How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[sixth sense]

start of commercialization

somebody found a gold mine in the trashes


Pinoy inventor converts used plastics to fuel | ABS-CBN News

[sixth sense]

Yes, the water may not work so well with condensers you want to maintain above 100C as it wants to boil and turn to steam. It would be fine for temps below boiling point though.

this is not exactly true.

a condenser unit operates in a mass and energy balance

example.
Let m=mass flow rate of hot gas @400 C
u= energy/unit mass of the gass @ 400C at specific pressure (maybe above ambient)
M=mass of water to go into the condenser
U=energy/unit mass of water

so from energy balance
m*(u1)+M*(U1)=m*(u2)+M*(U2)
where 1 indicates inlet and 2 outlet conditions

so since these is a non-contact condenser, there is no change in mass flow from inlet to outlet(point1 to point2)

from charts (if the gas is known) , you can obtain the u1 and u2 at the desired temperature

then you can design the condenser water output temp to any desired value above your input, say 30C above input, in the same manner you can get U values from table,

then re-arranging the energy balance equation

M(U1-U2)=m(u2-u1)

then your mass flow rate of water will be something like

M=m(u2-u1)/(U1-U2)

from the above , it is shown that the condenser can user water to maintain temperatures well above the boiling temperature of water, it is a question of how much water will you use to achieve it

[Uncorruptable]

from the above , it is shown that the condenser can user water to maintain temperatures well above the boiling temperature of water, it is a question of how much water will you use to achieve it

Thanks for posting this up, dont follow the equasions but i gather you are saying that a cold enough fluid moving at a brisk rate can control the temp far in excess of 100'c, i am leaning back towards using a berr cooler i have idle here, it has a double inlet & outlet meaning the water can pass through the cooling coils twice before it goes back into the condensors & the temp of the water that cools the condensor water as it passes through submerged coils can be thermostatically controlled to almost freezing.

What flow rate would you imagine the water would need to be circultaing and entering the condensor at say 2'c to be able to cool the vapour at 200.c?

Sorry for the questions, unfortunatley i never excelled in my education having left school with poor results & not progressing on to third level, saying that, mind you i have a keen mind & ability to understand dynamics & tolerances if i am guided through a little.

Also for the record, i work as a health & safety officer so i am fully trained in risk assessing equipment for anny potential hazards, any work i will have undertaken will be with prior consultation with professionals & any work i cannot undertake will be done by competent enginneers.

What would you guys reckon to an old beer keg as a reactor? To thin?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

What would you guys reckon to an old beer keg as a reactor? To thin?

Looks fine to me, but a bit small for cracking plastics. It would be quite useful for distilling WMO, but then I hear tell distilling WMO is now off-topic for some here.

By the way, if you have lots of polystyrene, then instead of packing your 55-gallon retort with fluffy polystyrene peanuts, you could melt the polystyrene in gasoline first, then put the solution into the retort. You will find you can get a lot more polystyrene into your retort if you dissolve it into gasoline first, and if your condensers are working well, then you will reclaim the gasoline to use to reclaim more polystyrene.

By the way, the teflon seal in the pressure cooker needed a clamp to increase the seal pressures. So, I made one. Works great.

I also installed a screen inside the lid to break any bubble formations as they moved out of the boiler

I found some machinist chips to pack the boiler as boiling chips/reflux packing

[Uncorruptable]

Looks fine to me, but a bit small for cracking plastics. It would be quite useful for distilling WMO, but then I hear tell distilling WMO is now off-topic for some here.

By the way, if you have lots of polystyrene, then instead of packing your 55-gallon retort with fluffy polystyrene peanuts, you could melt the polystyrene in gasoline first, then put the solution into the retort. You will find you can get a lot more polystyrene into your retort if you dissolve it into gasoline first, and if your condensers are working well, then you will reclaim the gasoline to use to reclaim more polystyrene.

By the way, the teflon seal in the pressure cooker needed a clamp to increase the seal pressures. So, I made one. Works great.

I cant see the phototbucket pics from here.

At the risk of getting a hand slapping i'll get this one in quick,

If i were to distill WMO in this unit, i imagine it is easier in a batch converter to have a non oxgen environment, the oxgen should be displaced from the head before we reach anywhere near 400'c, yes?

Also, WMO would reach a boiling point faster i am guessing yes?

Would i also be right in thinking it should distill quicker than plastics?

[Asad Farooqui]

Flange seals

While I have not done pyrolysis of plastics, I am apparently the only one on this thread who has actually worked for a petroleum refinery, designed, built and operated cracking units and distillation towers; and I have posted a lengthy cautionary note that should be at the head of this thread. And, certainly no one else on this thread represents anyone with "a lot of experience in this area."

