How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[palmtrees]

wmo

Hi thanks for the info will take it all in mind, i have been in the garden building the new reactor got it all weld up today, it is three gas bottle welded to each other, got to get some pipe now pipe size will be 2 inch round, for the lid i am going to use flat 2 inch thick sheets of metal with 1 inch thick asbestos for a gasket as they wont a lot of money to make a v grove here, i am going to let all the fuel go into one condenser at the moment then fractional distillation, for the cat i am going to use cat litter and costic soda mixed

[harsh911]

Celsius or Fahrenheit

Hi Mart.
The quality of the fuel was already tested, it is about 90-95% diesel and 5-10% gasoline. This works great in liquid fuel burners. If you need it for a diesel engine, you just need to heat the fuel to abut 250 degrees till all gasoline evaporates and you now have pure diesel.

Do you mean 250 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit ?

[imakebiodiesel]

I presume Jetjys means Celcius. At that temp both petrol and kerosene fractions will boil off. If you just want to get rid of the petrol fraction then 175 Celsius is enough.

[waterboost]

Wet Plastic

Has anyone tried damp/wet plastic?

All 3 times we have tried damp plastic, we got better fuel... the water that comes out seems to have all the brown colours and the fuel is like fresh healthy urine.... as opposed to brown fuel and some waxes that settle out

I'm picking up some PVC later to try HCl absorbtion thing....

The plan is.... mix some strong sodium hydroxide solution to moisten the PVC.... throw in some Calcium Carbonate..... The Water and the Calcium will absord the HCl (in theory) before it creates dioxins, etc..... and the Sodium Hydroxide will neutralise the acidity....

Any thoughts? fears? concerns?

[palmtrees]

wmo

[QUOTE=Beyond Biodiesel;228665]palmtrees, it sounds like you were getting boil-over, which is common in petroleum distillation. It takes quite some art to avoid boil-over.

I have found the heavier the fraction the darker it is, and re-distilling it is not likely to remove the darkness, because the heavier fractions are just dark, although it is worth trying.[/QUOTE

Hi Beyond Biodiesel,
have u seen this video before

SENER used oil re-refining process - YouTube

this is not that far from me i may take a look and see what info i can find out to make my set up better.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Has anyone tried damp/wet plastic?

All 3 times we have tried damp plastic, we got better fuel... the water that comes out seems to have all the brown colours and the fuel is like fresh healthy urine.... as opposed to brown fuel and some waxes that settle out

Interesting, but I do not see why? Is the plastic damp with sea water or rain? Sea water has salt in it, and may have some catalytic effect.

I'm picking up some PVC later to try HCl absorbtion thing....

The plan is.... mix some strong sodium hydroxide solution to moisten the PVC.... throw in some Calcium Carbonate..... The Water and the Calcium will absord the HCl (in theory) before it creates dioxins, etc..... and the Sodium Hydroxide will neutralise the acidity....

Any thoughts? fears? concerns?

Here, I think trying to process PVC is going to result in dioxin production down stream and copious HCL emissions. So, be prepared.

Hi Beyond Biodiesel,
have u seen this video before

SENER used oil re-refining process - YouTube

this is not that far from me i may take a look and see what info i can find out to make my set up better.

Thanks palmtrees, for the interesting video on a commercial WMO distillation concept. The things that they are doing that most of us are not doing are:

1) Analyzing the oil before processing.

I am not sure what it is they are looking for, maybe they are excluding very warn out oils and keeping the better quality oils. Or, maybe they are looking for hydraulic oils, which are clear.

2) They are doing liquid propane extraction prior to distillation.

This is an interesting idea. Perhaps liquid propane works as a solvent to extract clear oils from the black stuff. We could try something like this. It would require a process at 100PSI, which is do-able by any of us, because standard tapered thread plumbing fittings and pipe can handle that pressure, and all one would need is a recycled compressor tank to mix the liquid propane with the WMO, then settle, or centrifuge the solution at 100PSI, and most filters are designed for that pressure.

Operating a centrifuge in a 100PSI environment would be interesting. I suppose it could be done with a pressure driven centrifuge with its outlet at 100PSI, which means its inlet would have to be 200PSI. Then, it would have to automatically eject the sediments.

