How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[kedigen]

hi
oil-fired heating did smoke a lot. I think my system resistance heating. 4.5 m3 reactor. 45 kW of electricity would be enough? reactor of 330 cm height. 127 cm diameter.

[wheels]

Is there anybody out there an idea of what metals are suitable to use in the fire chamber compartment when firing with a oilburner?
The temperature that we are dealing with seems to be in the 400-450*c range.

If you go back a few pages, you will come across a post where I discussed Metals, specifically Stainless Steel types suitable for the purpose.
The thing is, it comes down to cost vs practicality. The metals that will give greater durability are more expensive to buy and more expensive and difficult to work with. So often Mild Steel can be just as suitable, because it is cheap and easy to work with and you simply replace it when it is ready to be replaced. What I did with mine is to fit replaceable shields where Flame is focused onto the Steel and that takes the brunt of the oxidation and can be changed out when it has become worn.
Another Metal that is cheap, is Cast Iron. However, obviously you would have to have it cast for you and thus it is not something easy to work with. But it does make good heat shields and if you can find scrap pieces of Cast Iron, it is well worth using.

[rozier56]

metal request

Is there anybody out there an idea of what metals are suitable to use in the fire chamber compartment when firing with a oilburner?
The temperature that we are dealing with seems to be in the 400-450*c range.

[wheels]

The only thing I can confirm is that its fuel because it burns like crazy and burned some of my hair in my hand LOL.
When i distilled it to check what fractions I had it no longer burned.. Im going to add more condensers as you said.

Very heavy fractions, like Diesel and Oil become much harder to ignite, buit should still burn if you apply enough heat.
All Hydrocarbons float on water. You can not mix them and water. That would be why they burned. If after that, you distilled the liquid and was then left with something that did not Burn and it mixes with water, then that has to be water.
So you have a very light weight fraction that boils off at temperatures bellow 100 Deg, That is not very high for hydrocarbons, although there are one or two that will boil bellow 100. For example, Benzene boils at 86DegC, although I am not sure how you would get Benzene from PP. But there must be a similar weight Fraction present. If you take the output of that pot and chill it to re capture those fractions, you will have those really light weight fractions again.
I am also trying to work out where all the water is coming from. Make sure the Plastic is dry before you put it in the Retort.
So! This would tend to point to a couple of possibilities.
First off, are you absolutely sure you are using PP Plastics??
What is the temperature that you are Pyrolyzing the PP at?
Are you using a Catalyst? and where and what temperature?
Do you have a Reflux vessel? and What temperature does it operate at?

[chacowako]

The only thing I can confirm is that its fuel because it burns like crazy and burned some of my hair in my hand LOL.
When i distilled it to check what fractions I had it no longer burned.. Im going to add more condensers as you said.

[wheels]

No the oil you see in my picture. the cracked oil from the PP plastic.
Also I was using the induction in the middle of the garden with a very long extension cord. i'm not crazy to do this in the house the smell itself is horrible and toxic.
What I do not understand is that after heating/distilling the oil to 80-100c almost all my gasoline fraction evaporated and whats left do not light at all like water maybe my mixture is gasoline and water? but the oil as you see in the picture did not separate with water I left it in the container for 3 days and did not separate maybe gasoline and water blends but diesel and water separate.
Anyway these are just my thoughts and was wondering has anyone experienced this. Although I would completely redo my retort because my aim is diesel not gasoline.

Hmmm, sorry if i am miss understanding. So I assume that you have already pyrolyzed the PP and the 80 to 100degC is the distillation temperature. As you heat the liquid toward the 100Deg, the very light factions, if there are any, will come of first. Benzene boils at 86degC, but I doubt you would have any Benzene from PP. Most of the light fractions have much higher boiling points. In fact the fractions that make up what we call "Petrol" ranges to temperatures as high as 260DegC. So 100deg is not actually high enough.
So the best way to go about this. The first Distillation vessel needs to be heated to about 360DegC. The second Distillation vessel needs to be 260Deg. The liquids that sit in the first vessel will now range from the heaviest fractions up to the fractions that remain liquid at 360Deg. This will be your "Diesel". Lighter fractions will continue to the 260Deg pot and will condense out to give you a range of Hydrocarbons from the 360 to 260Deg boiling points. This range is what we would call "petrol". You can capture all of those fractions if you wish, or you can add a third distillation pot heated to the 80 to 100deg and that will then boil off the very light fractions. But most likely, there will not be any from PP. However, if you have any water present, it is possible that you will produce some Hydrochloric Acid. This has a boiling point of 85Deg, so having the last pot heated to 100Deg, will help to boil away any HCL.
I am really not sure what you have in the Jar of it mixes with Water. If it can mix with water, it is not a Fuel. It would have to be water and it could be acidic.

