Wikileaks: Here to Save Democracy!

[HairBear]

Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange

Michael Moore: Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange

I love it! This leaks stuff is going viral and hopefully for the better of mankind. Let's do the right things this time and take care of these problems while we have the chance. And if you are someone in a position to expose crimes against us all, we beg you to do the right thing too.


Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Document Shows It Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees | Fast Company

[bugler]

Assange will be freed in 48 hours or so they say on the news.

So now that this issued is almost solved I would like to know what wikileaks have really exposed. For what I have read it has exposed nothing of real value besides that the US is a terrorist state in Afghanistan and Irak (it is not really the US but the dual citizens american-israeli in the goverment).

I don't understand the excitment of people with wikileaks as defending democracy or similar.

Read this article on who is behind wikileaks. It is well researched Who is Behind Wikileaks?

Again. I don't think wikileaks should be closed, ban, etc. I just think it is manufactured dissent so people think there is a chance to improve. Same as with Ron Paul who says that there is nothing wrong about the 911 official conspiracy theory.
If it is in the news it ain't news.

[noises]

I would like to know what wikileaks have really exposed. For what I have read it has exposed nothing of real value besides that the US is a terrorist state in Afghanistan and Irak (it is not really the US but the dual citizens american-israeli in the goverment).

I don't understand the excitment of people with wikileaks as defending democracy or similar.

Ok, first part, what have wikileaks exposed.

High level corruption.
Shell's grip on Nigeria revealed: WikiLeaks

Leaks with hard evidence of war crimes.
US Complicity In Sri Lankan War Crimes: WikiLeaks « Rupee News
WikiLeaks: Evidence of War Crimes in Afghan Docs - CBS News
WikiLeaks Documents Confirm U.S. War Crimes in Afghanistan


Exposed the material details of several proposed government censorship programs, details kept secret from the people they were to be imposed on.
WikiLeaks Exposes Australian Web Blacklist | Threat Level | Wired.com
Wikileaks: Italian secret internet censorship list, 287 site subset, 21 Jun 2009 | CyberLaw Blog
1,203 new websites censored by Thailand - Wikileaks

Brought documents to light which may end up with the Chairman of the Bank of England being forced to resign.
Bank of England chief under fire over WikiLeaks

Not to mention, their exposure of corruption which changed the results of the elections in Kenya to oust a corrupt government, and implicate the police force in state sanctioned mass murders.


Now for the second part. People defending wikileaks are doing so for one reason .They don't want the free flow of information to be shut down just because many governments today would rather act in secret, and never have to answer for their crimes.

wikileaks is the high-profile rally point around which people from diverse backgrounds are gathering. Hackers, lawyers, supreme court judges and even government ministers (honest ones, or ones who want to be seen to be honest perhaps,) are essentially saying the same thing. Information needs to be free, and people who come forward with evidence of high level corruption need protection under international law from persecution.

If you can't understand that wikileaks represents a direct assault on the culture of secrecy that allows the crimes it has recently outed to prevail, then I put it to you that you are one of two things. Deliberately obtuse, or just not capable of seeing a bigger picture than the one you want to see.

If you can look at the evidence of the massive crimes it's brought to the public's attention and see a good result for people who reject corporatism and serfdom, if you can't see it's a direct and incredibly effective first salvo against the new world order, if you'd rather argue about anything else in an effort to change the topic , or down play the seriousness of the evidence wikileaks is making public, I put it to you you're disinforming FOR the new world order by trying to get people to hate faceless enemies and fear nebulous concepts instead of going after the exposed criminals based on the evidence the world now has in it's hands, thanks to wikileaks.

"wikileaks tells us nothing we didn't already know?" really? Does that mean you had hard evidence of these crimes but you were withholding it?

[bugler]

If you can't understand that wikileaks represents a direct assault on the culture of secrecy that allows the crimes it has recently outed to prevail, then I put it to you that you are one of two things. Deliberately obtuse, or just not capable of seeing a bigger picture than the one you want to see.

I maybe obtuse but I try not to be but definitely my interest is the biggest picture.

