How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Babataku]

Thanks for the quick reply,
reflux went upto 300 C

Dippy,

I think you need to tweak your heating system so that you get more power out of it. maybe more insulation if you have heat losses, or simply you have a small burner for a large tank. then you might need to change and put in a bigger burner.

rgds

[dippy909]

Thanks for the quick reply,
reflux went upto 300 C

[Babataku]

Insufficient heat

I have been having trials with my new 200 liter unit (will post pictures soon).

Have been having problems with fuel output and unburnt Hydrocarbons.

(Feedstock mostly Hdpe/LDPE)
Reflux was increased to 4 feet with a series of baffles and catalyst (red Clay).

Fuel out put wasfeedstock was around 100kg
First Condensor: Duel was dark brow/Yellow Clear 20 liters, SG was 0.85
Second condensor (After water cooling) out put was dark brown/yellow clear 9 liters SG was 0.75. I thought this was good as petrol, put it in one of my cars and the engine was missing badly.

Could this be due to pre ignition? too low Octane? kindly help me clarify the problem.

Also the process took ages 2 hours to heat upto 250 C but peaked at 380C.(after 4 hours)
The Gas slowed down after 6 hours and temperature at the water Condensor inlet reduced considerbly, so I thought no vapour flowing so switched the process off.
When i opened the retort i found nearly 30 kg of unburnt yellowy waxy Hydrocarbons, was expecting black Char.
Could somebody clarify why this unburnt?
Can it be due to too low a retort temperature, can the Reflux now be Too big?
Its puzzling me

HI there,

1. 380deg cel is not sufficient. Increase Temp to 400 - 420 deg.
2. what was your temp reading for the reflux?

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi folks, please note this is a picture of my finished plant.Note that we are using lpg gas as our heat source.The retort is a 220kg capacity plant going through a retort system into a triple tree condenser,product collected in first tank,gas then collected and pushed through attached water bubbler and returned to retort for burn-off.

Hi rozier56, thanks for the photo. Your retort looks very professional, but your condenser looks light to me.

My question remains at what temps are you burning at and at what point are your measurements taken?I wish to maximise my system.

Cracking temp is 425c. I have condensers at 300c, 200c, 100c , ambient, and 0c. I measure all the temperature at all of those points along the stream from retort to the last condenser to make sure the vapor stream is responding to my condensers.

I have been having trials with my new 200 liter unit (will post pictures soon).

Have been having problems with fuel output and unburnt Hydrocarbons.

(Feedstock mostly Hdpe/LDPE)
Reflux was increased to 4 feet with a series of baffles and catalyst (red Clay).

Fuel out put wasfeedstock was around 100kg
First Condensor: Duel was dark brow/Yellow Clear 20 liters, SG was 0.85

This is diesel fuel.

Second condensor (After water cooling) out put was dark brown/yellow clear 9 liters SG was 0.75. I thought this was good as petrol, put it in one of my cars and the engine was missing badly. Could this be due to pre ignition? too low Octane? kindly help me clarify the problem.

That is because it is sg of kerosene, not gasoline

Also the process took ages 2 hours to heat upto 250 C but peaked at 380C.(after 4 hours)
The Gas slowed down after 6 hours and temperature at the water Condensor inlet reduced considerbly, so I thought no vapour flowing so switched the process off.
When i opened the retort i found nearly 30 kg of unburnt yellowy waxy Hydrocarbons, was expecting black Char.
Could somebody clarify why this unburnt?
Can it be due to too low a retort temperature, can the Reflux now be Too big?
Its puzzling me

It takes hours to complete a cracking run, and you did not get to cracking temperature. Cracking temperature is 425c.

[dippy909]

Unburnt Hydrocarbons

I have been having trials with my new 200 liter unit (will post pictures soon).

Have been having problems with fuel output and unburnt Hydrocarbons.

(Feedstock mostly Hdpe/LDPE)
Reflux was increased to 4 feet with a series of baffles and catalyst (red Clay).

