How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[rozier56]

Thks ,Wheels for info and your reply to question.

[wheels]

Excalibur, can you check your email please.thks.

Just in case you have not heard from Excalibur, he is currently traveling and may or may not get this message of yours, but will be back home in a few days.

[rozier56]

Excalibur, can you check your email please.thks.

[wheels]

i have a system that seems to produce a lot of wax right up to reflux temp of 330*c.Has anybody else had this happen when using plastic raws?What temp does this wax start at and do i need to run at higher temp?

Wax is a hydrocarbon in the Paraffin range and what many Plastics are made from. So when it is vaporized again, the Plastic reverts back to what it was made from and you get Paraffin. In many respects, it means you have a very good process taking place re the melting. But the pyrolysis is just one part of a very complex chain or processes. It is essential to understand the entire process.
So firstly, the plastic is melted to the point where it vaporizes. The Vapors/Gasses are the various Hydrocarbon chains that originally went into making the Plastic. That part is Pyrolysis. Pyro meaning heat and Lysis, meaning to break apart.
These individual chains may need to be broken in to shorter chains. That part of the process is called "cracking', or "fractionating". It is the most complex part of the entire process. You have to know just what chain length is mainly being produced and then adjusting the process to produce the type of chain you mostly want. This part will vary for everyone. There is no fixed Golden rule, because the formation of a Hydrocarbon length is determined by the Type of plastic, the temperature the melt is performed at, the size and shape of the vessel and pipe work etc, which will all alter the time the chain is in the heating zones for. Then there is size and shape of catalyst container, if catalyst is being used at all and what catalyst is being used. So there are just too many variables to say that if if you do a certain thing, you will get a certain result.
So in answer to your question, Wax equals long chain lengths. They have to be broken to produce shorter chain lengths. Just how that is done is by adjusting one or maybe all of the following things like Retort temperature. Using a Catalyst(which will vary on quantity of catalyst used and operating temperature).
And finally, the distillation process. If you have a slightly more complex, but tightly temperature controlled multi pot Distillation process, then you should be able to distill the heavy Hydrocarbons(waxes) in the first pot, the mid range(diesel weight) in the second pot and the very light fractions(petrol weights) in the third.

[rozier56]

waxing

i have a system that seems to produce a lot of wax right up to reflux temp of 330*c.Has anybody else had this happen when using plastic raws?What temp does this wax start at and do i need to run at higher temp?

[rozier56]

gasket problem

my answer for the retort opening gasket is to make a male and female steel ring flange.The female bottom flange is cut 20mm deep with a 10mm round groove machined through center.The male top flange is also 20mm thick with a 10mm vertical groove protruding.All grooves are square.There are 8 threaded bolt holders spread around the plates.The female groove is then filled with graphite 10mm rope for machine gaskets available from Bearing Man.The lid is bolted together and never failed.Cost of the system approx 150 dollars.Built four units like this and no failure when constant opening and closing.

[wheels]

What the output product you get will depend on what the waste is made up from.

Actually to add to that, excalibur and I have been discussing an issue we have both had when running with WMO. We get a varnish or gum that makes the heavier fractions very dark in color and the lighter fractions more Amber. It does not want to filter out. But once in the Vehicle fuel system, it will coat Filters and other metal part in this brown colored resin material. So a need for purifying the Fuel better, needs to be considered. Because WMO is not what I will normally be producing, it has not bee a priority for me to look into. Excalibur has been trying various methods and I am sure he will come up with some kind of cure eventually. But if anyone else has been able to remedy thos problem, without going the expense and difficulty of huge complex Filtration, like clay or ceramic, then please let us know.

[sunilkm153]

Hi guys im stuck at a problem I cant find a way to check the fluid level of my reactor.
Ive checked probes on the internet i can only find rated up to 200c for 450c Im having a hard time I found 1 that can reach 900c but costs $1000 !!! Way over my budget.
any genius got a solution? I would be very grateful
also i read on previous posts that an o2 sensor is used? Ive read on internet I have no idea how it should work.

ultra sonic level sensors are available with many automation companies but it is too risky to get the retort open in middle of process possibility of explosion is there I fairly suggest if you want your process to be continuous you have to opt for horizontal reactor vessel instead of verticle

[wheels]

Thanks for the response guys.. I can't tell you how much of a motivation it is just to get a reply.

Wheels I plan to start off with WMO as I currently have about 12,000L which I can get for FREE monthly from a local transport company who wants to get rid of it. I don't plan to use copper anywhere else in my system only as gaskets, I think I read here or somewhere that copper accelerates the oxidation of the fuel?? so I'm thinking the less I use the better.

Try a run without the catalyst first. WMO does not need a great deal of cracking. Temperature will have a big influence on cracking and it might be best to see what you get first. What the output product you get will depend on what the waste is made up from. As in, has it had fuels thrown in, cleaners/solvents, Gear oils, transmission oils and so on. So not everyones WMO supply will be the same. Also you are likely to find a great deal of water that will settle to the bottom of the drum. It is good to remove as much as possible before you add it to the retort.

