How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Excalibur]

Excallibur,
How many runs or hours of operation did you have on your orion plant before the metal failed? I am also using same diesel burner flame directly on the base of my retort. My retort is 6mm Mild Steel and i want to estimate how many runs before i can get worried about changing the retort. i have about 15Hours of heating so far.

Probably about 100 hours at a guess. The retort looks to be OK. It is 8mm wall with 10mm base plate. I plan to cut it open and measure how much erosion there has been. The part that completely collapsed is the flame ducting from the burner. The most affected part of that ducting is where is passes through the 3" -4"vermiculite insulation layer. It appears as though that section of pipe could not lose its' heat so it suffered. The metal looks crystalized.
As mentioned earlier, in the planned rebuild I will replace the refractory with brick. This includes the flame duct from the burner. The retort will get shortened which will move it further away from the flame. Incoming flame will have negotiate its' way through a maze of bricks. The object as said earlier upthread, is to convert the unit to being more like an oven and away from being like a blast furnace.
My burner head can be adjusted on the fly to apply the appropriate amount of heat to suit conditions. There is a dedicated TC with permanent LCD display that monitors flame temperature. I strongly recommended a TC on your flame.

Piet
Yes, this game is a good hobby.
Your fuel with specific gravity of .80 -.81 is very light. It is being cracked more than it needs. Probably the solution will be to reduce the effectiveness of the reflux chamber by increasing the temperature it runs at.
Adding 2 stroke oil to diesel is a known thing to improve lubricity.
It was good thing there wasn't too much damage with the fire.
Those Babbington burners are fun. They use rather a lot of air volume so a decent compressor is required.
Yes, the diesel definitely needs proper filtration. Allowing the fuel to settle will dramatically reduce the load on filters. On my DiyDiesel site you can see my current filtration set up for a few ideas.

BTW, I ran my flash evaporator but it was a disaster. It boiled over and control was too difficult. I needs much better instrumentation and more precise control mechanism on the feed. The silver lining was I learnt the feedstock oil has a very low boiling point so It looks like this is what was causing the problem with Orion retort boil-overs.

[Piet]

It is difficult to predict how many hours the steel will last, but my retort (made by Rozier) lasted about four months and fortunately we were present to put out the fire that started. All materials made of plastic melted with (some damage to the diesel burner) which could fortunately still be used later. If it burns through while you are not there, you can say good bye to everything nearby and mine stands in a shed!
A new one was made, again 4mm, but with a stainless steel barrier to keep the flame away from the metal. This one will last a bit longer, but with all the acidity present, it will go some time or other. The only suitable material is a thick cast iron, so make friends with a foundry.
I have been busy for quite a few months now with little success. The latest issue was the diesel burner's pump that had to be replaced because of the poor quality homemade diesel I used with not enough viscosity. I now add two stroke oil to it. Is that a good idea?
I still have to work out a cheap practical way of cleaning the diesel (with a specific gravity of .80 or .81) and to find a place to test it before I put it into my tractors or cars. So, you are right Vast that there are more people making the machines than people producing diesel, and those making the machines make wild statements about how much diesel you can produce per day.
I am trying to develop a Babington burner at the moment that will work with most types of oil and diesel in order to heat water for instance and later maybe also to generate electricity. Good luck to you all! To me it is a hobby.

[wheels]

Excallibur,

How many runs or hours of operation did you have on your orion plant before the metal failed? I am also using same diesel burner flame directly on the base of my retort. My retort is 6mm Mild Steel and i want to estimate how many runs before i can get worried about changing the retort. i have about 15Hours of heating so far.

regards

The main variable that will determine how fast Steel oxidizes, is the flame in contact with the steel vessel. Excaliburs pipe was directly heated by the flame to a bright red and this kind of heat very quickly oxidizes steels.
When designing the Retort and it's method of heating, it is important not to have the flame directly contacting the retort vessel. A shield that stops the flame from coming in contact with the steel is important. The best method is directing the flame as evenly as possible around the vessel, so you don't get a hot spot. I have welded some fins in a spiral around my Retort that create a path for the heat, so that it is directed around and up the outside walls of the Retort.
If the Steel vessel is heated by the flame aiming simply straight at it to the point of glowing, it will oxidize and you will shorten the vessels life.

