How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[jonathan]

retort insulation

can someone help me to do diy insulation? i read beyond biodiesel forum my proplem is about sodium silicate...can someone upload a photo? i serch google but l find many different...thanks in advance

[Excalibur]

Thanks excalibur,
1.how did you measure the vapor rate at retort and the reflux flow.
2.Is your reflux column"fractional" ie;filled with fillers or tube plates.
3.Sent you a email from your you tube site, pls view so i can send you info.
Derek

Practically for us DIY, we can only measure the net production flow. Currently my reflux has broken terracotta/earthenware/brick pieces. I'll be inspecting it shortly.
I have just added a pic of the reflux media to DIYDiesel/reflux page so there is "before and after" pics..

[rozier56]

production rate

Thanks excalibur,
1.how did you measure the vapor rate at retort and the reflux flow.

2.Is your reflux column"fractional" ie;filled with fillers or tube plates.

3.Sent you a email from your you tube site, pls view so i can send you info.
Derek

[Excalibur]

Hi folks, if you have a retort of approx 300kg plastic fill and the reflux temp is held at 380-420*c with a good condenser,what influence will determine the production rate of the diesel?

Equation: if we take the volume of vapor generated by the retort and subtract the reflux influence, the sum is the production rate.

Of the vapor, the aim is not to be too low or too high in retort temperature. Too low will mean less vapor activity while too high risks boil-over. So I suppose the optimum is to be as high as you can with a reasonable margin below the boil-over threshold.

The reflux should be aimed at minimum refuxing to get the desired result. Extreme high reflux temperature will risk fuel waxing or too heavy a product. Extreme low will mean excessive refluxing, more heat energy requirement, too light a product weight and low production rate. So finding the right balance is the key to optimum production speed.

Also, target the heaviest diesel weight that your climate can handle. The system will make a heavier product faster than a lighter one simply because there is less refluxing. For example in summer I make .850 SG diesel while in winter I might drop to .830 ~ .840 SG., depending on how cold the weather.

BTW, am looking to do another run next week to test out some new bits. Am hoping to finally exceed the 20LPH barrier. There's another preheater to fit and yet another attempt at a retort level indicator device.

[rozier56]

production rate

Hi folks, if you have a retort of approx 300kg plastic fill and the reflux temp is held at 380-420*c with a good condenser,what influence will determine the production rate of the diesel?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Dude, this is not a "mines bigger than yours" argument...But anyway, I have no interest, now time, in arguing points. This obviously is not the place for me. I will leave the Deaf to lead the Blind and move on.

It appears that you are making it a "mines bigger than yours" argument. I am just providing factual information as you are attempting to do.

Has any one got any experience with clay/bag filters like the twin canister type from jaxonfiltration.com?
...How do one process it to the right product? Do I break/cut it down to blocks/pieces and heat it to 800 degrees Celsius for activation?
I know this is a lot of questions but hopefully different people can give there experiences or even comment some interesting facts about bleaching.

I have not used clays in any process related to processing hydrocarbons other than zeolites for cracking heavy feed stocks when I did post graduate research at Chevron Research. However, I would expect that the "activation" required for activating zeolites is most probably the same process for activating clays. Essentially the activating process is firing the zeolite to 1200F (650c) in the presence of O2 to burn off any carbon, then keeping it above 212F (100c) to avoid absorbing moisture until the catalyst is used for cracking, or the clay is used for absorbing whatever it is used for absorbing/neutralizing.

[black]

Has any one got any experience with clay/bag filters like the twin canister type from jaxonfiltration.com?
I would like to know more about them for bleaching oil/fuel. I am sure there must be more of you that would like to get oil/fuel beter.
Is it only a filter bag filled with clay granules or powder that gets pumped from one canister to the second with a hydraulic pump or is it a continuous running batch system, that runs for hours or days?
How fine is the powder or granules?
What pressure and speed as per litres per minute? How many cycles hours or days?
Between these 122 pages some one said something about using any type of clay, is this doable?
When going to a quarry I always see these grey clay boulders that look like blue rock, can they be used?
How do one process it to the right product? Do I break/cut it down to blocks/pieces and heat it to 800 degrees Celsius for activation?
I know this is a lot of questions but hopefully different people can give there experiences or even comment some interesting facts about bleaching.

[wheels]

Beyond Biodiesel;257219]While doing post graduate research in Astronomy and optical sciences at the University of Arizona at Tucson I spent several years designing and building research equipment.


