Wikileaks: Here to Save Democracy!

[crackahcrackah]

Crackah,
I have said it once and I will say it again.
TAKE IT TOO ANOTHER THREAD!

The last I checked this was a public forum. Am I mistaken?

We are discussing wikileaks here, the only way you will ever get your bad guys in court, is with evidence, evidence wikileaks provides.

The fact that you look to court as a solution is enough to indicate that we live in two different worlds. Good luck there.

If you have chosen to EXIT society, then stay gone, we the people here, are rising because we don't run and hide like you! Information is not oneway, government isn't the only one that can spy, we the people will bring down this NWO by the simple act of telling the truth.

Labels for categorizing things are not real, or living. While we're on the subject, what society do you mean: law, secret, etc.? I'm fiercely individualistic and those who have gone through public indoctrination centers seem to have a problem with that. You're definitely acting like a sales person. Good luck marketing your product.

NOW PLEASE PEOPLE! KEEP ON TRACK! WIKILEAKS AND FREE PRESS ONLY!
Try to remember this is an International discussion not a USA discussion, respect those other 6.5 billion of us out there.

Red

Tempest in a tea pot; tempest in a tea pot! Can we get some explosive sound effects and visuals to go with this thread? Like a Hollywood action movie?

[noises]

Party revolt grows over Julia Gillard's WikiLeak stance | News.com.au

meanwhile, some good news, the pro USA, anti freedom of speech australian governement are coping a hiding for this, from their own ranks.

Proud day for Australians
People 1 Govt 0

The US could shoot Julian Assange tomorrow and it wouldn't change the fact, the people of this country have stood up and told our government, we say no to internet censorship. No Australian federal government from this day forward can claim a mandate contrary without taking it to a referendum. What happens in the USA is their concern, and I wish my fellow libertarians and advocates of free speech over there the very best of luck.

[aljhoa]

Gatekeepers

”A new WikiLeaks” revolts against Assange
Uppdaterat 2010-12-09 22:17. Publicerat 2010-12-09 22:16

“Our long term goal is to build a strong, transparent platform to support whistleblowers--both in terms of technology and politics--while at the same time encouraging others to start similar projects,” says a colleague wishing to remain anonymous.

”A new WikiLeaks” revolts against Assange - DN.se
Al

[noises]

Nothing new to me there. "no, don't fight, lets all just get along, even the corrupt governments and the tame press, lets pretend wikileaks isn't worth speaking out for by starting a totally pliant and watered down version with an illusion of transparency, but that recognises the need to cover some things up, so we can all go back to business as usual, with some vague long term goal that is pretty much what wikileaks is already there to do today." Uh, yeah, thanks but no thanks buddy. If his statements pandered to puppet politics any more he'd need to borrow some mascara to get the eyes right. When you go to wikileaks, you get the afghan war diaries. when you go to openleaks, you get a coming soon sign.


Hey cracah, if you want to do something positive, why not compile some of the statutes of common law and some good reading on manufactured consent, and post THAT on wikileaks. Or not.

[Aaron]

post

What do I need to fight for? I get to say what I want and I do.

The politicians can pass what ever laws they want. Free people will live as free people. Slaves will live as slaves.

as those factions whip up the tempests in a teapot to keep the population clamoring over certain issues.

First of all, you're preaching to the choir and your state sovereignty
methods of using a vehicle (traveling is private while driving is commercial)
you're not revealing anything new - Spokane vs. Stagecoach, etc...

Nobody is asking you to ask permission for anything - but you want to
die for the rights of others? Then you should be fighting
for Wikileaks even if you do not use it as a source. I never relied on
Wikileaks. And I watch maybe 1 hour of television a MONTH - that is so
I can just skim though and see what kind of garbage they're talking about
then I go do my own research on the net and make up my own mind.
I haven't really watched tv for probably 15 years.

You're arguing with people here that are pretty much for the same things
you are but there are multiple flaws in your logic and claims. Those are
just details but overall, open your eyes and see we're all on the same
side of doing the right thing.

So you don't need to fight because you get to say what you want. Well,
sounds like you're only interested in yourself, a shame really. I personally
like to stand up for those around me to ensure they get to do the same.

Letting politicians pass what laws they want is complacency and is
the mentality that is responsible for why things have gotten out of
hand over the last hundred years.