[chacowako]

What kind of oil? are we talking Wast Motor Oil? 100DegC will do nothing to pyrolyze the Oil. You need Temperatures in excess of 360DegC. The loss you have seen is most likely water, which is very common in WMO and tends to vent off at 100DegC, which is boiling point of water of course. So you tend to see two vapor points. One at around that 100DegC being the water, and the next comes at the 260 to 360DegC which is the Oil.
If you are using induction heating, be very careful. I would thus assume you maybe doing this inside your Home of the Induction cooker top. Firstly, this process can be extremely dangerous if something goes wrong. DO NOT do this inside. Secondly and as has already happened to someone else on this Board, using the Induction cooker at such very high temperatures, can cause damage to the Cooker surface.

No the oil you see in my picture. the cracked oil from the PP plastic.
Also I was using the induction in the middle of the garden with a very long extension cord. i'm not crazy to do this in the house the smell itself is horrible and toxic.
What I do not understand is that after heating/distilling the oil to 80-100c almost all my gasoline fraction evaporated and whats left do not light at all like water maybe my mixture is gasoline and water? but the oil as you see in the picture did not separate with water I left it in the container for 3 days and did not separate maybe gasoline and water blends but diesel and water separate.
Anyway these are just my thoughts and was wondering has anyone experienced this. Although I would completely redo my retort because my aim is diesel not gasoline.

[wheels]

Guys im confused I heated my oil using an induction cooker too 100c and lost 3/4 of my oil?
My remaing oil wont light at all i heated the oil and placed a lighter it wont light is induction heating destroying the flash point? Or are diesel so hard to light?

I also tried placing newspaper to suck the oil did not work?

What kind of oil? are we talking Wast Motor Oil? 100DegC will do nothing to pyrolyze the Oil. You need Temperatures in excess of 360DegC. The loss you have seen is most likely water, which is very common in WMO and tends to vent off at 100DegC, which is boiling point of water of course. So you tend to see two vapor points. One at around that 100DegC being the water, and the next comes at the 260 to 360DegC which is the Oil.
If you are using induction heating, be very careful. I would thus assume you maybe doing this inside your Home of the Induction cooker top. Firstly, this process can be extremely dangerous if something goes wrong. DO NOT do this inside. Secondly and as has already happened to someone else on this Board, using the Induction cooker at such very high temperatures, can cause damage to the Cooker surface.

[rozier56]

Excalibur

Pete,can You Check Out Your Email As I Have Some Info Re Skype!

[chacowako]

Guys im confused I heated my oil using an induction cooker too 100c and lost 3/4 of my oil?
My remaing oil wont light at all i heated the oil and placed a lighter it wont light is induction heating destroying the flash point? Or are diesel so hard to light?

I also tried placing newspaper to suck the oil did not work?

[sunilkm153]

My first try had to stop half way through because of leakage.
this is 100%pp strange why its yellow?
isnt pp black?

welcome to the league of sucessful DIY fellows
your o/p sample looks nice whether you use any catalyst or simple thermal pyrolysis

[wheels]

graphite rope, usually used as seal for wood stoves doors
size of retort can be modified, just give you idea how to do it without flange.

Be very very cautious of Graphite rope or any similar high temp rope or fibre, synthetic or Glass fibre materials. It will leak Gas. The Gas that comes off is Hydrogen and will find it's way through the smallest of gaps. We are talking microscopic here. Any fibre materials will not stop it. Even bolted down tightly, the gaps in the fibres are large enough for hydrogen molecules to pass through. You MUST have a solid seal.

[torak]

what do you mean? your groove is milled all the way to the center?
so your rope goes circles allot of times all the way to the center for a tight fit?

Or just 1 circle and compress?
also how do you compress a female 10mm groove with a 10mm protrude male with the 10mm graphite gasket?

What I understood:
Example
I have a 4 inch outer diameter ring flange male female.
female 20mm deep 10mm milled at 3inch going to 1inch then hole.
male on the 3rd inch i protrude 10mm and 2.5inch to 1inch I fill with a graphite rope 10mm (square) until I reach my desired hole of 1inch?

hi, check out album i post before, hopefully that's give you idea, i think it is same principle as rozier56 described, but this one is welded together from metal pates.

[torak]

Thanks Got me thinking now.. That's a much bigger setup to what I am trying to build.. What is the white material that was between the lid and the cylinder?

graphite rope, usually used as seal for wood stoves doors
size of retort can be modified, just give you idea how to do it without flange.

[wheels]

Thanks for that.. What valve are you referring to?? Should I install a directional valve right after the Reflux and attach a vacuum to that? but then how will I vacuum the rest of the system during operation? I was under the impression that I would install a vacuum at the very end of the system after all the condensers and bubblers etc..?

You are going to need a Valve placed just before the bubbler, or you will suck the water back through everything and into the vacuum pump. If the Bubbler is the terminal end to the plant, then you might get away with a valve right at the end. But realize that the air in the pipe work after the bubbler will be sucked out and so that will cause water to suck through with it.
WMO tends to produce vapors well before the flash point is reached. Those Vapors will displace oxygen in the tank and pipe work. WMO also does not have properties that react with oxygen to create nasties like Dioxin. So a small amount of Oxygen in the tank before it reaches the vaporizing temperature is fairly safe.
This is unlike Plastics which will react in a low oxygen environment and produce Dioxins. Plus many plastics vaporize at close to the Vapors flash point and an oxygen rich environment is asking for trouble.