How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[sunilkm153]

dear friends
we all know reflux tower is supossed to be one of the important aspect of our DIY pyrolysis plant but everywhere we use reflux the reactor vessel was vertical stationery vessel
now my question is that how will we add online reflux tower if we had an horizontal rotating reactor vessel (horizontal rotary kiln)
in advance

[wheels]

dear friends
we all know reflux tower is supossed to be one of the important aspect of our DIY pyrolysis plant but everywhere we use reflux the reactor vessel was vertical stationery vessel
now my question is that how will we add online reflux tower if we had an horizontal rotating reactor vessel (horizontal rotary kiln)
in advance

Reflux is just one way of cracking the heavier Fractions. It's used in many of the amature plants because it is easy and simple. A Rotary Kiln is not something most backyard operators would be able to do. You will need to find another means of cracking those heavy fractions without a reflux vessel.
Are you going to be processing Plastic or Tyres.
Do you have a means of ensuring a perfect seal at the Exit pipe?
How do you intend to heat the Kiln Vessel?

[sunilkm153]

Reflux is just one way of cracking the heavier Fractions. It's used in many of the amature plants because it is easy and simple. A Rotary Kiln is not something most backyard operators would be able to do. You will need to find another means of cracking those heavy fractions without a reflux vessel.
Are you going to be processing Plastic or Tyres.
Do you have a means of ensuring a perfect seal at the Exit pipe?
How do you intend to heat the Kiln Vessel?

Exactly right no amature DIY fellow gone for rotary kiln I myself initally using 50 ltr gas cylinder as vertical retort then we scale up the same configuration to 600 ltrs s s vessel having stirrer in it from one of my friends pharma industry
now I am planning to proceed towards 5000 kg / day processing capacity for which I find rotary kiln most suitable
we are going to process waste plastics not tyres
perfect seal ( gland/double mechanical seal ) at inlet and outlet both very well insured also air lock valves are used
To heat reactor/kiln we have a duel mode hot air generator consuming pyrolysis oil/pyrolysis gas
Is there any other simple and easier way to online crack heavier fractions for rotary kiln also

[Beyond Biodiesel]

dear friends
we all know reflux tower is supossed to be one of the important aspect of our DIY pyrolysis plant but everywhere we use reflux the reactor vessel was vertical stationery vessel
now my question is that how will we add online reflux tower if we had an horizontal rotating reactor vessel (horizontal rotary kiln)
in advance

If you examine a modern day petroleum refinery you will see distillation towers. At each fraction there is always something doing refluxing, such as bubble caps, etc.

In my 5-gallon (20L) pyrolysis unit I went horizontal, because it was easier than building and working on a 30 foot (10M) tall tower. There is essentially no reason why fractionation, which requires reflux, needs to be vertical, except for conserving real estate and energy, as heat rises so it can be used in a vertical tower situation, which it cannot be employed in a horizontal configuration.

Exactly right no amature DIY fellow gone for rotary kiln I myself initally using 50 ltr gas cylinder as vertical retort then we scale up the same configuration to 600 ltrs s s vessel having stirrer in it from one of my friends pharma industry
now I am planning to proceed towards 5000 kg / day processing capacity for which I find rotary kiln most suitable
we are going to process waste plastics not tyres
perfect seal ( gland/double mechanical seal ) at inlet and outlet both very well insured also air lock valves are used
To heat reactor/kiln we have a duel mode hot air generator consuming pyrolysis oil/pyrolysis gas
Is there any other simple and easier way to online crack heavier fractions for rotary kiln also

I find your rotary kiln idea novel and fascinating, but fraught with the technical challenge of maintaining a reliable seal in a high temperature environment. Nonetheless, if you can reliably accomplish this, then I still only see value in using a rotating kiln in the pre-melt zone of the plastic prior to injection into the retort. Because, once the plastic hydrocarbons enter the retort they will turn into a vapor, and move through your cracking medium (catalyst) as a vapor, and then enter your fractionation zone as a vapor, where the vapor stream passes through a series of refluxing zones where the fractions are extracted in liquid form, then removed and collected, which is otherwise known as a fractionation tower.