3) Vacuum distillation.

I am the only I know of doing that, and my fractions are still coming out fairly dark, but I have thought of running my distillate through the process a second time, which might clean it up significantly. I will give that a try soon.

[palmtrees]

wmo

Interesting, but I do not see why? Is the plastic damp with sea water or rain? Sea water has salt in it, and may have some catalytic effect.

Here, I think trying to process PVC is going to result in dioxin production down stream and copious HCL emissions. So, be prepared.

Thanks palmtrees, for the interesting video on a commercial WMO distillation concept. The things that they are doing that most of us are not doing are:

1) Analyzing the oil before processing.

I am not sure what it is they are looking for, maybe they are excluding very warn out oils and keeping the better quality oils. Or, maybe they are looking for hydraulic oils, which are clear.

2) They are doing liquid propane extraction prior to distillation.

This is an interesting idea. Perhaps liquid propane works as a solvent to extract clear oils from the black stuff. We could try something like this. It would require a process at 100PSI, which is do-able by any of us, because standard tapered thread plumbing fittings and pipe can handle that pressure, and all one would need is a recycled compressor tank to mix the liquid propane with the WMO, then settle, or centrifuge the solution at 100PSI, and most filters are designed for that pressure.

Operating a centrifuge in a 100PSI environment would be interesting. I suppose it could be done with a pressure driven centrifuge with its outlet at 100PSI, which means its inlet would have to be 200PSI. Then, it would have to automatically eject the sediments.

3) Vacuum distillation.

I am the only I know of doing that, and my fractions are still coming out fairly dark, but I have thought of running my distillate through the process a second time, which might clean it up significantly. I will give that a try soon.

1.warn out oils, oils do not wear look at is link,

Re-refined Oil is an Environmentally Friendly Closed-Loop Product - YouTube
2, running my distillate through the process a second time, which might clean it up significantly. try it i have and it works, here is a link. Home petroleum refinery (Petrol recovery) - YouTube

see what you think

[imakebiodiesel]

Water has 2 beneficial effects in the retort and condenser.
The first is it acts as a very effective purge, forcing the air out of the system before cracking begins.
The second is that carboxylic acids that are produced by cracking will dissolve in water or steam rather than the fuel. This is why the water comes out brown and the fuel is paler.

[PLASTICTRIX]

My 1 kg reactor has 1" pipe between retort and reflux and it is just about sufficient for that small amount of material. 1 kg of plastic barely 1/3 fills the retort. Keep in mind that if that pipe blocks you have a bomb on your hands.
My new 50 kg retort has a 3" pipe and Im fairly confident it will be big enough.

The more I play around with redesigning my currently torn down reactor, the more I have the urge to do away with the pipe to reflux to pipe to condenser to condenser to condenser... I am constantly in fear of the pipe getting blocked and causing some type of terrible disaster due to heating too fast and getting the dreaded plastic plug effect. Even after 20 or so runs, standing next to 80+gallons of 400c plastic is rather unnerving to me..I thought i would get used to it but i guess i am just a whimp
I have done the math and have decided on going with a tall large dia. direct top mounted tower with a series of trays and mushroom traps (much like a full scale refinery column) I figure with my larger retort this will be the safest most effective way to go because of the large diameter and multiple outlets, it would almost be impossible to get a dangerous clog.
I am going to use 2 large tall oxy welding type bottles and cut them into 6-16 inch sections then weld in trays with s.s. collection wool at each stage with drain outlets for each stage and stack it to the sky..the first few stages will have valved bypass returns piped back to the retort so i have a fully adjustable reflux and can send back heavies on the fly. Each tray will be long piped away into ambient temp drain off tanks (for each fraction) that will all be vented together via header pipe into a large bubbler.
Wish me luck
I promise to post pics of the build and testing of entire unit this summer.

[imakebiodiesel]

I agree with you about pipes, they are a constant danger of becoming a dangerous bottleneck. The only advantage of them is that you can change the length of pipes to increase/decrease cooling. This is very useful at the start when experimenting but a liability later.
If I might make a suggestion, If you make each section of the cracking tower with PN16 flanges the the whole tower could be bolted together with graphite gaskets ( good for 100bar at 1000 degreesC). This means that it could be taken apart for maintenance, cleaning or modification.