[mercedes 308]

Glass bubbler

Vast I'm a bit concerned about that glass bubbler. It looks like a water filter housing. If you have a flashback that will become a grenade, bits of housing and glass everywhere. If you use the expanding design I posted earlier, Preferably made from rubber or plastic. All that will happen is the top will blow off.

[Babataku]

Excallibur

Excallibur,

How many runs or hours of operation did you have on your orion plant before the metal failed? I am also using same diesel burner flame directly on the base of my retort. My retort is 6mm Mild Steel and i want to estimate how many runs before i can get worried about changing the retort. i have about 15Hours of heating so far.

regards

[VAST]

Vast, where in South Africa are you? I am in the Western Cape, kleinebosch@mweb.co.za.
Kind regards,
Piet.

Piet I`m in Bloemfontein

You can contact rozier56, he lives in the cape and already sell these machines commercially, but be warned, to get a license to produce fuel in South Africa is almost impossible. That is why everyone build the machines instead of producing diesel.

Do your homework first on fuel production licenses. You need actually two different licenses, the first to produce, the second to sell wholesale and then the government tells you for what price you can sell. You cannot sell directly to the public. The penalty, a million bucks or a stiff jail sentence. The mafia protect themselves.

[Piet]

Vast, where in South Africa are you? I am in the Western Cape, kleinebosch@mweb.co.za.
Kind regards,
Piet.

[wheels]

But first I will do a pressure test for a day to see if there is any leakage on the system. Despite it being made from gas cylinders, I rather value my life and will like to live a long time afterwards.

I saw that in Nigeria, they even use normal oil drums to do the same, but that is just tooooo risky and many life's are lost because of it.

Yes it is very important that everything is safe, as the potential for a problem is certainly there. Although the time of the greatest danger is at the time of first heating the system. That is when the possibility of oxygen in a quantity sufficient for an explosion is present in the containers. Once the vapor starts flowing, the oxygen is flushed out and the danger is much less. Also, unless there is a major leak, the system has a very slight positive pressure which is enough to keep air out.
However, that does not mean any Plant is now risk free. The Fumes, Vapors and Liquids being produced are seriously bad for your health. No matter what Plastic used, there are still dangers. But if someone is using waste plastic, they may not always know exactly what may have been mixed in. Some plastics can give off very Hazardous and Toxic substances. There can be vapors that can cause long term damage to the likes of your Lungs, Cancer causing chemicals, Acids and Toxins that can cause immediate harm. Like Hydrogen Cyanide.
There is no less danger when processing WMO either.
Please everyone, make sure you wear Gloves that are Chemical proof, wear a Breathing Apparatus(a dust mask is useless) and practice safety at all times. Another area to be extremely cautious of is cleaning the Retort/Reactor after a process has finished. The Black stuff left in the bottom of the Retort, is a concentrated mess of extremely Toxic Wastes and Heavy Metals. The Carbon particles themselves can cause Lung Cancer and also be adsorbed through your Skin. In some Countries, it may be required to have it disposed of as a Toxic Waste. DO NOT go digging it onto the ground, as it can poison the Soil and that can be taken up by Plants and then Poison people eating the plants etc.
The final point is safety from Burns. For me, it is hard to get your head around that fact that these liquids are so hot. You kind of think of just Boiling water, which is hot enough as it is, but depending on the plant, these liquids may easily be 200Deg at least and with my plant, some are in the range of nearly 500DegC. So they won't just scold you, or you won't just get a simple burn from exposed pipe work or containment Vessels. The temperatures are dangerous and will instantly cause serious Burns. Even ones working with lower temperatures, are still working with temperatures above the melting point of several metal types.