Part of the bigger picture not commented in wikileaks is:
1. The US government committing these terrible crimes exposed by wikileaks IS NOT REALLY THE US GOVERNMENT. The US is a proxy of Israel.
An acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly
session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and
his foreign Minister Shimon Peres during which Sharon reportedly
yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we
control America." Sharon to Peres: "Don't worry about American pressure; we control America"
This is the biggest biggest issue not mention at all in wikileaks or the media.

2. Israel did 911, 7/7, Madrid, Bali, etc. I can't put more emphasis to the importance of this information. "Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at the U.S. Army War College, on audio. The video details evidence on why it is 100% certain that Israel did 9/11 and the official story is a pack of lies." 9/11 Missing Links

3. The monetary system is a scam. The fed is a private company with private interests and goes against what the US constitution says. The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America
Henry Ford "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning".

4. The farmaceutical and medical system is a scam and a genocide. Cancer has many cures and very cheap. G. Edward Griffin - A World Without Cancer - The Story Of Vitamin B17 Dr. Simoncini: Cancer Is Caused By Fungus Video
The whole aids thing is a scam: HIV=AIDS: Fact Or Fraud
etc. etc. etc.

5. The are political prisioners in Europe, Canda and Australia. The whole planet knows that Assange is on jail (hopefully free in a few hours) but nobody gives a **** that other people are in jail for up to 7 years for the crime of not believeing certain official version of a historical event. Yes. There are 7 "democratic" countries that put you in jail if you don't have faith in the official version of historical event. Amazing right?
This is even more important cause that historical fact is a bunch of lies and dictates policies and stop criticism of genocides.

6. Over 96% of the media is owned by 6 jewish companies. The media sets out ideas, likes, dislikes, hates, etc. The media says what is right or wrong.
All our reality is a fabrication by a small bunch of people to have us all in a state of desinformation and counfusion. Even Al Jazeera is in jewish hands and its programs are pure propaganda.

7. (You might like this one.) Tesla and many others afterwards invented free energy. We are polluting the planet for the only reason of the profit of a few and the slavement of humanity. We could all have free energy, heat, fuelless cars, ...

Expose just these 5 points to the world and there will be public outcry and we will start going at last in the right direction.

Knowing theh wikileaks info won't change, IMHO, much but these 5 facts will change the world if people knew.

[noises]

Part of the bigger picture not commented in wikileaks is:
1. The US government committing these terrible crimes exposed by wikileaks IS NOT REALLY THE US GOVERNMENT. The US is a proxy of Israel.
An acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly
session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and
his foreign Minister Shimon Peres during which Sharon reportedly
yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we
control America." Sharon to Peres: "Don't worry about American pressure; we control America"
This is the biggest biggest issue not mention at all in wikileaks or the media.

5 minutes google search will show anyone who looks this quote has only ever been attributed to a single source, the Islamic Association for Palestine. Not even the news agency where report was said to have come from by the IAP have any record of such a comment. This is where you're going to run into problems with news organistations, who demand the information be verified, not simply useful to gaining support for your arguments. If there was a recording, they'd use that as evidence and run the story. Otherwise you're engaging in what's known as libel, the publishing of slanderous accusations without any evidence. Nobody has a recording of that statement. Nobody. There may well be evidence of other things, but not of that statement ever actually having been made, when it was first published 9 years ago in 2001. Oh yes, it's a decade old, and you're dragging it out now, to make this an argument about the jews, and how anyone who defends wikileaks is defending a zionist plot. Ok...

Dude, evidence. Ok? We need proof. Not links to angry bloggers agreeing with each other, hard proof. Liked leaked diplomatic cables. Or videos from helicopter gun sites. That's what the world needs before it can prosecute, not that anyone in israel would ever allow themselves to be taken before an international court, being the tyrants they are and given their law unto themselves attitude. Surprised? You'll get no argument from me about the way Israel behaves, I just have the good sense to realise not everything in the world is about them, and the good manners to realise in this thread it's an off topic axe grind to even bring it up.