[wheels]

Exactly right no amature DIY fellow gone for rotary kiln I myself initally using 50 ltr gas cylinder as vertical retort then we scale up the same configuration to 600 ltrs s s vessel having stirrer in it from one of my friends pharma industry
now I am planning to proceed towards 5000 kg / day processing capacity for which I find rotary kiln most suitable
we are going to process waste plastics not tyres
perfect seal ( gland/double mechanical seal ) at inlet and outlet both very well insured also air lock valves are used
To heat reactor/kiln we have a duel mode hot air generator consuming pyrolysis oil/pyrolysis gas
Is there any other simple and easier way to online crack heavier fractions for rotary kiln also

BBD is quite correct and as I said earlier, the Reflux is just one way of cracking the heavier Fractions. If you are looking at processing 5000ltrs, then you are into a whole different realm and need to be looking at some very well engineered designs. I find this kind of situation concerning. Several of you on this Forum have gone from small operations to very large commercial scale operations in a single leap, with no real knowledge and no real understanding. If you knew what you were doing, the Reflux situation would not be a question you would be asking here. I don't think many of you are getting it. This can be a very dangerous operation. There have been people killed and entire towns destroyed with these machines failing. So for instance, have you considered what is going to happen with the Retort Vessel by rotating the vessel through the heat? In other words, the vessel is going to be constantly heating and cooling as it passes in and out of the heat. As that been considered and designed for?
What about the exhaust gasses? Processing 5000ltrs mean you will be expelling a lot of Gas to atmosphere. Are you just spewing toxins into the air or are you processing the Gases to expel a clean output?
And then my final question is, what about the Fuels produced. If you don't understand the Reflux process, then you don't understand distilling and I am concerned that you will have no idea about Fuel stabilization and specific weights and testing of fractions and so many other points, that commercial Fuel production s going to require.

[sunilkm153]

you are right about the process I achieve a perfect working seal for my kiln as I operate it continuously for nearly 50 hours processing about 700 kg of waste plastic for my rotary kiln size of diameter 100mm but here I wish to mention one important aspect of my process I don't use rotary kiln as premelting zone i got the plastic fully converted to vapour phase in the kiln itself and then pass the vapours through condensors with different temperature zones to get desired sp.gravity products but the product I get had large amount of carbon / may be uncracked particles in it for which I got the product centrifuged and after centrifuge i found 5-7% sludge in it and now the rest of the fuel is of good quality To aviod this problem of carbon / uncracked particles (also to avoid process of centrifuge) i thought a good online reflux will possibly mininize this problem

[sunilkm153]

BBD is quite correct and as I said earlier, the Reflux is just one way of cracking the heavier Fractions. If you are looking at processing 5000ltrs, then you are into a whole different realm and need to be looking at some very well engineered designs. I find this kind of situation concerning. Several of you on this Forum have gone from small operations to very large commercial scale operations in a single leap, with no real knowledge and no real understanding. If you knew what you were doing, the Reflux situation would not be a question you would be asking here. I don't think many of you are getting it. This can be a very dangerous operation. There have been people killed and entire towns destroyed with these machines failing. So for instance, have you considered what is going to happen with the Retort Vessel by rotating the vessel through the heat? In other words, the vessel is going to be constantly heating and cooling as it passes in and out of the heat. As that been considered and designed for?
What about the exhaust gasses? Processing 5000ltrs mean you will be expelling a lot of Gas to atmosphere. Are you just spewing toxins into the air or are you processing the Gases to expel a clean output?
And then my final question is, what about the Fuels produced. If you don't understand the Reflux process, then you don't understand distilling and I am concerned that you will have no idea about Fuel stabilization and specific weights and testing of fractions and so many other points, that commercial Fuel production s going to require.

dear friend wheelz
I am happy to see your genuine concerns about safety of process as well as peoples . in the same forum BBD also raised question fo safety several times
let me know you that since last three and half years I am working with tyre pyrolysis machine having capacity 10000 kg / day without any major problem here we use naked flame to heat kiln by burning wood/coal under rotary kiln the rotary kiln having diameter of 3000 mm rotating at 4 rpm is to be heated upto 550 degrees
AS your concern thermal expansion of the material is very well calculated before fabrication of kiln secondly exhaust gases are passed through scrubber with caustic solution and then stored in a gas ballon which is used for electricity generation through gas generator and after going through generator a second stage scrubber is also there to scrub exhaust gases from generator
finally if you think that by raising a simple question about reflux I don't have any idea about process you are wrong here you simply misunderstood my question I never asked about working of reflux I simply sought forums opinion about idea of ONLINE REFLUX for rotary kiln
lastly we never use this fuel as transportation fuel here we used this fuel as boiler fuel.

