Generator with Lenz-less toroidal stator

[nilrehob]

Has anyone tried making a generator with a toroidal stator?
Generators and transformers with ... - Google Patent Search
(Beware, fig 1 in patent doc is prior art and not part of the invention)

I guess it separates the stator flux from the rotor flux and thus
minimize the Lenz-effect, reminds me of Thanes bi-toroid-transformer
with its separate flux-paths for primary and secondary.

/Hob

[Jetijs]

Hi Hob.
Looks good and straight forward, should be also rather easy to build
Thanks for posting that

[Jbignes5]

Ummm yes Tesla did...

Has anyone tried making a generator with a toroidal stator?
Generators and transformers with ... - Google Patent Search
(Beware, fig 1 in patent doc is prior art and not part of the invention)

I guess it separates the stator flux from the rotor flux and thus
minimize the Lenz-effect, reminds me of Thanes bi-toroid-transformer
with its separate flux-paths for primary and secondary.

/Hob

Man they will give patents to a billion people for the same concept. How can they do that when Tesla patent the idea already.

Link to patent from Tesla.

BEST AVAILABLE COP - Google Patent Search

[nilrehob]

Man they will give patents to a billion people for the same concept. How can they do that when Tesla patent the idea already.

Link to patent from Tesla.

BEST AVAILABLE COP - Google Patent Search

I should have recognized that, silly me...
and i was even revisiting that particular patent of Tesla just the other day
You are absolutely right!



/Hob

[nilrehob]

...well, if even Tesla came up with this solution it must be really worth while testing,
and two patents describing the same thing must make it easier to replicate, right?



/Hob

[Jbignes5]

Yes...

...well, if even Tesla came up with this solution it must be really worth while testing,
and two patents describing the same thing must make it easier to replicate, right?



/Hob

Absolutely we should test this. I have been pounding the podium trying to get people to see that Tesla was more then the Tesla coil. His ideas are very relevant because he was an empirical experimenter/physicist/Mechanic. He learned by doing. I for one am gonna be doing my own experiments with this design including making his motor generator that self sustains and even runs optional accessories as well while maintaining the batteries or a swap bank of batteries. I have also just found out about the Edison iron nickel Battery which will be the battery banks that this motor/generator will run from.

We have had the answers all along but the powers to be pushed them into obscurity as usual. It's time to take back our innovations and improve on them. We have a lot of time to make up for not taking up the challenges of our brightest minds.

At the moment I am trying to design a working prototype of the motor generator of Tesla's. I am at the point that each part of the motor/generator should be in modules all hooked to the same shaft. These modules are exciter for the ac generator field / ac generator(synchronous capable when rotor coils are shorted) / Prime mover ( dual mode synchronous(run)/asynchronous(start)).

I know the exciter is a magneto that gets shuttled into the field coils of the ac generator part. Upon starting the generator is turned into a motor to bring it up to speed. Once it is up to speed the coils are un-shorted on the rotor of the generator and the motor or prime mover will be engaged by shorting the rotor coils of the motor. This puts it into self sustaining mode with excess for whatever you need to use. The rest is pulsed into the Edison Nickel Iron battery bank that is not being used to energize the motor and subsystems. Of course all this needs an excellent controller that can handle all of the operations of the motor/generator system, including the battery swapping functions.

I also believe that we should look into using vacuum tubes to control the generator and the electric production ans switching since they could handle much higher currents then our semiconductors. It should be also cheaper to use tubes instead of semiconductors of high amp control.

[Jbignes5]

here is a rough sketch of what I am thinking..

For you to look at:



In this the patent has all the information about the connections for each module. The magneto on the left is the exciter in the patent. The generator is self explainable except in this case I have ran parallel rings to increase the capability of the generator. It should allow for us to add more rings or even take some away to change the output of the generator. The right hand side is a standard synchronous motor. I don't think it should be unshorted since that motor will only engage when the generator's rotor windings are un shorted after startup. I have not figured out that part yet.

The output will be tapped in between the generator rotor coils and the motor or prime mover field coils. The motor rotor coils should always be shorted upon themselves and creates a variable magnetic event that changes as the field coils energize up or down. I assume they should be of a heavy gauge maybe even the design of the Thane guy where there is a high voltage coil buried in the field coils or even the rotor coils of the motor or prime mover.

Tesla did a lot of work on the electric motors he created. He has several updates to the motors to facilitate better efficiency and power. I am still in the process of figuring out what is what. There are a lot of patents by Tesla on motors so it will take some time before I understand it all.

[nilrehob]

Your picture makes me think a Bedini Window-motor would be perfect to add generator toroids to.
Care has to be taken on how to wind the coils though.

