How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Col]

HCl converted to AlCl3

I'm sure it was Heartburn that suggested it but I can't find the exact post for it. Suggested putting aluminium in the fuel condenser so if there is any HCl it will produce AlCl3 which is heavier than fuel and has a boiling point of 120C. So it will collect in the condensers cooler than 120C and settle to the bottom for draining off and filtering out. Caution was that any AlCl3 which is not in a water solution will react with water and make more HCL until the solution is balanced.

Water will also collect in any condenser cooler than 120C. Obviously the water will also settle to the bottom - the same place as the AlCl3 - so, we will have the reaction Heartburn mentioned - producing more HCl, exactly what we were trying to avoid by adding aluminium in the first place. My question is - is there any point putting the aluminium in the system if we just end up with HCl again downstream? I guess it would mitigate the corrosion damage to the system between the aluminium location and the water / HCl collection point? Does the presence of HCl in the condenser vessel cooler than 120C pose a significant risk of system corrosion or toxic by-product formation? If so, should we make that condenser out of stainless steel to deter corrosion?

Thanks
Col

[Col]

cleaning fuel and water separation methods

Col, good find with the kerosene! ... Start with oils, and the cleaner and lighter viscosity the better.
Perhaps hop over to BBDs' forum for lots of discussion, ideas, points of view, etc on blending.

I have heard that material suspended in WMO will fall out easier if the WMO is dosed with a bit of solvent like kero. I guess that makes sense simply on the basis of a change in the viscosity of the WMO. So cleaning up the WMO will be easier once blended with kero to match viscosity of diesel. So blend first, then clean up the final fuel? Used hydraulic oil is suitable I suppose?

What is the best way to get rid of water content? My kero source will have some water in it. I don't really want to heat it to 110C to boil out the water if I don't have to, don't get me wrong, I know I've scored here and am happy to work to get a good final product but in terms of conserving fuel and labour would it be better to drain free water then drip it through some absorbent material like the stuff some of the veggie oil guys use? Is it just the same as the stuff used for plant water retaining gel / crystals or kitty wee crystals? Water block filters will absorb water and expand to the point of blocking the filter, not letting any more fluid pass until you change out the cartridge. But that can be expensive. I've seen some other polymer crystals that seem to absorb anything that is not hydrocarbon-based - Bluegrass Fuel Systems, LLC - The FP Filtration Media I figure it could only be beneficial to have such an absorbent and if you separate out the majority of water before passing the fuel through this polymer it appears to have a long life / high absorbing capacity. Are the plant crystals or kitty wee crystals safe to run fuel through? the mystery polymer crystals could be good to turn acidic fuel into good fuel, as the website demonstrates its capacity to absorb acids etc.
Anyone have any comments?
Thanks
Col

[mjohnson1]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

Are you running it at 480 Celsius?

Are you monitoring the temperature inside the retort with a thermocouple? Controlling the outside oven temperature is not good enough.

Have you tested it for leaks?

Are there cold spots? Cold areas could cause waxes to form leaving you with a blockage.

If you can provide us with several pictures of your setup then you will get better advice.

[mjohnson1]

There are many senior members to explain this but as per my view at temperatures above 410 - 430 deg centigrade the hydrocarbon chain further breakes forming hydrogen and carbon and no fuel at all so keep your temp below 420 and try

This is not true at all. Throughout my 50+ tests i've ran mine from 450-470C as i've found fuel yields to be the best at those temperatures.

[sunilkm153]

Thanks. I've updated the blog page of the bubbler (mk6,item9) with a much more detailed description and pics.
Bubbler & drawback arrestor
In short, the yellow vessel is a draw-back-arrestor which prevents bubbler water being sucked back upstream when the retort cools/contracts at shutdown of the process. The arrestor works automatic and though a non-essential addition it is handy to stop water from contaminating the condenser immediately upstream.

Thank you dear friend for promptly upgrading the blog , good implimentation of ideas , have you tested the device practically .

What may be the ideal volume ratio of reactor and draw back arrestor . In your case volume of reactor is 50 Ltr while the yellow cylinder seems to be 4Ltr then if I am right it has 12:1 ratio

[sunilkm153]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

There are many senior members to explain this but as per my view at temperatures above 410 - 430 deg centigrade the hydrocarbon chain further breakes forming hydrogen and carbon and no fuel at all so keep your temp below 420 and try

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi guys, thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. I'll have a look at BBD's forum for further info / ideas.

I hope you find the forum useful. If you want to post there, then you will have to join, then PM me, and I will upgrade your membership as soon as I can get to it.