I get it, you really, really hate Israel. Good for you. Start another thread if you haven't already, htis one is about wikileaks. Not sort of vague connection and absence of evidence of your favorite conspiracies on wikileaks, the very real and very ugly implications of this very real fight against a culture of keeping secrets from the people, and distracting them with arguments that are way, way way off topic, instead of letting them focus on the particulars of the matter at hand. Appealing to any popular or contentious old prejudices is such a great way to ring the alarm bells too. I've noticed hte mainstream media reports on wikileaks all have the same distracting, diminishing tone, like they want people to talk about anything except the material in the leaks. Yes, it's that obvious. We're not idiots.

One last point, about wikileaks... I don;'t know if you've noticed or not, but all that stuff you'r talking about has

ALREADY BEEN EXPOSED!!!

I saw the money masters video three years ago, I'm still showing it to people today, for example. That info is already in the public domain, It's been leaked. Now it needs to be circulated, and someone has to find a way to convince the dumb schmucks who don't care about it to start caring.

Wikileaks on the other hand is for exposing the secret stuff we don't already know about, for providing the world with the evidence we need to go after the crimes that can be proven. People have been saying the Jews are evil manipulators and exploiters and pointing to the talmud as evidence for CENTURIES!!!! Give us a leak, give us a scoop, dig up some real proof, THEN POST IT ON WIKILEAKS. You could start by trying to find a copy of that interview you quoted and want me to believe is real when it comes from a single, unverified source with a completely obvious political bias... Good luck.

My mind is wide open, My mind is so open I can completely agree with the Palestinian people and still not allow my own bias to color my view of pro-palestinian information I'm given. I'll still challenge any information I'm given and seek my own evidence to substantiate or coroborate it, every time. I actually agree most people need to know about most of the things you're talking about, I'm just curious why you're so determined to steer this topic in one particular direction at the expense of the real issues here, which are about civil liberties and freedom of information requiring protection from present day attacks coming from dark forces within the US government, forces that have been there since bush senior was in office, and who nobody ever voted for.

[Aaron]

epa responsible for colony collapse disorder

Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Document Shows It Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees | Fast Company

So that's what it is! I just posted that on a Fire Lisa Brown page:
We the People want Lisa P. Jackson Fired from the EPA. Sign here. | Facebook
If you're on Facebook, go spread that page please!!!

[noises]

High five! YES!!!! Use those leaks to go after officials who's actions are against the public interest. Make them personally accountable, take the evidence into the public domain, and punish them!

This is exactly what wikileaks is about. Holding people in positions of power responsible for actions. You should go after the company who manufactured the pesticide too. I especially love that it's a facebook based campaign to raise awareness. Operation Leakspin in action! I love it!

HE LOVES IT!!!

[Farmhand]

So that's what it is! I just posted that on a Fire Lisa Brown page:
We the People want Lisa P. Jackson Fired from the EPA. Sign here. | Facebook
If you're on Facebook, go spread that page please!!!

Yes I read about the corn seed pre-treatmet chemical pesticide causing colony collapse about two years ago. I think I think I read it in a french document I found while researching organic control methods for corn borer's in my sweet corn. I was reading up on why I should stay organic for my own food production. Suffice to say I didn't need much convincing.

If you time it correctly with a small crop it is fairly easy to catch the eggs before they hatch and remove them. It's a bit of work though. They can also be controlled effectively enough with much less toxic pesticides if the timing is right and the eggs or catapillars are caught outside the stems.


I agree even though i'm not an American I still think Lisa P. Jackson should be fired. It's almost treason.

After reading the document I read two years ago I think she should be jailed, but thats just my opinion. People in positions for the public good should be held responsible for thier decisions either that or leave it for somebody who is prepared to take responsibility.

The actual info about that poison causing Colony Collapse Disorder is fairly old, which is even more disturbing.

Cheers

[noises]

Now the next step, when you have enough grassroots support for a move like this page is making, is buildng your case on more evidence, and leaking the story to your mainstream media. If they won't run with it a story of US people power in action, they're not on the side of the US people, and that's a story you take to another media outlet.