Over all we have to keep in mind people who make fuel out of garbage are not likely to make a superior fuel product. We are in most cases just trying to save some money, and we do not mind replacing our vehicle more frequently. And, it would be unwise to run garbage-based fuels in a new or expensive engine.

Dude, this is not a "mines bigger than yours" argument. The cutting fluid description is purely trying to show that viscosity has nothing to do with wear protection.
Many here may indeed just be trying to save money, although I don't see the point. if you end up wrecking a valuable engine. However, in this particular post instance, the Poster is asking a question that suggests to me that he is worried about the possible damage to Pump and motor.
But anyway, I have no interest, now time, in arguing points. This obviously is not the place for me. I will leave the Deaf to lead the Blind and move on.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

No that is absolutely not correct. I can give you one very plain example as a for instance. Cutting Oils. You can have a cutting oil Viscosity ranging from very thin through to heavy oil, through to a thick grease. Yet they all allow a tool to cut. And yet I could use a thin lubricant and have the tool not cut so well. I can also take an Oil and add Kerosene to it and have a form of cutting oil.

While doing post graduate research in Astronomy and optical sciences at the University of Arizona at Tucson I spent several years designing and building research equipment, which put me into the machine shop, so I have spent many hours running machining equipment, so I know for a fact that cutting oils are not used for lubricity, but for cooling the machine tool. Generally in machining the the more viscous the oil the more cooling it offers; however, there are other factors in choosing a cutting oil, for instance band saw blade is typically cooled with wax; whereas, an end mill cutter is cooled with 10-40 motor oil.

Thanks for the useful links on lubricity. You might find this link on that subject useful, as I have been keeping abreast of research on waste oil based fuels for about 9 years Lubricity of a diesle fuel blend

Over all we have to keep in mind people who make fuel out of garbage are not likely to make a superior fuel product. We are in most cases just trying to save some money, and we do not mind replacing our vehicle more frequently. And, it would be unwise to run garbage-based fuels in a new or expensive engine.

[wheels]

=Beyond Biodiesel;257179]While it is true that other substances, such as: Sulfur, graphite, molybdenum, have been added to fuels and/or lubricants for increasing lubricity; nonetheless lubricity is generally a function of specific gravity, thus the reason why the petroleum industry has used the API gravity standard, which is based upon specific gravity.

No that is absolutely not correct. I can give you one very plain example as a for instance. Cutting Oils. You can have a cutting oil Viscosity ranging from very thin through to heavy oil, through to a thick grease. Yet they all allow a tool to cut. And yet I could use a thin lubricant and have the tool not cut so well. I can also take an Oil and add Kerosene to it and have a form of cutting oil.
Lubricity is a result of Elasto Polymer strength and that comes from Polar compounds and Aromatics in the Fuel. The problem in the Commercial Industry is that many of those compounds are removed when Sulphur is removed and Diesel needs to be "fortified"with an additive to bring it back to the industry standard.
I can not speak of the WMO side, but most likely that has enough compounds that do not get removed during Distillation, to act as an excellent lubricator. But for the ones that make Fuel from Plastic, that could be a serious issue and the only way to know for sure, is to have the Fuel it tested.
Lubricity Testing of Diesel Fuels
http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-pe...s.pdf?sfvrsn=4

[Beyond Biodiesel]

While it is true that other substances, such as: Sulfur, graphite, molybdenum, have been added to fuels and/or lubricants for increasing lubricity; nonetheless lubricity is generally a function of specific gravity, thus the reason why the petroleum industry has used the API gravity standard, which is based upon specific gravity.

Thus I have been blending waste oils with solvents to make diesel fuels for 7 years. The central principle behind blending depends upon the concept that specific gravity is closely related to viscosity and lubricity; which result in combustion efficiency. We blenders essentially blend solvents with waste oils to produce an end product that approximates the specific gravity of D2 diesel fuel.