I have already recommended a number of seal designs that are well established systems, such as the ConFlat Flange copper seal system. I have used those flanges for years in a number of applications from 1.8 Kelvin to 922K (1200F) without a failure. Graphite packing and seals seem like an excellent solution to this problem, over some bogus one of a kind flange seal system made by someone with no experience in either flange design or pyrolysis of plastics.

Hello BB ;
Iam sorry to say that your knowledge about pyrolysing plastics is almost ZERO & you talk a lot more .
You are not the only refinery guy on this forum . Let me tell you that there are many guys on the forum I know have a lot of refinery experience .
One fellow has a 40-years experience in designing & running Big OIL-refineries.
Another fellow on this forum have patented pyrolysis unit selling alongwith homemade Zeolite catalyst.
Another forum member I know has developed a continuous reactor which pyrolyse plastics in just 30-seconds upto a capacity of 20-tons per day.

One good thing about all these guys I know is that they are very humble & never say that they know everything .

I would agree with Jetijs that metal V-groove is the Only Best thing for flange seals .
Iam running plastic pyrolysis unit of 100-gallon batch size for a year or so .
I have tried all sorts of synthetic seals & because of them many times my reactor caught fire. The only thing which never failed me is the Jetijs metal V-groove .


Many people around the world surf through this forum & most of them have no experience of plastic pyrolysis like you . But when they read wild ideas/suggestion on this forum they think it's 100% tried & tested & they should work on it blindly .

Jetijs & other senior members have provided almost all the info required for making small scale pyro unit & catalyst in the initial pages & The beauty is that those info is very simple & easy to follow .

Lastly I would say please don't make things so complicated & never recommend something to other's of which you have Not much experience.

[gerardo]

Hello again.
not all of the wmo destillers are gone from this page, here I am.
and I have two main problems and one question.
1 I can not get the black color off the final product, need advise.
2 after I left the final product in an open pot the bad smell was gone in about 10 days but semething terrible happened, it turn out in a gum and may be my imagination but it seems to me it turned even more black. any coment on this two questions will help me a lot.
Question 1 when the plastic destllers let the final product rest for long periods of time do you notice any gum formation either in a closed container or in an open container?
regards from mexico.

[Excalibur]

... bad smell was gone.

I read of some possible solutions for the smell which some say is hydrogen sulphide.
1/ "Iron sponge" as a filter.
2/ Add 3-5% Hydrated Lime to your feedstock.
3/ Add sodium bicarbonate , I think this was to the condensed fuel. (I wasn't able to find the website where this remedy was mentioned).

Notes: All these are untested by me, so may or may not work. Please report any findings either way so we can all benefit. Thanks.

[Asad Farooqui]

centrifuge

I read of some possible solutions for the smell which some say is hydrogen sulphide.
1/ "Iron sponge" as a filter.
2/ Add 3-5% Hydrated Lime to your feedstock.
3/ Add sodium bicarbonate ,

Hello ;
1) Hydrated lime I tried will do not much regarding color & smell. I have tried it with WMO .
2) Iron sponge should be tested, Oil refineries use it a lot .

3) WMO derived fuel will be dark in color . If it runs your diesel engine well than color is NO problem.

4) Your WMO derived fuel placed in open air is polymerising & oxidation is also occuring .Its better to place it in closed container .

5) Best thing you could do is before pouring this fuel in your engine, just filter it with a 300 mesh size sieve cloth which will Ensure that all the polymerised & dirt particles are filtered , otherwise your fuel filter will soon clog .

The standard procedure is to cenrifuge but this equipment is not cheap .

Is there someone on the forum who has made a CENTRIFUGE ???

[Uncorruptable]

Hello ;
1) Hydrated lime I tried will do not much regarding color & smell. I have tried it with WMO .
2) Iron sponge should be tested, Oil refineries use it a lot .

3) WMO derived fuel will be dark in color . If it runs your diesel engine well than color is NO problem.

4) Your WMO derived fuel placed in open air is polymerising & oxidation is also occuring .Its better to place it in closed container .

5) Best thing you could do is before pouring this fuel in your engine, just filter it with a 300 mesh size sieve cloth which will Ensure that all the polymerised & dirt particles are filtered , otherwise your fuel filter will soon clog .

The standard procedure is to cenrifuge but this equipment is not cheap .

Is there someone on the forum who has made a CENTRIFUGE ???

Hi asad,

Can you tell me answers to my questions below around WMO?

If i were to distill WMO in this unit, i imagine it is easier in a batch converter to have a non oxgen environment, the oxgen should be displaced from the head before we reach anywhere near 400'c, yes?

Also, WMO would reach a boiling point faster i am guessing yes?

Would i also be right in thinking it should distill quicker than plastics?

[Asad Farooqui]

Wmo

Hi asad,

Can you tell me answers to my questions below around WMO?