[wheels]

you are right about the process I achieve a perfect working seal for my kiln as I operate it continuously for nearly 50 hours processing about 700 kg of waste plastic for my rotary kiln size of diameter 100mm but here I wish to mention one important aspect of my process I don't use rotary kiln as premelting zone i got the plastic fully converted to vapour phase in the kiln itself and then pass the vapours through condensors with different temperature zones to get desired sp.gravity products but the product I get had large amount of carbon / may be uncracked particles in it for which I got the product centrifuged and after centrifuge i found 5-7% sludge in it and now the rest of the fuel is of good quality To aviod this problem of carbon / uncracked particles (also to avoid process of centrifuge) i thought a good online reflux will possibly mininize this problem

Firstly it is good to hear you have all those aspects of safety and I am also glad to hear you have some experience with the tyre's.

Carbon particles will not be uncracked Fractions. Carbon particles are solid particles of Carbon and can not be cracked. They should be part of the waste left behind after the process. To have them carry through the various stages will mean three possibilities.
You may have too much in the Reactor vessel and the level is overflowing through the system. Plastic and Oil expands a significant amount when heated and this needs to be allowed for. We discussed that vary scenario a page or two back re a possible boil over with Excalibur's oil pyrolysis. It would be worth going back a page and having a read. Which could also create another possible problem with a horizontal drum. It will mean the contents will not be able to be too high or it is going to make it's way through the outlet pipe.
Another possible is a Boil over. You could be getting the Plastic too hot and it is boiling and spitting solids up into the outlet.
And the last possible, the pipes maybe too small in diameter and you have too fast a gas stream which is blowing carbon particles right through. As part of my reflux vessel, I have a cyclone that allows any possible particles to drop out of the gas stream and mix with the Refluxed fractions to be dropped back into the reactor vessel.
The easiest course of action may be to build your own centrifuge filter and filter the Fuel as it exits. This would also allow the removal of particles you can not see. A centrifuge with a diameter of about 100mm spinning at about 6000RPM will remove particles down to about 0.1 micron. You can not see particles that small. But they will cause the Fuel to have a brown colour. Removal would clarify the Fuel to a very clear amber colour.

[Excalibur]

The way I see it is that the principle of reflux will work identically on either retort type. It seems reasonable to assume that the rotary kiln vapor outlet exits from one end at the center axis. The vapor stream outlet should then be inclined vertical and a suitable reflux vessel attached. Control over the subsequent fraction produced is by means of reflux vessel temperature so that heavy fractions are recycled back to the retort by gravity while suitable fractions as well as lighter ones are allowed to proceed downstream.

[rozier56]

Wheels,can you show us a picture of your system??

[piu.iuu]

Hi Spincabby.
Glad to be of help. Would you be willing to talk a bit more about the woodchip tech? That is one of the things I would really wan to try
Jetijs

Hi Jetijs

I do have a few articles on this subject, which may be on you interest.

Let me know at euxhen (@) gmail.com

hope to hear from u soon.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

BBD is quite correct and as I said earlier, the Reflux is just one way of cracking the heavier Fractions. If you are looking at processing 5000ltrs, then you are into a whole different realm and need to be looking at some very well engineered designs. I find this kind of situation concerning. Several of you on this Forum have gone from small operations to very large commercial scale operations in a single leap, with no real knowledge and no real understanding. If you knew what you were doing, the Reflux situation would not be a question you would be asking here. I don't think many of you are getting it. This can be a very dangerous operation. There have been people killed and entire towns destroyed with these machines failing. So for instance, have you considered what is going to happen with the Retort Vessel by rotating the vessel through the heat? In other words, the vessel is going to be constantly heating and cooling as it passes in and out of the heat. As that been considered and designed for?
What about the exhaust gasses? Processing 5000ltrs mean you will be expelling a lot of Gas to atmosphere. Are you just spewing toxins into the air or are you processing the Gases to expel a clean output?
And then my final question is, what about the Fuels produced. If you don't understand the Reflux process, then you don't understand distilling and I am concerned that you will have no idea about Fuel stabilization and specific weights and testing of fractions and so many other points, that commercial Fuel production s going to require.

I completely concur with Wheels. This forum is meant for fabricating small-scale pyrolysis units, which are still dangerous, but at least will not burn town a whole town. Those who are interested in larger scale operations simply must purchase the unit that they need from a qualified petroleum refining engineering company.

[wheels]

Wheels,can you show us a picture of your system??