Below are some useful links for the specific gravity and viscosity of common solvents and oils

Specific Gravity And Viscosity Of Liquids

Viscosity & Specific Gravity - Force Engineered Products

Specific Gravity - Liquids

Peanut oil 0.92sg
Automotive crankcase oils SAE-5W/10W/20W/30W/40W/50W 0.88-0.94sg
Diesel Fuel Oil 2D/3D/4D/5D 0.81 - 0.96sg
Kerosene 0.78-0.82sg
Jet fuel 0.82sg
Acetone CH3COCH3 0.792sg
Gasoline a 0.74sg

There are; however, other factors, such as flash point, cetane/octane ratings that effect combustion; therefore, we blenders find that, while gasoline blended at 50% with common waste oils, such as WMO or WVO, results in a fuel blend with a specific gravity of about .85sg, we nonetheless find that gasoline at about 20-30% in a waste oil blend results in proper combustion with little coke remainder. We also find little to no engine and IP wear in such a blend, because its specific gravity is actually higher than that of diesel fuel.

[wheels]

When it comes to petroleum distillates, the petroleum industry has used specific gravity to determine lubricity for well over a century, because the lubricity of a petroleum distillate is a function of its specific gravity. Therefore one only need to measure the specific gravity of your resulting distillate and maintain an end product that is roughly .850 to reasonably approximate diesel fuel from various cracked hydrocarbons sources.

Actually that's not quite the full story. The specific weight is not what give a fluid it's lubricity or "anti-wear". In fact Lucus, the leading manufacturer of Diesel Injector Pumps makes this statement,
The lubrication of the Fuel is not directly provided by the Viscosity of the Fuel, but by other components in the Fuel which prevent wear on contacting metal surfaces".
When Sulphur was removed from Diesel, the process also removed the properties that created the Fuels lubrication and additives had to be introduced to the fuel to improve it's anti-wear. Another issue in Cold climate countries is the No1 and No2 Diesel Fuels where the Winter Fuel has a high content of Kerosene. Kero is a poor lubricator and in fact can actually be used to break down the anti-wear properties of lubricating oils. Often Zinc is used as a lubricant, but not as solid Zinc of course. So that is not really something available and easy to do for us amatures. However Biofuel has been seen as an excellent anti-wear fuel and for Sulphur Free Fuels, the addition of just 1 to 2% of Biofuel can make a substantial improvement to anti-wear. Soybean has been tested as having the best anti-wear properties of all Bio-fuels, being high in concentration of Methyl Easter.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi FOLKS,
How would one measure the detergent/lubrication value of your diesel product.This seems to be a very important necessity in the finished product!
Any bright ideas?

When it comes to petroleum distillates, the petroleum industry has used specific gravity to determine lubricity for well over a century, because the lubricity of a petroleum distillate is a function of its specific gravity. Therefore one only need to measure the specific gravity of your resulting distillate and maintain an end product that is roughly .850 to reasonably approximate diesel fuel from various cracked hydrocarbons sources.

[jonathan]

retort insulation

thanks all as i say in older posts in malta is difficult to find insulation..even prumice and exhaust insulation is not that cheap but i will order from ebay...in my experiment i try soffits fire proof and it works well also..

[Excalibur]

Hi guys it’s been 5-6 days reading but I finally worked through it all and what a lot I learned! There is so much experience and help that I have decided to start a wmo test plant.
Excalibur when you say you tweak your fuel do you use pump diesel or petrol to get the viscosity were you want it or am I misunderstanding?

Wow! 5 -6days, that's a marathon read. Actually, I read through twice. So much more made sense the second time around. Time will tell how much you have picked up. I think it's well recognized that the subject is not super easy as it might appear and that proper effort needs to be put in to get a good understanding.

The fuel specific gravity is tweaked by using petrol or clean waste hydraulic oil, depending on whether I need to add lighter or heavier. The reason that adding diesel doesn't worked out well is that to reach the target SG, 100% diesel would need to added! To put it another way, heavier or lighter fuel needs to be added to move the SG significantly or practically.

More notes of the last run.
Diesel fuel used in the firing: 9 liters. The rest of the heat source was retort generated gases.

thanks excalibur...yesterday l was thinking about insulation and i become with the idea of using exhaust insulation.. what about this insulation someone test it?

I picked up some used exhaust wrap insulation from a junk yard and have/are using it on various parts of the Orion plant. Currently it wraps the burner exhaust pipe leading away from the retort. Ideally the exhaust needs to be up to minimum temperature in order to have good draw.
Looking at wrap specifications, I notice there was quite a difference in temperature ratings. Also there was reports of cheap grades becoming brittle with use. The cheapest source I found was via Ebay from China. I did not think it was very cost effective.
Jonathan, if you want cheap insulation, how about using pumice?