HELLO;
YOu asked 3-questions , there answers are ;
YES
YES
YES

[imakebiodiesel]

Hello Asad, First I would like to agree with your earlier post, this topic is " How to turn waste plastic into diesel fuel cheaply" Posts about other activities such as wmo distillation are confusing, especially for those who's first language is not English. This confusion could lead to someone getting hurt or even killed. Im not opposed to wmo distillation, I just think that it should be discussed on a separate thread.
I have built several centrifuges. If you have good metal turning facilities then you can make your own . A good design can be found if you search under Simple Centrifuge. However this type of simple bowl centrifuge cannot operate at revs much above 3000 rpm safely and it will have little effect on waste motor.oil.
The best centrifuge I have built and used was salvaged from an old scania truck engine. This unit is attached to the engine block and continuously cleans the engine oil as the the engine runs.
The spinner is enclosed and spins at about 10,000 rpm, driven by the oil pressure.
I feed the oil to the centrifuge with a salvage power steering pump from a car driven by a 1/2 hp single phase motor. This provides 75psi which is ideal. I can post a picture of the unit if you are interested,
This type of centrifuge can also be found on Russian made Zetor tractors and on various other diesel engines.
CrMoore, I think your proposal for a 10litre unit is simply too small. It would be very inefficient to produce such a small quantity and not useful to even someone driving a small family car. The design I am working on at present will be powered by a domestic kerosene heating burner (30kw output) and should be capable of pyrolysing at least 50kg of waste plastic.

[Uncorruptable]

HELLO;
YOu asked 3-questions , there answers are ;
YES
YES
YES

Thank you very much asad

Hello Asad, First I would like to agree with your earlier post, this topic is " How to turn waste plastic into diesel fuel cheaply" Posts about other activities such as wmo distillation are confusing, especially for those who's first language is not English. This confusion could lead to someone getting hurt or even killed. .................................................. ............,
This type of centrifuge can also be found on Russian made Zetor tractors and on various other diesel engines.
.

I agree fully IMBD, just thought i could sneak in a couple of questions i was not sure about, i did notice when i went looking a while back, there does not appear to be any designated moderators on this site to handle threads that stray of course of if a user is blatently abusive needing to be baanned.

(zetor are czech as far as i know)

[Asad Farooqui]

Wmo

Hello Asad, First I would like to agree with your earlier post, this topic is " How to turn waste plastic into diesel fuel cheaply" Posts about other activities such as wmo distillation are confusing, especially for those who's first language is not English. This confusion could leo units ad to someone getting hurt or even killed. Im not opposed to wmo distillation, I just think that it should be discussed on a separate thread.

I have built several centrifuges. If you have good metal turning facilities then you can make your own .

Hello IMBD;
There is no affective forum for WMO as our's.
I think so there is no harm if WMO pyrolysis is discussed here provided people don't place any WILD-Ideas .
Any idea which should be first Tried & tested & safe is always welcome on this FORUM .

Yes I have a complete metal fabrication facility as Iam making my own pyro-units for commercial purpose also .

I would love to make a centrifuge .

[Beyond Biodiesel]

I cant see the phototbucket pics from here.

At the risk of getting a hand slapping i'll get this one in quick,

If i were to distill WMO in this unit, i imagine it is easier in a batch converter to have a non oxgen environment, the oxgen should be displaced from the head before we reach anywhere near 400'c, yes?

I have already discussed this. If you are not purging your retort and distillation column, regardless of whether you are cracking plastics or distilling WMO, then you are likely to have a serious fire. Oxygen should be removed from your entire process at all times.

Anyone who discusses cracking plastics or distilling WMO, and does not emphasize the importance of removal of oxygen from your process is wholly irresponsible.

Also, WMO would reach a boiling point faster i am guessing yes?

WMO has a lower boiling point than some plastics; however, they are all hydrocarbons and essentially respond in the same way in cracking and distillation, they just have differing boiling points that is it.

Would i also be right in thinking it should distill quicker than plastics?

The time of refluxing and condensation, etc, are the same for all fractions, they just have differing boiling points.

Hello again.
not all of the wmo destillers are gone from this page, here I am.
and I have two main problems and one question.
1 I can not get the black color off the final product, need advise.

If your end product is black you might be having boil-over from your retort. Building a refluxing column is an art. So, keep working on it.

Here are photos of my fractions. They have some interesting colors, but they are not black.

Hello Asad, First I would like to agree with your earlier post, this topic is " How to turn waste plastic into diesel fuel cheaply" Posts about other activities such as wmo distillation are confusing, especially for those who's first language is not English. This confusion could lead to someone getting hurt or even killed...

WMO has a lower boiling point than some plastics; however, they are all hydrocarbons and essentially respond in the same way in cracking and distillation, they just have differing boilings that is it.

However, I can see already that there is some offensive responses to WMO fractionation by some people here. So, if you are interested in further discussion of the cracking and fractionation of WMO and plastics, then you are welcome to join my forum to discuss these matters, as long as you can behave yourself, because I have a low tolerance for offensive responses.
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diesel from recycling plastic
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