You just have to be a bit cagey, a bit clever, and you can play the media off against itself even when it won't help you the first time. All it takes is a group of people with the same aim but different skills, to each collaborate and give a little. The power of that is incredible.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead

Good luck, America

[Farmhand]

I can see the reason something like wikileaks is needed is because even when some people put two and two together and discover a real bad problem like the cause of CCD. No matter how much they jump up and down it isn't covered in the mainstream media,
so the majority of people don't hear about it to start with,
then a portion of those that do don't care,
another portion don't believe it ( they say if that were true they wouldn't allow it ),
another portion believe it and care but don't believe they can do anything about it,
and the one's who do kick up a fuss find out at different time's so there are only a small amount at any one time activated to try to do something.

Why didn't wikileaks expose it when it was first made public that that particular pesticide was a very probable cause for CCD.

Maybe they were not aware of it, though i find that hard to believe.

Another problem is if wikileaks release too much info it becomes information overload, it's almost there now. That is another thing the PTB have going for them, the sheer volume of darstardly deeds being done could never be reported by one agency and absorbed by the people then acted on in a timely manner.

Regards

[Aaron]

epa crooks

The actual info about that poison causing Colony Collapse Disorder is fairly old, which is even more disturbing.

I've read and heard many ideas about what it is including cell phone towers
and even the pesticides.

But to have a doc from the EPA leaked out is infinitely more valuable in order
to pursue the prosecution of the criminals in the EPA.

[noises]

I'm not above letting the evidence speak for itself.

Climate scientists accused of 'manipulating global warming data' - Telegraph
University scientists in climategate row hid data - Telegraph

There you go, leaked documents, from wikileaks, that give proof of pro-climate change scientists in the UK engaging in deceptions to push their side of the story. That's me, being objective. Bare in mind I'm a fully fledged greeny, and this information hurts my side of the argument by seriously undermining it's credibility and integrity. Yes, it's old news, a year old, but who leaked it? Well who else leaks incriminating documents hacked out of illicit sources? Wikileaks.

Notice how I'm not attacking wikileaks for not having information to back me up. I still support what they do in principal, and as far as being proved wrong about something goes, The only thing I like better than being right is being shown I was wrong.

[Farmhand]

But to have a doc from the EPA leaked out is infinitely more valuable in order
to pursue the prosecution of the criminals in the EPA.

Oh yes I agree Aaron, it is very damning evidence. I hope they are treated accordingly and very importantly I hope the CCD thing is sorted out soon.

The facebook thing is a good idea.

Are the bee's still dying ? I'll have to update myself on that.

It's the destructive actions of and the general lack of accounability of the destructors that grate's on me. A graffiti artist can be jailed for repeatedly painting a wall and yet a group of people can destroy so much of other people stuff and not be held accountable.

It's up to the people to police the above the law folks as the "law" and it's enforcers answer to them.

It's like pulling a thorn, it hurts, but it has to be done or the infection will spread. Better to do it now than later. Problem is of course the thorns are many and deep already.

I believe your founding fathers made provisions for this in your constitution.

The thing is if they are honest and something is not known by the EPA then when they find out they should change the regulations, the fact that they don't change the regulations tells me that they probably don't make the decisions. The problem is bigger than sacking the people who work at the EPA, in my opinion, but prosecuting them should reveal any outside influence.



Cheers

[ashtweth]

Michael Moore: Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange

I love it! This leaks stuff is going viral and hopefully for the better of mankind. Let's do the right things this time and take care of these problems while we have the chance. And if you are someone in a position to expose crimes against us all, we beg you to do the right thing too.


Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Document Shows It Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees | Fast Company

Yeppers, the foundations are there now to get HUNDREDS ON BOARD TO PROTECT THE WIKI CONCEPT,

WIKI =COMMUNITY,NEEDS MORE CONTRIBUTING.

they can deal with some of us but not ALL,that's why we are a community organizational concept, you need the numbers,that's what we set out to do. The more on board ,like at a protest,the more the line gets pushed back,like the blackloc concept

Ash

[Aaron]

ccd caused by EPA crimes

Oh yes I agree Aaron, it is very damning evidence. I hope they are treated accordingly and very importantly I hope the CCD thing is sorted out soon.

The facebook thing is a good idea.

I haven't heard much recently about the bees dying.

After I saw that leak article, I spent 30 minutes and copy and pasted it
all into an email and I emailed it to about 50 email addresses that I took from
Bee Keeper Associations around the country. Mostly in the northwest and
east coast. That is all I had time to do.