How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[jonathan]

pyrolysis oil

thanks excalibur..l ask you because my friend put biodiesel in megane i dont remember the model and it doesnt work well (hard knocking) after a while the fuel filter blocked..after he replaced the filter and start again with same proplem then he put more diesel in car and it comes better....i dont know why

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Also about that compression fitting, couldn't we find one that alows a rod to move through it? Maybe graphite one... And we atach a empty steel ball (like toillet vessel)that floats in the reactor, to be moved up and down by the feedstock in the reactor? Of course the probe should witstand expansion from the heat and not jam at high temperatures.

Some points here:
1) It is common practice in the lab to drill out a compression fitting so that a TC can be run through it.
2) I know the 1/16" TCs work fine to 1200F (650c), because I spent a year at Chevron Research doing it, as did most of the other researchers there did.
3) A float is not going to work in a retort, because it will be a vigorously boiling caldron with a lot of foam on top.

[fox32]

Some points here:
1) It is common practice in the lab to drill out a compression fitting so that a TC can be run through it.
2) I know the 1/16" TCs work fine to 1200F (650c), because I spent a year at Chevron Research doing it, as did most of the other researchers there did.
3) A float is not going to work in a retort, because it will be a vigorously boiling caldron with a lot of foam on top.

Maybe a sturdy heavy float will go through the foam and settle on the liquid. while reading this i had an ideea dunno how viable would be.
I was thinking at a pipe connected to the reactor with a neodium magnet float.On the outside an iron ball. THe pipe would have to be from some nonmagnetic material, thus the magnetic field moving the ball up and down.

Now this section should also be isolated and the reactor may need more heat to compensate this section too.
And another problem, how do you atach, weld another material on the iron reactor.Any thoughts on this?


just an ideea.jpg

[Hoddamdg11]

Level Notes

Some info on level measurement
As far as level measurement goes there are lots of options but the most common for vessels is to measure the head produced by the height of liquid in the vessel. It requires tappings at the top and bottom of the vessel and a trickle purge to both tappings to insulate the differential pressure measuring instrument from the vessel liquid. The purge flow, usually water, is set to the same value for both using rotameters and the effects should cancel each other out. That’s the theory. Kero or oil or some other liquid could be used instead of water.
The other ones I remember which could be suitable are Capacitive, Ultrasonic, and Radiation.
The capacitive ones measure the change in capacitance resulting from a level change. This uses a probe inserted in the top of the vessel. This would probably be the cheaper option.
The Ultrasonic ones bounce a high frequency pulse off the liquid.
The Radiation ones have a radioactive source which is attenuated by the liquid and picked up by a detector on the other side of the vessel.
All of these would be too sophisticated and expensive for a backyard operation.
If the idea is to control the level, some of them may be confused by the production of bubbles but then that may be good for preventing boilover by detecting the level of the bubbles.
Mechanical systems also have various disadvantages. The float and vertical rod has problems with the friction on the gland required for a seal. Another float idea is to use a magnet in a non magnetic vessel and a follower on the outside, which is not really suitable for a furnace. See magnets used to clean fish tanks. Here’s a thought - the follower could be in a sealed tube up the middle of the vessel, so it wouldn’t need a gland seal. The vertical rod mentioned by fox32 could be attached to the follower as the indicator but would need to be light weight.

[Col]

heat exchanger

Hi Kedigen
Wow, nice work. Do you intend to use the shell and tube heat exchanger in the retort or to pre-heat the feedstock or cool the distillate? If it is used in either of the first two options do you have any strategies for cleaning it out?
Col

[Hoddamdg11]

Level Notes 2

I’ve just remembered an extremely simple level measurement method – the bubbler. This normally consists of a tube sticking down into the vessel, supplied with compressed air by an air regulator. This is adjusted to produce a small stream of bubbles through the liquid, and as the level increases so does the back pressure thus indicating the level on a pressure gauge. For our purposes the compressed air could be replaced by our purge gas. Disadvantages would be that variations in our bubbler back pressure or existing purge would upset the reading, they would need to be fixed or compensated for, say by using a differential pressure device e.g. a U-tube manometer. Advantages are simplicity, robustness and relative cheapness.
It could also be used to show a point level by cutting off the tube at the required level and an increase in back pressure would show the level had been reached. It could also be used as a blockage detector to shut down the system.
A low level pressure switch could be recycled from an old washing machine as the high water level cutoff uses the back pressure caused by the rising water level compressing the air in a tube and operating a pressure switch to shut off the water solenoid.