Fuel out put wasfeedstock was around 100kg
First Condensor: Duel was dark brow/Yellow Clear 20 liters, SG was 0.85
Second condensor (After water cooling) out put was dark brown/yellow clear 9 liters SG was 0.75. I thought this was good as petrol, put it in one of my cars and the engine was missing badly.

Could this be due to pre ignition? too low Octane? kindly help me clarify the problem.

Also the process took ages 2 hours to heat upto 250 C but peaked at 380C.(after 4 hours)
The Gas slowed down after 6 hours and temperature at the water Condensor inlet reduced considerbly, so I thought no vapour flowing so switched the process off.
When i opened the retort i found nearly 30 kg of unburnt yellowy waxy Hydrocarbons, was expecting black Char.
Could somebody clarify why this unburnt?
Can it be due to too low a retort temperature, can the Reflux now be Too big?
Its puzzling me

[rozier56]

Hi folks, please note this is a picture of my finished plant.Note that we are using lpg gas as our heat source.The retort is a 220kg capacity plant going through a retort system into a triple tree condenser,product collected in first tank,gas then collected and pushed through attached water bubbler and returned to retort for burn-off.My question remains at what temps are you burning at and at what point are your measurements taken?I wish to maximise my system. diesel plant 004.jpg

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Thx for the advice again BB. I was wondering what to do with it, but I am planning on doing this for the purposes of recycling the copper and was looking for a practical use for the plastic, this now looks like I may be able to do all 3, separate the plastic from the metal, make a fuel either a gas fuel to be burned right away for electricity or made to a liquid later for fuel, and do something safe with the bromine, I think I'm too far from a major source of computer component manufacturers to make much money off of it but it would be good to do both in principle and for the environment and knowing that more of it will be trapped in the retort rather than in the finished fuel or off gasses is good to hear.

It might be that the Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) is not going to be a huge amount, so you could conceivably store it up in some kind of container until you have enough to make it worth while for a brominide plastics manufacturer to purchase.

Another angle is, if enough people here recycle brominide plastics into fuel, then it could be a useful positive media for the brominide plastics manufacturer to create a venue for recycling Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2).

I look forward to monitoring your progress.

[Babataku]

With my last run, I used either diesel or non-condensable gases, but not both at the same time. When running on diesel, I temporaily store the gases in a gasjar. Flame-outs can be and were a problem with earlier iterations but the turk burner head has some steel plates inside which glow red hot. Indeed the turk housing and feedpipe often are red hot too. This red hot steel creates a natural ignition for the gas and I had the gas burning for a couple of hours continuous. The diesel reservoir target was 120*C , downstream a gasoline trap followed by a (unheated) bubbler. It was a good amount of usable gas however I discovered that I 'cracked the product too much' and the diesel was a bit light. So next run I'll be using a higher reflux temp so may not get the sheer volume amount of non-condensables. We'll have to wait and see...

Yes, if there is a flame-out, there can be a loud bang as the gas suddenly ignites. It is a bit "hair raising" and it did blow the forced draft fan off the inlet more than once. When the flame has to be reduced to curb retort temps, there is much more of a chance of flame-out.

Later mods, I thought I'd use a LPG gas appliance method of initial ignition. They use a thermocouple to sense the presence of flame plus a simple electronic spark ignitor. Look at gas fired water heaters, central heating units, etc.

Many Thanks. I will see if i can get one of those. Its a shame to waste all that heat and since my new outfit will be of a bigger size it means the flare will also need to be huge and burning all that excess will produce a big flame.

will keep you update once im done

[curlyrocks]

After more thought, curlyrocks, I think you are onto something. Since bromine scavenges lead, and PC board recycling will have traces of lead on the PCBs, then bromine in the pyrolized PCBs will scavenge the traces of lead and form Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2). And, since lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) has a melting point of 703.4°F (373°C), and a boiling point of 1,681°F (916°C), then Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) will be left behind preferentially in the retort, thus the ash and coke in the retort will have fairly high concentrations of Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2). All the PC board recycler has to do is develop a relationship with a brominide plastics manufacturer to sell the Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) to, which might be more valuable to the brominide plastics manufacturer than diesel fuel.

