How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[waterboost]

Glycerine



I did a batch yesterday with crude glycerine (biofuel waste) mixed with LDPE sheets and I am glad I had a Gas Mask available. It stunk, I cant even begin to identify the smell...

The fuel was mostly water (approx 3 litres) for the first hour or so and then we got some nasty black oil, nothing like the beautiful fuel we have produced before...

The gas production from the non-condensed fuel was much higher and again, stinky... not sulphur or chlorine...

The light fractions we made previously work beautifully in a petrol engine.

We started with a strimmer and that sounded fantastic! So we tried a mini moto and that was brilliant too!

Then I borrowed an oil lamp and put some of the nice diesel in... And there was light too! Then I borrowed an old oil wick stove and the flames were blue with no smells... I have since used it indoors... I am amazed...

Anyone else tried the fuel for cooking, heating, transport and lighting?

[fibuslitero]

Glycerine

Hi Waterboost:
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience.
That is an experiment I wanted to do with 100% glycerine.
Can you tell us more or less the % of each (ldpe and Glycerine)?.

It is a solid alcohol so if it reaches a liquid stage it is supposed to work as gasoline but with significant lower power.
In biodigesters it generates CH4 so makes sense the high production of gas.

I am also aiming to burn it initially instead of wood (or mixed) for the plastics reactor heating.

Did you completely extract methanol from glycerine or was it still mixed?.

Thank you.

I did a batch yesterday with crude glycerine (biofuel waste) mixed with LDPE sheets and I am glad I had a Gas Mask available. It stunk, I cant even begin to identify the smell...

The fuel was mostly water (approx 3 litres) for the first hour or so and then we got some nasty black oil, nothing like the beautiful fuel we have produced before...

The gas production from the non-condensed fuel was much higher and again, stinky... not sulphur or chlorine...

The light fractions we made previously work beautifully in a petrol engine.

We started with a strimmer and that sounded fantastic! So we tried a mini moto and that was brilliant too!

Then I borrowed an oil lamp and put some of the nice diesel in... And there was light too! Then I borrowed an old oil wick stove and the flames were blue with no smells... I have since used it indoors... I am amazed...

Anyone else tried the fuel for cooking, heating, transport and lighting?

[imakebiodiesel]

Glycerine/glycerol heated to around 400c will produce Acrolein , a nasty chemical with a very nasty smell. The word acrolein comes from the word acrid. It was used by the British in the first world war as a poison gas weapon but they finally settled on chlorine gas because it did not disperse so quickly.

I had my light fraction (petrol) tested last year and it is 98 octane. I can confirm that two stroke engines run really well on it. I have also run a primus cook stove, a VW polo and my Imco petrol cigarette lighter on it.

The heavier fraction you have produced is likely to be more like kerosene than diesel because of your low reflux temperatures so if you are going to run a diesel engine on it add 5% new motor oil to it to improve the lubrication.
I have run a kerosene central heating burner (Riello 40 series), a paraffin heater, a hurricane lamp and a petromax pressure lantern on it and as you say it works beautifully with almost no smell.

The humble hurricane lamp is a useful tester for fuel quality. If you put high quality kerosene/ paraffin into a hurricane lame it will burn with a steady whitish flame with a narrow invisible band below.
The more diesel(heavy fraction) the fuel contains the more yellow and smokey the flame becomes.
The more petrol ( light fraction) the fuel contains the higher the invisible part of the flame becomes and therefore the less light it produces.
I takes a bit of practice to be able to judge but its a useful test.

[Tplane37]

Not really a helpful addition to the thread, but for comical entertainment and customization of our units, I am considering snagging a Mr. Fusion replica... if I can figure out how to keep it from melting. The replicas can be ordered from O'Reily's Auto Parts again.

EB Enterprises 121GMF - Flux Capacitor | O'Reilly Auto Parts

[waterboost]

Hi Waterboost:
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience.
That is an experiment I wanted to do with 100% glycerine.
Can you tell us more or less the % of each (ldpe and Glycerine)?.
...
Did you completely extract methanol from glycerine or was it still mixed?.

Thank you.

2Kg LDPE and 5litres of Glycerine...

We collected what looked like 3 litres of water, if it was methanol it wouldnt burn... The first condensate came out at about 80 degrees which I was convinced was Methanol... hence the burn test...

Strange side note: My Condensers, the second two are always cold, got hot very quickly early on in the process and then cooled mid way??? So some hot and difficult to condense gas was being made, I actually thought the unit was on fire in the condensers...

The fuel is dark brown, the first litre was Ok the next day but the following litre was almost pure wax after it had cooled....

We turned the unit off as the fuel was so poor and decided to refill it with something else... I want some more hard plastic... the PP pellets were amazing...

I settled for a brass badge that swings over a viewing window engraved with "Mr Fusion".... How much is a REAL fake Mr Fusion?

As for running/heating the retort with Glycerine, I wouldnt dream of putting glycerine in it. It has to be combusted for a long period of time and I suspect may even require a primary fuel to burn it cleanly... The viscosity of the stuff I have is variable to say the least and the smell!

I picked up an auger yesterday night, something I stumbled over on Ebay... it was advertised as 15ft long... its actually 29ft long! Its only 4" pipe but its a small step towards making a continuous unit... its upsetting me putting all that energy into warming the unit and then its almost time to turn it off...

[Excalibur]

Hi all,
just a note to let the team know that I've started a new iteration of turk-retort. I've posted the first pics on my blog of the mk6 parts, with more to follow.

Basic plan:
Retort 46 liters with refractory.
Continuos feed.
Force draft air fan.
Fuel: diesel burner IP & gas recycling.
Stainless heat exchanger, water cooled.
Gas jar
Heat recovery
Arduino monitoring & control

That should keep me amused for a while....