Go back a few pages.
I am current upgrading to a slightly larger plant with a few additional items and will post new Pics when it is completed. That will be a month or so away yet.

[wheels]

I completely concur with Wheels. This forum is meant for fabricating small-scale pyrolysis units, which are still dangerous, but at least will not burn town a whole town. Those who are interested in larger scale operations simply must purchase the unit that they need from a qualified petroleum refining engineering company.

To add to BBD and give some of you a little heads up to what you are playing with. If you take 60mls of Petrol and vaporize it, you now have close to the same explosive power as an entire stick of Dynamite. Now consider just how much vaporized fuel you have in your Retort, at a temperature of 400DegC and consider just what will happen should oxygen ever get into the system.
I missed the comment sunilkm153 made about the Retort being designed re the welding and heat. You can not design any metal vessel for what they are being put through. Cracks are inevitable, because that is what Steel will do in heat. Regular Inspection/Testing of the welds need to be carried out. Failuer to do so will get you on the local 6 Oclock news after you have just leveled the Town. Unfortunately you may not be around to watch it.

[sunilkm153]

Firstly it is good to hear you have all those aspects of safety and I am also glad to hear you have some experience with the tyre's.

Carbon particles will not be uncracked Fractions. Carbon particles are solid particles of Carbon and can not be cracked. They should be part of the waste left behind after the process. To have them carry through the various stages will mean three possibilities.
You may have too much in the Reactor vessel and the level is overflowing through the system. Plastic and Oil expands a significant amount when heated and this needs to be allowed for. We discussed that vary scenario a page or two back re a possible boil over with Excalibur's oil pyrolysis. It would be worth going back a page and having a read. Which could also create another possible problem with a horizontal drum. It will mean the contents will not be able to be too high or it is going to make it's way through the outlet pipe.
Another possible is a Boil over. You could be getting the Plastic too hot and it is boiling and spitting solids up into the outlet.
And the last possible, the pipes maybe too small in diameter and you have too fast a gas stream which is blowing carbon particles right through. As part of my reflux vessel, I have a cyclone that allows any possible particles to drop out of the gas stream and mix with the Refluxed fractions to be dropped back into the reactor vessel.
The easiest course of action may be to build your own centrifuge filter and filter the Fuel as it exits. This would also allow the removal of particles you can not see. A centrifuge with a diameter of about 100mm spinning at about 6000RPM will remove particles down to about 0.1 micron. You can not see particles that small. But they will cause the Fuel to have a brown colour. Removal would clarify the Fuel to a very clear amber colour.

thank you wheelz

I think the first of the reason that feeding rate may be more was the most probable cause of the problem because temp was precisely controlled through pid controllers and also outlet pipes are also 60%size of that of retort that is 60 mm so the possibility of the first reason may be highest lastly you mentioned I also have a cyclone after kiln ( & here the problem lies I want to put back the heavy fractions seperated by cyclone directly to my rotary kiln presently which is to done manually through inlet feeder ) also i think here also the size of cyclone must be reviewed

The way I see it is that the principle of reflux will work identically on either retort type. It seems reasonable to assume that the rotary kiln vapor outlet exits from one end at the center axis. The vapor stream outlet should then be inclined vertical and a suitable reflux vessel attached. Control over the subsequent fraction produced is by means of reflux vessel temperature so that heavy fractions are recycled back to the retort by gravity while suitable fractions as well as lighter ones are allowed to proceed downstream.

Thanks for the idea an inclined vertical outlet pipe will be an good option but here in my case from one end of centre axis plastics are feeded while through other centre axis vapours are taken out and exactly below this outlet pipe carbon removal screw is placed so if refluxed heavy fractions got back through outlet pipe they get directly over carbon removal screw wetting dry powdery carbon and disturbing the process so please if you suggest any other possible solution .

I completely concur with Wheels. This forum is meant for fabricating small-scale pyrolysis units, which are still dangerous, but at least will not burn town a whole town. Those who are interested in larger scale operations simply must purchase the unit that they need from a qualified petroleum refining engineering company.

Thanks BB once again your concern about safety is reflected I promise you that I give atmost priority to safety provisions for my next plant also I want to tell you that choosing horizontal rotary kiln is the main reason behind it because here I don't have to put all my 5000 kg stuff in the kiln at one time (needing big heating and at the same time creating huge pressure) but gradully adding 200 kgs of plastic per hour for next 24 hours anyhow thanks once again to the forum for keeping on such a nice discussion