And you're subject to that "clamoring" - look at you now in this thread.
You're spinning your wheels arguing that Wiki is propaganda, which I
think it is possible, but in any case, you gripe about it but don't want to
do anything about it. Again, all indications in your post is about you,
you, you.

[Aaron]

media

Ray McGovern worked for the CIA which has dumped tons of cocaine and heroin into this country. Where are Ray's comments on this and why didn't he speak out while he was in office?
Mexico,CIA,Guantanamo Rendition Plane, Cocaine, Homeland 'Security' | Aotearoa Independent Media Centre

The CIA has been involved in toppling governments around the globe. People who are ex-spooks should be viewed with caution.

Obviously with caution but what he is saying is common sense and I wouldn't
throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Aaron]

@Cracah

Hey cracah, if you want to do something positive, why not compile some of the statutes of common law and some good reading on manufactured consent, and post THAT on wikileaks. Or not.

This is a great suggestion I think. We're on the same page about a lot
of things apparently and you might as well put your research experience
to good use here.

[Aaron]

Pakistan refuses to ban Wikileaks

Party revolt grows over Julia Gillard's WikiLeak stance | News.com.au

meanwhile, some good news, the pro USA, anti freedom of speech australian governement are coping a hiding for this, from their own ranks.

Proud day for Australians
People 1 Govt 0

The US could shoot Julian Assange tomorrow and it wouldn't change the fact, the people of this country have stood up and told our government, we say no to internet censorship. No Australian federal government from this day forward can claim a mandate contrary without taking it to a referendum. What happens in the USA is their concern, and I wish my fellow libertarians and advocates of free speech over there the very best of luck.

Even the Pakistani government refused to ban Wikileaks even though it
was petitioned and the high court there said a ban was "unmaintainable"
and they should simply deal with the truth no matter how bad it is.
Clearly more in the spirit of freedom of speech than the American govt.
What a shame!

Then over the next few days, the Pakistani media released some fake
Wikileaks cables about India! What a circus.

[noises]

My freedom comes first for me too. That said, what good is it to be free in a world that is rife with injustice, and where freedom itself means nothing because it can be snatched away in an instant by the enforcers of unjust laws?

Mankind is progressing towards an ideal. We're not there yet. There are imperfections that have to be corrected before everyone can live assured of their rights, and be secure in the knowledge that for every one person who would exploit, subjugate, or harm them, one hundred will stand at his shoulder and say "no you won't, we won't let you, because what you do to him, you do to me." I'm not even sure if the ideal has a name, but it stems from an awareness of our interconnectedness, and when it gets a name, it will probably contain the word civic or civil, owing to it being an important part of people living together; the idea that we should stand up together, and lay aside differences, when we have to fight for a common cause.

And it's ok if not everyone gets it, just as long as a critical mass of people do.

[noises]

Then... the Pakistani media released some fake
Wikileaks cables about India! What a circus.

My favorite part is when the monkeys ride the little dogs and the government clowns throw buckets of fear confetti into the audience.

On a more serious note, Australia has lately been spun as quite the ally of the US. I think the story of what's happened here with the people standing up and the government being forced to listen to demands it change it's tune might actually help the cause in the US, you know, give people a bit of hope. We're not terrorists, we don't hate freedom, our views aren't historically radical or anti-American. And even though our government is suffering embarrassment from the same diplomatic leaks (which are pretty weak on the wikileaks scale of things, anyway,) all it took was a few voices in the media saying "suck it up, if you want to avoid being made look the fool, don't act foolishly, and don't ever dare try to smother evidence of your folly," and suddenly joe sixpack had the courage to say the same thing. Now the government has to deal with the fallout from that, even before Assange has his day in court. You could take heart from that if you wanted, and use the ensuing grassroots support for real freedom online to stick it to guys like Lieberman.

[bugler]

I just saw this video: YouTube - Sex, Lies, Iran, Israel and WikiLeaks

[Aaron]

help

My freedom comes first for me too. That said, what good is it to be free in a world that is rife with injustice, and where freedom itself means nothing because it can be snatched away in an instant by the enforcers of unjust laws?

And it's ok if not everyone gets it, just as long as a critical mass of people do.

We definitely have to be ok ourselves in order to help others. But the
attitude that "at least I can do what I want" is very, very empty.