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Not really a helpful addition to the thread, but for comical entertainment and customization of our units, I am considering snagging a Mr. Fusion replica... if I can figure out how to keep it from melting. The replicas can be ordered from O'Reily's Auto Parts again.

EB Enterprises 121GMF - Flux Capacitor | O'Reilly Auto Parts

I think comic relief is good idea. I have been thinking of adding the flux capacitor warning sign to my reactor.

But mounting a Mr. Fusion replica on it sounds good to

I look forward to seeing your results Excalibur.

[imakebiodiesel]

Spent a few hours today testing my new reactor. Good news all round. The Riello 40 series burner works a treat and is nice and quiet. I put 2 litres of water in the retort and fired it up. Within 2 minutes the water began to boil, the metal wall of the retort above the water was at 250C within 5 minutes. I closed the retort and tested the condenser and scrubber for leaks, amazingly none at all. My next test will be to pressurize the whole system with compressed air and see does the pressure drop over 24 hours.
The kerosene burner is actually too powerful and I will probably have to heat the retort up in stages. However thats a lot better than the burner not being powerful enough.
If all is well I should be doing my first large batch next week.

[ranjith]

can we use microwaves as a heating source.. and reduce the time of extraction..

[imakebiodiesel]

This is already being done by an American company. If you search on Utube you will find a video of their patented process.

[palmtrees]

diesel

[IMG][/IMG]

Hi xyverster. welcome to the thread. Your outfit is the simplest Ive ever seen but it obviously works. The high loop of copper pipe works as a reflux on the way up and a condenser on the way down. The brick on the lid is an effective if a bit crude pressure relief valve. Well done liquid fuel first time.

Its difficult to know for sure from the picture but the dark layer in the bottom of the fuel may be water. Any moisture in the retort will boil out and be captured in your condenser.
Paint , glue etc will contain some volatiles which will boil out and mix with your fuel and also some non volatiles that will stay in the retort and become char

Your question about fuel quality is a good one and one that we must all consider carefully. 10 or 15 years ago diesel engines were typically simple robust machines that could run happily on a wide range of fuels. Many people would have mixed vegetable oil with their diesel or like Beyond Biodiesel mixed finely filtered waste motor oil with petrol to make up a fuel.
Scince 2000 most car and van makers in Europe have adopted common rail injection systems or other high pressure injection systems. This new type of engine will not tolerate even slightly off spec fuel and serious and expensive damage can be done in a very short time.
My advice to anyone who wants to experiment with fuels is to buy an old, late nineties, diesel vehicle with a rotary injection pump, mechanical injectors and if possible indirect injection. These engines are very tolerant of fuel quality and if the worst comes to the worst, spare parts are cheap and easily available from breakers yards.
Looking into the future it would be a good idea to devise a set of simple standardized tests that would allow small scale plastic to fuelers to assess the quality of their fuel and compare it with others. In the Biodieselinfopop forum we have done exactly that and the result is that most members now make fuel well above the minimum spec.

Hi i am new on here and been reading all the info that is on here wow a lot. i have had a go making some fuel from pe and only get wax so i tired pp and got better fuel, now this is the thing my first run of pp i got a red fuel i have filter it and you can see though it, it smell very strong and lots fume just like petrol but is it or is this how the diesel fuel from plastic is meant to be like, all so i have tried it in my vw camper van which is 30 years old it starts and runs a pit lumpy some blue smoke on tick-over the blue smoke goes when you rev it, i have some pic of the fuel could you help me with this many thanks and keep up with the good work, Picasa Web Albums - keith hall - 10-03-2013

[Excalibur]

Welcome palmtrees
As you've been reading all the info on this thread, you'll now know that the cause of your wax from PE was a reflux problem. So it's easily fixed.

The strong smell is the same as distilled fuel from waste oil. I seem to remember reading about the oil companies having a process to scrub the fuel and remove the odor. It goes just the same but you don't want to get any on your clothes!

[imakebiodiesel]

Hi Palmtrees,
Your fuel is a mixture of waxes, diesel,kerosene and petrol. The best way to find out how much of each is to do the BP test to it. This is described a few pages back. Most engines will tolerate up to about 20% kerosene/petrol in their diesel fuel but if the BP test shows that you have more than that you would be best to separate off the lighter distillate and use it for something else. The wax , as Excalibur says, is a reflux problem and can be reduced by improving the design of your reactor.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Recent experiments with o-rings in various solvents has shown that conducting an o-ring test is it is an incredibly simply, and inexpensive test that anyone can execute. All one needs is a source of o-rings. I bought my o-rings for testing from The O-ring Store. There I bought Buna-N 70, Silicone 70 and V75 Viton o-rings.

The Buna-N 70 o-rings are the cheapest and most common seal in automotive engineering. The Silicone 70, V75 Viton were pretty expensive. $37 for 10 Silicone 70. I used them up already, and have ordered another 10 o-rings to complete the series of tests.

I plan to from now on test the lightest fractions of my distillates with this o-ring test.

Silicone 70 reacts to alcohols, and pure gum turpentine, but not to polar solvents, nor petroleum distillates.

Silicone 70 reaction to pure gum turpentine.

Silicone 70 reaction to the alcohol in oxygenated gasoline at 100%

Buna-N 70 and V75 Viton reaction to acetone at 100%

[imakebiodiesel]

Its not clear from the pictures what the reaction is. Some of the rings seem to be a brownish colour, is that the reaction?
I have been testing different types of o ring material for about 6 months. Its important not to immerse the o ring completely in the fuel. I suspend the o ring half in the fuel. That way you can see is there is any reaction where air is available. So far my results are...
Natural rubber...Stickiness below the surface and swelling at the surface.
Buna n... slight stickiness below the surface.
Viton... no effect .