I have a mate who did some work at a local waste oil processing plant. He reckons these guys put $60K into trying to get kero to blend with waste grease to be sold as industrial burner fuel. Apparently they were having trouble getting the grease to stay in suspension after delivery to the customer, it would fall out into the bottom of the tank and lead to dramas. He says they abandoned the idea. I reckon if you gave $60K to some of the guys on this forum they'd soon figure out a way to keep the blend uniform. Surely even a simple circulating pump (and maybe a heater) on the customer's bulk tank would had to have come close to solving the issue? But I guess 'close enough' is not good enough and I only have one second hand comment to go off.

Cheers.
Col

Blending waste oils with solvents has been an interest of mine for 8 years. I have not tried blending kerosene with grease. It probably poses the same problem as blending animal fat with petroleum distillates. The solution that I have not tried yet, but I think will work is to heat the grease up to fully liquid phase, then blend in a heavier fraction, say diesel fuel, at about 50%. Then allow the blend to cool. Once cool there might be a precipitate, so that will have to be removed, then the liquid blend could be further thinned with a lighter fractions, such as gasoline (petrol) to keep it liquid down to 32F (0c). I plan to try this blend soon as I have an accumulation of animal fat to do something with.

[Mostafagaga]

i want your help really

i put my plastic with bentonit calcuime 10%
in oven 480 degree for 4 hours with pipe to get the vapor but i get nothing at all ???

can any one tells me where is the wrong ????

[ashiki]

In ALL forums, and ALL threads, there should be (at the risk of 'shoulding' on anyone) a rule or guideline that says BEFORE posting, read the thread from the beginning, to see if your question or idea has already been covered.

It ALSO 'should' be 'understood' that EVERY post, from anyone, comes with a built in disclaimer; "This is just MY 'opinion'; and opinions are like *ssholes; everyone HAS one, and most ALL of us, (at one time or another), ARE one."

Speaking for myself, I KNOW there are times when I've acted or reacted in a very *sshole like way, and only realised it AFTER the fact,...;-( Hey, its just part of the human condition!

Anyway, no harm, no foul. Jim

I dont think i will be reading the whole 93 pages of a thread to find a line of info!
.
.
just search it out

[Excalibur]

dear friend Excaliber
today i saw your blog nice work , there you show a water bubbler ( which I thought is one of the major safety equipment for a ideal pyrolysis unit) with a yellow cylinder inverted on one red cylinder would you please explain this design in detail



sunilkm153

Thanks. I've updated the blog page of the bubbler (mk6,item9) with a much more detailed description and pics.
Bubbler & drawback arrestor
In short, the yellow vessel is a draw-back-arrestor which prevents bubbler water being sucked back upstream when the retort cools/contracts at shutdown of the process. The arrestor works automatic and though a non-essential addition it is handy to stop water from contaminating the condenser immediately upstream.

[Col]

blending

Hi guys, thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. I'll have a look at BBD's forum for further info / ideas.

I have a mate who did some work at a local waste oil processing plant. He reckons these guys put $60K into trying to get kero to blend with waste grease to be sold as industrial burner fuel. Apparently they were having trouble getting the grease to stay in suspension after delivery to the customer, it would fall out into the bottom of the tank and lead to dramas. He says they abandoned the idea. I reckon if you gave $60K to some of the guys on this forum they'd soon figure out a way to keep the blend uniform. Surely even a simple circulating pump (and maybe a heater) on the customer's bulk tank would had to have come close to solving the issue? But I guess 'close enough' is not good enough and I only have one second hand comment to go off.

Cheers.
Col

[Col]

cooling the vapours in liquid and level maintenance

why is everyone trying to cool the gasses in condensors prior to entering the collection tanks, I intend to plumb the gas feed directly to the bottom of the collection tanks, then plumb the condensed fluid to a thermostatically controlled hydraulic cooler. I will have to always start the process with fluid in the tanks, but it will be much easier and more efficient to controll the temperature of the fluid that the gas will bubble through than to controll the temp of the gases directly. ultimately this is how a fractionating column works. they allow the gasses to bubble through fluid that is of the desired temperature, the desired fraction will then condense and remain with the fluid in that fraction. Is there any flaw in my thinking?

On an other matter, this unit shown will be both batch and continous feed, I Intend to run it while I work in the welding shop during the day. It will start out with a batch of plastic, that I intend to melt into wmo in the beginning, ( 20 L plastic pails that the oil comes in ) left over solvent and paint, and a bit of rubber from our scrap tires, then I intend to have an oil feed preheated by a coil in the exhast pipe, that will drip wmo and crude oil into the retort so that It may operate uninterupted for 8 to 10 hrs at a time. But I have a small problem, I have no Idea how to monitor the ammount of fluid in the retort after it is sealed up, I considered setting the unit up on a scale so that I may read the weight and adjust feed rate accordingly, anybody have any other suggestions?