Thx for the advice again BB. I was wondering what to do with it, but I am planning on doing this for the purposes of recycling the copper and was looking for a practical use for the plastic, this now looks like I may be able to do all 3, separate the plastic from the metal, make a fuel either a gas fuel to be burned right away for electricity or made to a liquid later for fuel, and do something safe with the bromine, I think I'm too far from a major source of computer component manufacturers to make much money off of it but it would be good to do both in principle and for the environment and knowing that more of it will be trapped in the retort rather than in the finished fuel or off gasses is good to hear.

[Excalibur]

With my last run, I used either diesel or non-condensable gases, but not both at the same time. When running on diesel, I temporaily store the gases in a gasjar. Flame-outs can be and were a problem with earlier iterations but the turk burner head has some steel plates inside which glow red hot. Indeed the turk housing and feedpipe often are red hot too. This red hot steel creates a natural ignition for the gas and I had the gas burning for a couple of hours continuous. The diesel reservoir target was 120*C , downstream a gasoline trap followed by a (unheated) bubbler. It was a good amount of usable gas however I discovered that I 'cracked the product too much' and the diesel was a bit light. So next run I'll be using a higher reflux temp so may not get the sheer volume amount of non-condensables. We'll have to wait and see...

Yes, if there is a flame-out, there can be a loud bang as the gas suddenly ignites. It is a bit "hair raising" and it did blow the forced draft fan off the inlet more than once. When the flame has to be reduced to curb retort temps, there is much more of a chance of flame-out.

Later mods, I thought I'd use a LPG gas appliance method of initial ignition. They use a thermocouple to sense the presence of flame plus a simple electronic spark ignitor. Look at gas fired water heaters, central heating units, etc.

[Babataku]

Uncondensed Gases

Hi All

I am busy completing my new processing plant of 250Ltr Capacity per batch. It will be fired by a Diesel Burner. I have a question though, i need some advice:

1. I want to channel back the uncondensed gases to the combustion chamber to burn them off and get some heat benefit there. My concern is the diesel burner will cycle on & off to maintain the temp, if the diesel burner cycles OFF and the flame from the uncondensed gases goes out, all those gases will build up in the chamber and when the burner cycles ON, there is risk of serious explosion. What are the chances the Flame will go out? i know excalibur is using a diesel burner as well and is burning the excess gases, how have you gone around this? Maybe a Pilot Flame?

I really need some pointers here. My last outfit was electricity powered and i would just flare off the excess gasses.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

After more thought, curlyrocks, I think you are onto something. Since bromine scavenges lead, and PC board recycling will have traces of lead on the PCBs, then bromine in the pyrolized PCBs will scavenge the traces of lead and form Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2). And, since lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) has a melting point of 703.4°F (373°C), and a boiling point of 1,681°F (916°C), then Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) will be left behind preferentially in the retort, thus the ash and coke in the retort will have fairly high concentrations of Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2). All the PC board recycler has to do is develop a relationship with a brominide plastics manufacturer to sell the Lead(II) bromide (PbBr2) to, which might be more valuable to the brominide plastics manufacturer than diesel fuel.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Thx for the info. It has helped tremendously in deciding what I need to do. I am no longer planning on condensing the gas for liquid use at a latter time but am now more interested in using the gas directly to power a generator, which will provide heat to my system and later my home.

Seeing the info about how it was used as an anti-knocking agent in engines was very interesting. What I'm thinking right now is that I can put PCB's (Printed Circuit boards, not the chemical PCB's) into a reactor with other cleaner sources of plastic like old bottles will dilute the amount of bromine but it will still be present which may help reduce engine knocking. As much as a fire retardant may lower the overall energy value of a fuel, the ability to let the fuel burn slower is very good for internal combustion engines.

Also I'm thinking that any lead left on the PCB's from soder may also bind with the bromine which again will reduce engine knocking.