[Excalibur]

Vermiculite is expensive here too, I think an import from Australia. When I originally conceived the idea of dry filling the insulation cavity it was with the view that the vermiculite could be recovered and reused. I'd kept the bags and now it's back in them.

Pressure test the heat exchanger by running the water in to the water side, allow to fill then plug the outlet. It should hold normal low pressure house supply water with ease. Dripping from the vapor side would be a fail..

Consider some sort of adjustable flow for the h/e water feed else they can waste a lot. Ultimately aim to use minimum flow to keep the diesel tank at the temperature target.

Pressure test is a good idea on the vapor system. Only a few psi. Apply soapy water with a brush to find tiny leaks.

[VAST]

I`m glad I could be of some help. This is a great forum and you are a very valued member Excalibur, I recon that you are one of the earliest members on this discussion that is still constantly contributing valuable lessons and knowledge.

Perlite is expensive here, so I was also thinking of using vermiculite instead as it is mined in South Africa and should be relatively cheap here.

Found another interesting article by someone who builds ovens, he also recommend ash instead bound by the sodium silicate, that may even be a more inexpensive way to go for me as we use coal extensively here in South Africa and it should not be a problem to get it at cheap cost.

Vermiculite insulation. What is vermiculite, how to use it?

It seems like it can withstand a great amount of heat. I will also like to use it to insulate the other vessels and pipes and because it is pliable to form, relatively easy to mold around bends. Just make sure it is cast in a way that you can break it into two pieces that you can just tighten by some wire or other means around the pipes.

Got all the fittings yesterday for the heat exchanger to connect the water, now I only need to connect the "gas jar" and fill the insulation, cure it , sandblast all the surfaces and give it a nice paintjob (the paint is rated to 700 degrees, don`t know if that will hold on the reactor, but the other parts should not be a problem) and start up the plant for the first time.

But first I will do a pressure test for a day to see if there is any leakage on the system. Despite it being made from gas cylinders, I rather value my life and will like to live a long time afterwards.

I just hope I did a good welding job on the heat exchanger, otherwise I will have to cut that open to repair. What a pain that will be!

I actually wanted to be up and running now already, but I am so limited in the time I can work on this. All you are seeing happened in a weeks time where I work for about 2 hours in the afternoon when I get back home and two days I was off and the sun was tolerable to allow me to work outside. In the meantime all the stores and factories are closed until maybe the 10th this month.

All in all, for this machine I would recon if you can work full day, maybe 3 days and it will be finished.

I saw that in Nigeria, they even use normal oil drums to do the same, but that is just tooooo risky and many life's are lost because of it.

Even though this is old technology and there are more advanced and better ways to do this now, this is still a valid technology that can change peoples life's, as long as we care about our safety first and the safety of others around us.

[Excalibur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQN7EqGMTuo

Good find on the DIY refractory making. I'm thinking of using the technique to convert some of my vermiculite to castable parts for the more difficult areas of my refractory. In my rebuild I'm dry stacking kiln bricks but the adapting of bricks to accommodate inlet and exhaust was proving a puzzle.

[VAST]

Yes the Silicon will melt. Exhaust Cement is better.
What's the rope around the pipe for? It will melt aslo.
The Steel casing around the Retort may need to be insulated as too much heat will escape outside. You want all that heat radiating into the Retort.
Also, paint the retort and the drum with an HT exhaust/Engine paint, or the paint they use on Pot Belly stoves. This will reduce the corrosion from the flame on the steel.
Keep an eye on all the Valves. They all have plastic seals and if they get too got, will leak.
It's really hard to get your head around the fact that the Liquid can be anywhere from 300 to maybe 500dgC. When something starts to fail, you can't just turn it all off with the flick of a switch. You end up standing there watching something melt not being able to do anything about it.
Not a biggy, but I think you have too many distillation vessels. I figure that most of the fractions are going to be cooled enough to condensate in the ver first container. I would look at insulating the first container to allow only heavy fractions to accumulate there and the lighter ones to move on to the next. Even insulating two container and the last water cool perhaps. That will separate even more weights of fuel.