[Excalibur]

Hoddamdg11
I love the idea. Superbly simple. I thought that off-gases could be used for the task. They would need lightly pressurizing at just a few psi and fed through a regulator. The tube could possibly be piped to the bottom and the gauge would register whatever pressure equated to the particular level.
Yes, the bubbler would cause some distortion to the reading. My gasjar would give still more backpressure perhaps 1psi or so confounding the reading still further. Perhaps a small hose could be connected to the vapor stream and the pressure be applied to a diaphragm proportionally increasing the regulators spring pressure. This would work like a rising rate fuel pressure regulator in a fuel injector car. On the other hand, the extra pressure would need to be factored into equating it to a level so I'm not sure if you'd be any further ahead.

Re the float with magnet follower. I did some research a few weeks ago chasing magnets for this idea. If I recall correctly not all magnets like the temperature of 425°C.
The float might be affected by bubbles though there might be a point where the float was too heavy to be affected but still light enough to float on the liquid.
Then there is the Archimedes principle where a float can be below the surface but still have relative buoyancy. I found a number of tank level devices using this.

[wheels]

Hoddamdg11
I love the idea. Superbly simple. I thought that off-gases could be used for the task. They would need lightly pressurizing at just a few psi and fed through a regulator. The tube could possibly be piped to the bottom and the gauge would register whatever pressure equated to the particular level.
Yes, the bubbler would cause some distortion to the reading. My gasjar would give still more backpressure perhaps 1psi or so confounding the reading still further. Perhaps a small hose could be connected to the vapor stream and the pressure be applied to a diaphragm proportionally increasing the regulators spring pressure. This would work like a rising rate fuel pressure regulator in a fuel injector car. On the other hand, the extra pressure would need to be factored into equating it to a level so I'm not sure if you'd be any further ahead.

Re the float with magnet follower. I did some research a few weeks ago chasing magnets for this idea. If I recall correctly not all magnets like the temperature of 425°C.
The float might be affected by bubbles though there might be a point where the float was too heavy to be affected but still light enough to float on the liquid.
Then there is the Archimedes principle where a float can be below the surface but still have relative buoyancy. I found a number of tank level devices using this.

Some good ideas. I still see some little issues with each. Mainly with the expansion issue. The volume of oil will increase ruffly 30%, but it's weight does not and thus measurement of "head" pressure won't register a change. Also to gain accurate "Head" Pressure readings, you would need the tube to be as close to the bottom of the tank as possible and of course you have that 200mm odd of Carbon accumulating at the bottom.
A float would work, but it is going to need to be able to handle 400+deg and if hollow metal, not explode due to pressure increase from the heat.
Bubbling might work, but you are going to need a very sensitive gauge to measure with. And I a, not sure what exactly would happen if the Oil is in any form of Rolling boil.
The most simplest may simply be a short piece of Pyrex Glass Tube as a sight glass and encase it in a steel tube for protection, with a slot cut down the side so you can see a narrow section of the glass.
Or as you have often said, those Pyrex glass viewing ports you have.

[fox32]

too bad there is no perfect solution for us backyard builders. I don't think the buble would work in an environment already full of bubbles. Didn't thought the float would explode...maybe made from pumice coated in molten aluminium.

About the magnets, if you are still into it, a Samarium - cobalt magnet should work, it is good up to 800c (curie point)


I was thinking earlier and another concept came to my mind, i see it workin there so bare with me.

A serated(with holes?) pipe the size of the retort, put inside the retort,and divided into 10 cm chambers all it's lenght. Every chamber should acomodate a metal ball that could float. Basically it would have one float in every section.
At the top of each section, 2 terminals positive and negative. When the level rises, it raise the ball until it touches the 2 terminals completing the circuit, and lights a led outside. And so on.
The wires would have to be all screwd in, no solder, and only ceramic coating. Some low intensity current so no sparks...

I can visualize it work, but some other thoughts are well appreciated. Some low intensity current so no sparks...

[Beyond Biodiesel]

I was thinking at a pipe connected to the reactor with a neodium magnet float.On the outside an iron ball. THe pipe would have to be from some nonmagnetic material, thus the magnetic field moving the ball up and down.