Hi thissideup - how did you go piping the vapours through the fluid in your packed condensing tanks versus piping the vapours into a 'dry' section of the condenser to rise up into the packing? Did you achieve a quality product efficiently? Did you find this added to the internal pressure of the system, and did that have an impact on the required temperatures to complete the process? I am drawing my build now and am wondering which way to go.

As for maintaining a certain level in the retort maybe this would work - set a horizontal pipe at the desired oil level, passing from inside the retort out to another tank. This tank has a removable lid for checking on the level, and a quality floating valve similar to those used in a toilet cistern, but all metal. This tank can be made as small as is practical to fit the float valve in, 40L? The float valve is fed from a bulk oil drum which can be topped up as required. As the vapours pass from retort to condensers, oil flows from intermediary drum to retort and oil feeds from bulk drum to intermediary drum via float valve. The oil finds it's own level between intermediary drum and retort, this level is set by the float valve.

Potential issues - is it a problem having a non-closed retort? The horizontal pipe feeding top up oil to the retort would need to be long enough so that 450C heated oil does not make its way back to the intermediary drum where there would be air in the top of the tank. How about passing this pipe through a drum of cold water - would that do the trick? Would the internal pressure of the system (depending on how many times vapours were directed through liquid - diesel, kero and naptha condensers, water bubblers) push hot oil / vapours back along the pipe to the intermediary tank? Even if it did, passing the pipe through a drum of cold water should quench the heat and render it a non-issue.

Your retort looks great! Do you have any pictures of further work?

Col

[sunilkm153]

water bubbler

dear friend Excaliber
today i saw your blog nice work , there you show a water bubbler ( which I thought is one of the major safety equipment for a ideal pyrolysis unit) with a yellow cylinder inverted on one red cylinder would you please explain this design in detail



sunilkm153

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi guys. Can anyone with experience in blending diesel fuel help me out on this one?

I have access to a few hundred litres of dirty, oily kerosene per week for little effort. It is used as degreaser for parts cleaning so there will be some contaminants (watch out for TCE right BBD!) but typically grease, oil, road grime etc. I got a copy of the MSDS for the new product which states the boiling range is 150C-280C with a flash point > 61.5C and a kinematic viscosity < 7cSt @ 40C.

It would appear that if I clean it up and blend oil into it to get the viscosity right I can use it in my work trucks.

Excalibur - given the flash point is fairly high I shouldn't have the issues you mentioned above right? Our temperatures here average 10-30C with some colder and hotter days. I have a couple of 10 year old Isuzu 2 tonners, a new Isuzu 5 tonner and one 10 year old Isuzu 10 tonner.

BBD - Should I stick to a standard lube oil for the blending? I figured if I had access to heavy gear oil or even grease I could add less of it to the kero to match the viscosity. But I wonder if the kero and grease will stay blended or 'fall out' like bitumen does? Would long, 'fluffy' grease molecules be ok going through the engines? Some greases have soap (?) or other additives in them, would that be a concern?

Thanks heaps.
Col.

I agree with Excalibur, if the kerosene is not saturated with ash, or free carbon, turning it black, then, theoretically, it is much easier to filter a waste oil to turn it into a viable fuel, than to distill it. The only reason why I am distilling WMO is because just filtering was not enough to keep it from coking my injectors.

Excalibur's problem appears to be a vapor-lock issue that seems to be unique to his automobile, because few others have the same problems that he is reporting. Nonetheless, the issue of vapor-lock is with light fractions only. Kerosene will be too heavy a fraction to cause vapor-lock.

Nice falling ball viscosometer, imakebiodiesel. I have both a visgage, which is falling ball, and a set of vis-cups. I find the vis-cups easier to use in the field. I would check out your plans on Infopop, but I was banned from there for advocating blending gasoline with waste oils to make diesel fuel. They also ban people for burning WMO. I suppose plastic pyrolysis people will be banned from there as well.

[imakebiodiesel]

By coincidence I have just recently developed a simple cheap apparatus for measuring viscosity accurately in centistokes. It would be very useful to anyone who is blending different fuels. Essentially it is a transparent tube filled with liquid that you drop a small ball into. You time how long it takes the ball to fall 1 m and enter that time and the density of the liquid into Stokes Formula and you get the viscosity.

There is a more detailed description and discussion over on the biodiesel infopop forum at
Falling Ball Viscometer - Topic
I have tested my synthetic kerosene against commercial kerosene and have a match to within 1 decimal point.