Just for your information as to the insulation. Silica Gel and perlite mixture = insulation.

Correction, my mistake. I`m talking about silicate gel while it is actually sodium silicate or "water glass".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQN7EqGMTuo

Another video about how to make your own silicate sodium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mx1-o1_MWo

[Excalibur]

VAST

Great work. Lots of effort!

A gasket will accommodate some flange irregularity as part of the job it does so it comes down to how out-of-true plus conditions of operation. We aren't running at any pressure to speak of so that helps.
Silicon sealants won't hack the 400°C+ of the reactor very well. I think I saw one brand that was resistant to 370°C but stated "intermittently".
I have some exhaust sealant containing sodium silicate but then I read it is was only rated to 300°C. I ended up not testing it either because I modified all my taper-threaded bungs to flange-washer-seal types. You can't believe how hot a 400°C retort really is. The heat is vicious. Teflon thread tape/ sealer is another one that doesn't work even on the slightly cooler reflux.

How long the 48kg vessel will last is the big question. 3mm wall is on the thin side especially for flame heated reactors. Prolonged overheating of steel will decay the metal. Recently I gathered up with a large magnet, the flakes of mill scale from my failed flame duct and also from the reactor. They weighed at nearly a kilo, yes nearly a kilo of flakes that look like rust without the red color.
OK, so what can you do? On the assumption that your heat source is a burner, I'd say fit one (or more) TC to monitor how much flame heat is being applied. In addition fully understand how to adjust the heat of the burner to suit requirement.

The reflux looks OK. Be prepared to lag it if it doesn't come up to temperature. In fact I think I'd lag it first, then remove lagging progressively if temperature target is exceeded. Realize though that the flange above it and the first right-angle pipe will add to reflux capacity.

[wheels]

Maybe gasket sealer silicone? Or will the temps on the reactor melt that away?

Yes the Silicon will melt. Exhaust Cement is better.
What's the rope around the pipe for? It will melt aslo.
The Steel casing around the Retort may need to be insulated as too much heat will escape outside. You want all that heat radiating into the Retort.
Also, paint the retort and the drum with an HT exhaust/Engine paint, or the paint they use on Pot Belly stoves. This will reduce the corrosion from the flame on the steel.
Keep an eye on all the Valves. They all have plastic seals and if they get too got, will leak.
It's really hard to get your head around the fact that the Liquid can be anywhere from 300 to maybe 500dgC. When something starts to fail, you can't just turn it all off with the flick of a switch. You end up standing there watching something melt not being able to do anything about it.
Not a biggy, but I think you have too many distillation vessels. I figure that most of the fractions are going to be cooled enough to condensate in the ver first container. I would look at insulating the first container to allow only heavy fractions to accumulate there and the lighter ones to move on to the next. Even insulating two container and the last water cool perhaps. That will separate even more weights of fuel.

[VAST]

The complete systems as to date without the mold and the water bubbler. I will install the water bubbler this afternoon and weld close the reflux after installing the grid. Maybe I will even include some photos with the mold covering the machine.

This system is small and easy to build with everyday material that anyone can get anywhere in the world, maybe only the see through water bubbler will be a problem, but the rest is easy to come by.

I don`t know how long the reactor will last as it is made from a 48kg gas cylinder, the walls is not really thick, between 2mm and 3mm thick, I won`t want to run this for a very long time. How long do you think a person can risk using such a thin reactor with it staying save?

The feeding tube that has warped from the heat, instead of sanding it I will just remove it and put on a new lid from a solid peace of steel I will cut with my plasma cutter. It was just the top lid that has warped as I welded on a peace of metal to close the hole in the flange to seal it. The ropes is there currently just as support until all the containers have there own legs welded on.

My Low tech plasma cutter jig for the hole cutting. Made from a piece of wire bend according to the length I need for the hole.


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