[waterboost]

...The second is that carboxylic acids that are produced by cracking will dissolve in water or steam rather than the fuel. This is why the water comes out brown and the fuel is paler.

That explains it....

The 50 litre batch unit we made has a 3" reflux which remains 3" all the way to the condenser. The pipe is lightly filled with stainless pan scrubs... no chance of blocking and its less than 2ft long which gives us plenty of room for forced air cooling of the reflux.

Went to a Polymer collection centre yesterday, it was huge... inside 2 steel factories... If I want good feedstock, it can be expensive, £500+ per 1,000KG... however the bad feedstock, they will pay me to take away. I have a bag for a sample, it is mostly pp and pe of various grades, v.dirty, with bits of cardboard and the odd ball of polystyrene... it may also contain traces of PVC.

I decided not to bother trying a big bag of solid PVC due to the 50+% chlorine and only 8% Hydrogen, I cant imagine it making much fuel.... Instead, I will try a bag of random floor sweepings with wet sodium hydroxide and see what transpires... The Chlorine will hopefully react with the Sodium and water before it has chance to contaminate the fuel or me and my friends and neighbours....

All the best to everyone on this forum who has contributed in a positive way...

Is anyone on here running a commercial sized unit?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

1.warn out oils, oils do not wear look at is link,

Re-refined Oil is an Environmentally Friendly Closed-Loop Product - YouTube
2, running my distillate through the process a second time, which might clean it up significantly. try it i have and it works, here is a link. Home petroleum refinery (Petrol recovery) - YouTube

see what you think

In my experience with burning WMO for about 6 years, is as it ages it accumulates:

1) WMO accumulates polymerized oils that have a boiling point of about 160F (70c), which accumulate in the oil circuit at cold points. This is the sludge people report.

2) WMO also accumulates dissolved solids, which result in increased ash content in the engine, which results in increased wear on the engine.

3) WMO also accumulates soot, which does not burn well, and tends to bond with ash to produce coke.

These are the reasons why I now distill WMO before I burn it, and change my motor oil frequently.

[imakebiodiesel]

I had no idea that polymerized oil had such a low boiling point. I have a heating system that heats my house that runs on waste vegetable oil, in fact the heated fuel tank normally contains yellow grease and lard thats not fit for making biodiesel.
I ran out of fuel a couple of weeks ago and decided to try waste motor oil in it. It worked fine but the tip of the preheated drip tube that feeds the burner constantly has a small flame . I thought it must be petrol or something volatile that got mixed with the oil but now Im thinking it was the polymerized oil you mentioned.
You learn something every day.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Since you have a WVO system and are now experimenting with WMO, then I should warn you that the high melting point polymerized fraction in WMO will not dissolve into WVO, so even small amounts of WVO residues in your system will cause this polymerized fraction in WMO to precipitate out of solution and glue something in your WVO system bad.

So, when I switch from WVO to WMO I will do a purge with pump diesel first. Or, now days if I am going to run WMO, then it is distilled first.

[PLASTICTRIX]

I agree with you about pipes, they are a constant danger of becoming a dangerous bottleneck. The only advantage of them is that you can change the length of pipes to increase/decrease cooling. This is very useful at the start when experimenting but a liability later.
If I might make a suggestion, If you make each section of the cracking tower with PN16 flanges the the whole tower could be bolted together with graphite gaskets ( good for 100bar at 1000 degreesC). This means that it could be taken apart for maintenance, cleaning or modification.

Thanks for the input! Adding bolt on plate flanges is a great idea, provided i can scrounge up the funds to do so, they are not very cheap. As far as keeping the temps where i want them I will add thermocouples to monitor every stage. I plan on starting out testing the entire column without any insulation then possibly adding some down low only where needed, then I figure I will probably have to add a fan for cooling or cold water coil up on the top to dial in the top end.
I am thinking a larger dia. column is probably going have the tendency to want to run and stay hotter then a smaller diameter piped setup, i may only have to cool it.
It should be interesting never the less.