But the thing is that the Bromine is not good for the environment. There probably won't be anything too poisonous made from it, at least not in any major amounts, but it is a major cause of the depleting O3 layer.

It occurred to me after posting my response to you, that the brominated plastics industry might be really interested in someone pyrolysing brominated plastics and selling them some fraction of it for reuse in making brominated plastics.

Thank You,

For giving suggestions

1) I will insulate reactor with 4” insulation
2) Ok I will remove that pipe.
3) Clean-out should be at top or bottom? Can I fix loader at top and Clean-out At Bottom.?

That is a good question, syed722. Certainly a flange at the top big enough to put a cleaning tool in would help; and possibly another flange at the bottom to push the coke out.

A simpler way to decoke a cracking retort is once the volatiles have been evaporated from the retort, then the retort can be taken up to 1200F (650c), then air, or O2 is bleed in slowly. Oxygen will burn the coke to ash, and the burning of the coke will sustain the heat in the retort at 1200F (650c) until all of the coke is burned off, then the retort is allowed to cool, then it can be pressurized to 1 atmosphere, if your retort can handle the pressure, then a large valve at the bottom is opened, whoosh goes the ash out of the retort. That is how we did it at Chevron Research.

4) I will change Feeder to Screw Feeder.
5) I want to heat source with wood and charcoal. Can I used gas which is coming from Bubbler to heat Source is it possible (to reduce wood and charcoal)?

In that case, then you could burn the coke from your previous run to fire the next run.

Yes, you can direct the gasses from your bubbler to a burner under your retort (see Excalibur's comment).

6) I will fix Reflux in between Condensate and Bubbler.
7) I want to use Cyclone to collect ash and dust. And with the help of pipe I will remove ASH and DUST.

We at Chevron Research did this on continuous process cat cracking units.

8) I want to used Synthetic Gas which coming out from Bubbler to heat up Reactor.
9) In some web I have seen that there is no Condensation process so, I bypass it straight to bubbler.
10) Ok

Yes, the more primitive pyrolysis units dump the condensate right into the bubbler. It works fine on a desktop model, but not for a commercial use.

[Babataku]

Please Read and Understand first

Thanks for all

I want to install 1000 lts/day plant.

I need Help, Can anyone give me drawing of the plant along with dimensions.

turnplasticwasteintodieselfuel11_zpscea091cb.jpg Photo by syed722 | Photobucket

Hi Syed

Its very clear that you have not read the whole thread and you do not fully understand how the whole process goes. I strongly recommend that you read the and FULLY understand the information here, its for your own good and safety. Yes the process sounds simple in theory and might be relatively easy to implement BUT is also VERY VERY DANGEROUS. Please be Careful, 1000Ltr per Day system is huge and i am sure they are not many people on this thread who have built or attempted such a system although they have years of experience with their pilot system

My Advice is:

1. Read the Thread in Full or at least the 1st 80pages or so.
2. Start building a small prototype maybe 10 - 20Ltr batch. Once you understand and build confidence you can scale it up. At least if something goes wrong on a small system, the risk is also smaller!
3. Lastly Think of Safety First! As it is i am worried you might get into trouble.

1 Dont mean to discourage you but i am trying to help you.

[markonah]

The process is really simple, it is similar to how alcohol is made. If you heat plastic waste in non oxygen environment, it will melt, but will not burn. After it has melted, it will start to boil and evaporate, you just need to put those vapors through a cooling pipe and when cooled the vapors will condense to a liquid and some of the vapors with shorter hydrocarbon lengths will remain as a gas. The exit of the cooling pipe is then going through a bubbler containing water to capture the last liquid forms of fuel and leave only gas that is then burned. If the cooling of the cooling tube is sufficient, there will be no fuel in the bubbler, but if not, the water will capture all the remaining fuel that will float above the water and can be poured off the water. On the bottom of the cooling tube is a steel reservoir that collects all the liquid and it has a release valve on the bottom so that the liquid fuel can be poured out