[wheels]

Excalibur, I have studied your setup very closely and have started to build my system based around most of your principles and methods using the scraps I can find.
I am wanting to use copper gaskets between every flange through the whole system. I have made all the flanges and lids out of 15mm MS/PLT myself using Oxy and a drill. The only flanges which are factory made are between the retort and reflux. The Retort is made from an old oxy cylinder and the reflux is from an old compressor cylinder. A few questions, does it matter if the reflux is larger in diameter and shorter in length then the retort? (I will be using a catalyst packed reflux same as yours) the length of the pipe from the reflux to the condenser is there a max or min I should be aware of? or does it depend on the gas temp entering the condenser?? My condenser is also bigger, the internal pipes are 40ID x 750 with a water jacket around them, thinking of packing them with glass? I want to incorporate a vacuum into the system for safety would the internals of an air conditioner or vacuum cleaner do? maybe if I fabricate the blades out of gauge sheet to replace the plastic to deal with the heat? Sorry for all the questions but I'd rather not kill myself trying.

WMO is not quite so much of an issue re having to vacuum out the Air. But if you want to be sure, then a cheap air compressor works the best. Just connect the suck side instead of the pressure side. A Vacuum cleaner would not suck hard enough. I am not sure what part you mean re the Air Conditioner. But the Refrigeration pump can be used, although it would be slow. Once again, you need to connect the suction side. Leave a little oil in it, but not too much or it will blow the oil out everywhere.

[wheels]

Wheels you missunderstood me. The temp probe I have no problem with
What im looking for is a way to check fluid level (melted plastic) so i can fill the retort when it is almost empty.

Hmm, not sure how an O2 sensor would work. Can you tell us what the comment about it's use was?
Knowing how much plastic is in the retort is a problem that several of us are trying to find an answer to. The only way I can think of is having the retort sitting on a load sensor and weigh the thing empty and then full and then you have a reference. Although you have to remember that the Carbon is building up in the bottom and slowly increasing it's weight over time, so some calculation is required. Unless you have a means of continuous carbon removal as well.
Just be very careful of adding Plastic in the middle of a melt. You are most likely adding oxygen along with the plastic, into a very hot vessel full of volatile Gas that would just love to mix with oxygen so it can go bang.

[chacowako]

Wheels you missunderstood me. The temp probe I have no problem with
What im looking for is a way to check fluid level (melted plastic) so i can fill the retort when it is almost empty.

[MangiPNG]

I have used copper successfully on my reflux lid, though it only gets to 350C as the target temperature. The gasket is as Wheels says, a narrow strip perhaps 3 or 4mm wide clamps the gasket with 8 x 10mm bolts( I think). It has been repeatedly reused over and over. Sometimes I annealed the copper, othertimes not. It's a good idea to treat the joint like a typical industrial flange, tighten evenly and in stages, perhaps diagonal stepping of the bolts in turn like a car cylinder head.
Better to over-engineer the parts in the hot zones.

Excalibur, I have studied your setup very closely and have started to build my system based around most of your principles and methods using the scraps I can find.
I am wanting to use copper gaskets between every flange through the whole system. I have made all the flanges and lids out of 15mm MS/PLT myself using Oxy and a drill. The only flanges which are factory made are between the retort and reflux. The Retort is made from an old oxy cylinder and the reflux is from an old compressor cylinder. A few questions, does it matter if the reflux is larger in diameter and shorter in length then the retort? (I will be using a catalyst packed reflux same as yours) the length of the pipe from the reflux to the condenser is there a max or min I should be aware of? or does it depend on the gas temp entering the condenser?? My condenser is also bigger, the internal pipes are 40ID x 750 with a water jacket around them, thinking of packing them with glass? I want to incorporate a vacuum into the system for safety would the internals of an air conditioner or vacuum cleaner do? maybe if I fabricate the blades out of gauge sheet to replace the plastic to deal with the heat? Sorry for all the questions but I'd rather not kill myself trying.

[MangiPNG]

Providing you use only PP and PE plastics, copper will be OK. Only the edge is exposed and you will probably notice some corrosion on that edge, but it should not be of any issue. But do not use copper pipe for any of the pipe work. It can block up with copper sulphate and also can act as a Catalyst and some hydrocarbons can be turned into things that you don't want.

Thanks for the response guys.. I can't tell you how much of a motivation it is just to get a reply.

Wheels I plan to start off with WMO as I currently have about 12,000L which I can get for FREE monthly from a local transport company who wants to get rid of it. I don't plan to use copper anywhere else in my system only as gaskets, I think I read here or somewhere that copper accelerates the oxidation of the fuel?? so I'm thinking the less I use the better.

[wheels]

An O2 sensor? are you meaning one that is from a Vehicle Exhaust? I don 't know how accurate something like that would be.
But anyway, the Senor should be a "K" type and they are usually rated for a high temperature of up to 1000 and some as high as 1300 deg. It is the digital readout that often does not go high enough. Have a search for something like one of these. IBEST TCM-SR4
It is best to fit a protective probe sheath made from a length of SST tube. Seal the end going into the retort by welding the end closed. Fit that to the retort to the depth you want. The open end will be outside the Retort of course and you will need to weld the SST tube to the retort to seal it. Then slide the probe into the tube. That will protect the probe from corrosion, but it should pass enough heat across to the probe with close enough accuracy.