But also he is in jail, so someone else is running the show now.

Buglar,
You are right that wikileaks means nothing unless, we take this information and demand action and do something with it. I believe this is the main reason why we are getting it in dribbles, they don't want us to be overloaded - they want us to pick a fight with the corrupt elite, one at a time.

Ash,
Has Julia said anything yet, or is she still on holiday.
I am interested what she will do... you know the 'REAL' Julia... hahaha!
I hope she sticks it to the USA and says he is welcome home.

Aaron,
Ray breaks it down very nicely, what scares me is all the other stuff said by CNN staff. Is that what the LEFT is saying in America right now? That's Scary! If the left is scary then what is the bloody RIGHT saying? Thank god I don't have FOX NEWS.
NOTE: To all people living in USA, turn off your TV - there is no more real news there.
Thank god I live in Australia where we at least have ABC, SBS and some real journalists.
Looks like you have a case of OBAMAFRAUD there. I had great hopes in him too, but it is clear Obama = Wall Street.


NOW PLEASE PEOPLE! KEEP ON TRACK! WIKILEAKS AND FREE PRESS ONLY!
Try to remember this is an International discussion not a USA discussion, respect those other 6.5 billion of us out there.

Red