Now this section should also be isolated and the reactor may need more heat to compensate this section too.
And another problem, how do you atach, weld another material on the iron reactor.Any thoughts on this?
[ATTACH]14557[/ATTACH]

The sight glass that you suggested here could work as a level indicator, because it would be out of the way of the fierce bubbling that occurs in the retort. It would have to be insulated, and allowed to be at elevated temperature, but below the 500F 260c) working temperature limit of a necessary high temperature elastomeric seal.

one way to implement it would be to weld two tapered thread fittings on the side of the retort, then a Pyrex tube could be sealed between two compression fittings, one on each end. The ferrules would have to be high temperature elastomerics, such as teflon or viton. An compression elbow at each end of the tube, would allow the sight glass to be attached to the retort. The sight glass would have to be held above the transition temperature of the hydrocarbon being pyrolyzed.

[fox32]

Actually if we put a pyerx glass, it would look like the professional one. Unfortunatley the clossest i can afford to pyrex glass is an oven door from scrapheap, so i got to find something simpler, and preferably something that wouldn't need major modifications to the retort. A very simnple idea come to mind today, while cutting and measuring some wood planks.

How about a steel ruler, put on top of the retort in a glass continer sealed tight and actioned by a hand crank. The ruller goes into the retort through a small opening and you wind it until you can see oil on it.(like a car oil probe) It is already marked with cm, basically the whole mecanism exist in the ruller, we just need to atach it to a crank and build a glass box around it. The problems i see would be the glass box geting foggy from the vapors, and the worst will be, if the vapors make the whole ruller wet and spoil the reading.

On another page, isn't it there a device that could read if there is water in a pipe? I think i saw something like that long time ago at a plumber.

[Excalibur]

Fox32, if you're thinking of a sight glass then this page lists critical temperatures for pyrex borosilicate. Better would appear to be fused quartz with continuous operating temperature of 1000°C.

Listed here is a possible gasket material fiberfrax quoted range (+704°C – +1260°C)

Ebay fused quartz listing is the cheapest I have found. 105mm x 8mm disk.
I've been eyeing these for a while trying to decide if I could add one to the side of the reflux. I'm busting to be able to see in there

Should a sight window be fitted anywhere, a safety shutter could be added outboard of it so in case of emergency it could be hastily closed. Just a thought.

Whether they'd stay clean enough to see is another question entirely.

[mercedes 308]

so can l use another material like cement to binder and holds the particles together..ash+glass+cement or other material?

60% sand and 40% plaster of paris. will take high temperatures, more than you will need.

[fox32]

Fox32, if you're thinking of a sight glass then this page lists critical temperatures for pyrex borosilicate. Better would appear to be fused quartz with continuous operating temperature of 1000°C.

Listed here is a possible gasket material fiberfrax quoted range (+704°C – +1260°C)

Ebay fused quartz listing is the cheapest I have found. 105mm x 8mm disk.
I've been eyeing these for a while trying to decide if I could add one to the side of the reflux. I'm busting to be able to see in there

Should a sight window be fitted anywhere, a safety shutter could be added outboard of it so in case of emergency it could be hastily closed. Just a thought.

Whether they'd stay clean enough to see is another question entirely.

Those lens look really good, it would be a nice addition to the pyrolisis unit. Actually i was thinking at a sight glass, let-s say your sight glass, put it on top of the retort and put this http://www.sculesiechipamente.ro/med...melon_1002.jpg in it atached to a crank, so one could raise and lower it into the retort thus seeing the oil level. But i found something tested and trialed here A Dozen Ways to Measure Fluid Level and How They Work | Sensors The displacer one looks the most promising to me, it looks like it could be done in a diy environment.What do you guys think?

Also on the relative cheap side, i'we found this -> DIAL GAUGE LEVEL METER - TOWA SEIDEN INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD.


P.s. Sorry if my english gives you head aches, it sounds way better in my native language.

[piu.iuu]

Hi Andrew, yes, we modified the condensers putting three together in hope to searate diesel from gasoline, but the condensers were not heated and it did not work. Might be that only insulating the first condenser will do the trick, but it would not be reliabe as the temperatures need to be kept constant.

Jetijs

I was thinking, try using High Temperature Heating Cords you can get them at BriskHeat HWC High Temperature Heating Cord: High Temperatures and Extreme flexibility. Easy use on small tubes, vessels, or any place where space is limited. It might do the trick.

Hope it helps