[cikljamas]

I just saw this video: YouTube - Sex, Lies, Iran, Israel and WikiLeaks

What did i tell you ? Crackahcrackah is 100 % right, and Bugler thanks for
this link, great job, this video really hits the very center of the heart of the
problem that we discuss here, and if someone has contra arguments for
the facts that are exposed in this video i would really like to see these contra
"facts"...
I always wonder how is possible that lunatic as Hitler was or Stalin or
Mao, succeed to deceive such a numerous number of people and convince
them to follow him ?...Yes, interesting question, especially interesting for
our days, we have similar, or even worse situation now, and the biggest
issue is how to prevent those maniacs to prevail and carried out the
HOLOCAUST of ALL HOLOCAUSTS ?...If all media are in their hands, if all
military power is in their hands too, if all financial resources are in their
hands, if all political power is in their hands, and if The Duke Lucifer, chief
spirit of evil is their highest authority do you mean that we common sense
and good willing people who just want to leave in peace and love have any
chances to fight them writing words of love and peace across internet ???

It can help a little bit, but i tell you, just a little bit ! How come ? How come
Israel can hold whole region in his fist, how come illuminati hold whole world
except Russia and China, and maybe some small number of other countries
in their fist ? I can guess your reasonable, common sense answers to this
enigma, but i tell you, without spiritual dimension of this problem you will
never be able to understand the real root of this mystery and misery of human
kind which last from the earliest dawn of creation, and if you do not understand who stands behind the curtain of secrecy then you wont be able
to accept the most powerful mean against this EViL, and that is prayer !

The fact is that only God can save us from that beast, i studied this issue a lot
and i know very well what i am talking about, and that is the same reason that
make me able to understand why so many people will mock this words too,
but i just wanted to tell you again that there is the powerful mean against
this evil, and we need powerful mean if we want to survive, just talks are just
not good enough !

These guys have their religion and their Duke who they adore and the problem
is when we think that we can prevail them without our own religion and our
own King of kings...REmember how Moses leads the Jews out of slavery,
could he make it without God help ? No way ! So, who has ears, let him hear !

Rgds !

[crackahcrackah]

Hey cracah, if you want to do something positive, why not compile some of the statutes of common law and some good reading on manufactured consent, and post THAT on wikileaks. Or not.

Freedom is something that can not be taught. People have to be willing to behave as they want. The "laws" involved are deep and require more than just learning that you are not required to beg for a license to travel. It is encumbant upon each individual to learn these things and to know how to repeat what they've read such that they can defend themselves against corporate revenuers acting under the color of law, but in reality who engage in fraud.

For instance, how many people here are living in the region called "California"? How many of you buy licenses to go fishing? How many of you are actually selling what you catch for a profit or gain (commerce)? Well would you still buy a license if you're not engaging in commerce? Would you still buy a license if it's spelled out in the California Constitution that you don't need one for non-commerce fishing?

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1
California State Constitution
Article I Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water containing fish that have been planted therein by the State; provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season when and the conditions under which the different species of fish
may be taken.

The bottom line is, information is ALL over the internet for the taking. Attempting to place it all in one place allows for easier monitoring of who is reading what and when, and it allows for easier manipulation of the information. Rather than it being MY RESPONSIBILITY, it is the responsibility of each individual to EDUCATE themselves as they see fit. If they want to drink beer, watch sitcoms/porn, and engage in trivialities, then that is their "right" to freely do so; but when they're so dumbed down that they get taken advantage of they have no one else to blame. Individuals such as myself can only raise issues and let them decide what they are going to do to further inform themselves. Just mentioning manufactured consent, and edward bernays should be enough for an elementary age child to use a search engine to find out more. Full grown adults should not need to have their hands held on such an issue.

Mean while, we can "pretend" as if certain individuals were not blatantly creating issues and distortions in the things that I have said, otherwise they may lose persuasive attitudinal influence over others...

[crackahcrackah]

I've just been informed in pm that some of my posts were removed. You all can have fun with the israeli disinfo agents who are manipulating the flow of conversation. I'm done on this site.


Figure out tesla's work on your own as I will not sit around and let myself be censored on topics that I have spent just as much time researching as Tesla's patents which I have willingly pointed others to, right down to specific quotes out of the patents.

"And you will know them by the fruits of their labor."

Good bye.