/Hob

[elias]

This might not be a drag-less generator, but it might be worth a try. I tried it before, by using a toroidal transformer, and a spinning magnet with an electric motor. By drawing current from the transformer, I noticed significant drag on the rotating magnet. So I think we can safely say that Lenz doesn't go away with this config. But what I can't say yet, is that if the Lenz effect is being reduced by using this method.

[Jbignes5]

I doubt this would be lenzless...But...

This might not be a drag-less generator, but it might be worth a try. I tried it before, by using a toroidal transformer, and a spinning magnet with an electric motor. By drawing current from the transformer, I noticed significant drag on the rotating magnet. So I think we can safely say that Lenz doesn't go away with this config. But what I can't say yet, is that if the Lenz effect is being reduced by using this method.

Well with the information about burying the high voltage coil inside the high current coil of the motor it will negate lenz and speed up the motor while it is generating. Here is the reference video for that procedure:

YouTube - ThaneCHeins's Channel

Try to watch them all about the regenerative acceleration.

[Jetijs]

This might not be a drag-less generator, but it might be worth a try. I tried it before, by using a toroidal transformer, and a spinning magnet with an electric motor. By drawing current from the transformer, I noticed significant drag on the rotating magnet. So I think we can safely say that Lenz doesn't go away with this config. But what I can't say yet, is that if the Lenz effect is being reduced by using this method.

For this to work your would need a toroid core that is made out of many washer shaped plates, but ordinary transformers are usually made by coiling a long strip of metal in a circle. You need to spin the magnetic field parallel to the plates and not perpendicular. Also ordinary transformer windings wont work, if you have 4 magnets, you can use 2 coils 180 degrees apart of each other, if you have 1 magnet, then only one coil can be used. and it should not be longer than 180 degree of an arc. If you used the transformer windings as they were originally on the transformer, I doubt something good would come out of it. Can you elaborate more on your setup?>

[Peter Lindemann]

Video from 9 Years Ago

YouTube - bjusticeforever's Channel

This link goes to a new toroid generator design without drag or lenz effect. A freind and I are going to expand on the idea by putting 10 - 12 toroid coils in a circle and use the same flat stator with magnets around the outside edge.

Peter Lindemann has a new UTube vid describing how black sand is the best core material. Just mix it with expoxy and cast any size core. Should work good for bedini coil cores too. We live in an area where black sand will be easy to get.

YouTube - Dr. Peter Lindemann Speaks on Magnetite Core Material

Alan

Alan,

That clip is from my presentation to the KeelyNet Conference in 2001. I was referring to the work of Bill Muller. As it turns out, magnetic cores made from magnetite have some interesting properties, but they also have many drawbacks. First and foremost, if you make any, you must mix the epoxy with as much magnetite as you can get in it, and then let the epoxy set up with the material subjected to an extremely intense magnetic field, to pre-align all of the particles. If you don't do this, they are practically worthless. Even after this, they saturate at about 3000 Gauss. The one good quality they have is low eddy current losses and high switching speeds, so they are a reasonable, home-made substitute for a ferrite core.

Beyond this, I doubt if they have much use in power generation.

Also, Elias is correct. These toroidal structures work equally well as both motors and generators and so will NOT produce a "drag-less" generator.

Peter

[wojwrobel]

hello

with all respect to Mr Lindemann I dont think we need any other "new" material than soft iron !!

All we need is to make our core that will capture lenz force so it dont affect our passing magnet !!!

closed loop for trapping magnetic field , something like Thane Heins has in hes patents or this patent US2009200892

espacenet — Bibliographic data

cheers from poland
wojsciech

[elias]

For this to work your would need a toroid core that is made out of many washer shaped plates, but ordinary transformers are usually made by coiling a long strip of metal in a circle. You need to spin the magnetic field parallel to the plates and not perpendicular. Also ordinary transformer windings wont work, if you have 4 magnets, you can use 2 coils 180 degrees apart of each other, if you have 1 magnet, then only one coil can be used. and it should not be longer than 180 degree of an arc. If you used the transformer windings as they were originally on the transformer, I doubt something good would come out of it. Can you elaborate more on your setup?>

Well, I used a hand made toroidal coil wound on a ferrite toroidal core. I tried to spin the magnet in every possible location I could find, but when I lit a lamp with the coil the RPM dropped and the current draw of the motor went up, so I abandoned the experiment.

So the only way I have found to eliminate the Lenz is to charge the capacitor by one leg of the coil, as Dr Stiffler has presented. Also I wonder if we can generate a ramp function by using the coil, and the particular conf of the rotor, and charge the capacitor without drawing much current from the coil, and dumping the capacitor every second or so.

[Jetijs]

Hi Elias,
As far as I know, ferrite wont work, you need a material with high ability to absorb magnetic flux, such as mumetal for example. The core shouldn't saturate fully at any point or Mr Lenz will come to a visit.
Thanks for the info!
Jetijs