How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Jetijs]

Hello Jetijs,

Thank you for your so many replies to others as well as myself.

As I was studying the short movie, I noticed the condensing side was slightly modified from the still photos at the beginning of the thread. Did adding three separate chambers allow for the diesel to separate from the gasoline? Were the products similar in all three vessels? Would possibly just insulating the first condenser chamber allow enough retained heat to condense the diesel yet continue to vaporize the gas to a non-insulated condenser?

I'll be calling our "big" city to find recycled plastic tomorrow. Thank you loads for your contributions.

Andrew

Hi Andrew, yes, we modified the condensers putting three together in hope to searate diesel from gasoline, but the condensers were not heated and it did not work. Might be that only insulating the first condenser will do the trick, but it would not be reliabe as the temperatures need to be kept constant.

To separate the different fuels we need fractional distillation.

If we use the fuel to power a diesel generator, could we use the hot water in the cooling system as a method to keep the first separator at 90 degrees? Would this be hot enough to fraction off the major component in gasoline?

This needs to be tested

Helo Jetijs,

On your set up, what is the btu amount that is being exhausted into the air? I was trying to figure out how many btu's I would need to supplement in additional heating. I thought perhaps if I place a 10,000 btu heater to start the process and then as it progresses I would have the additional torch to make up the difference necessary to heat the reactor. I thought to just place enough fuel in the heater to run for the 4 hours or the appropriate amount of time necessary to finish the batch.

How do you do the end to make your torch?

Many thanks,

Andrew

I have no way of measureing the BTU's. The torch is nade of a simple 10mm diameter copper pipe with a steel or copper mesh attached to the birning end. The gas needs to go through the mesh, but no flames can go back through the mesh, because the burn rate is very slow.

Do the molecules of the fuel oil break down every time it is boiled in the reactor?

I don't think that there is an additional mollecule breaking if the fuels are boiled again, as long as there is only the boiling temperature of the fuel and nothing higher. Boiling just separates the fuels, like alcohol is separated from water at 80 degrees which is the boiling point of alcohol

Further research into Gasoline production suggests that the major component can be fractioned off at 95c+: however this will be a fuel that is prone to pre-ignition (Dieseling) in engines. So if this was used in a normal gasoline engine you would have to alter the timing of the spark and may experience a change in power output.

A diesel engine can run on almost any oil although some will be better than others.

Cracking PE will give mainly paraffins (Kerosene is a paraffin). A diesel engine will run on this when it is warmed. The paraffin wax can be separated out by cooling and straining though it is not absolutely required. (meting point is 60c, boiling point is 370C)

If putting the paraffins back into the reactor breaks down the molecules further then more petroleum products will result and some sort of fractioning will become more important and viable.

Large diesels run on heated bunker oils with little problem.

Smaller diesels have been run on cooking oils without any cracking although the power is lower.

Maybe the best compromise is a two stage cracking process with three fractioning vessels.

That is the product of the first vessel, held at a temperature of 275c be fed back into the reactor, the second vessel is held at 100c to produce kerosene and the third at room temperature will collect petroleum distillates in the gasoline region.

I hope I got all these figures right hehe, it came from wikipedia. I’m sure someone in the petroleum industry could give us better info.

Thanks for this info Yes PE will give mostly paraffin which is still great for using in your diesel burned, you only need to heat it a bit. If this paraffin is put through the process again, about half of it will become clear liquid fuel and other half will be a bit denser paraffin that will now melt at higher temperatures. Another time through the process will make almost all contents of the reactor into liquid fuel, but the remaining paraffin will now be just as candle wax, will burn the same and smell the same. So you can also make your own candles

[dutchdivco]

Clarification

So, when the process is complete, ALL I recover from the heating chamber, (the propane tank in your model) is ash. All the fuel is recovered from the condensing tanks, correct? Deisel from the first, warmed tank, gasoline from the second, and the water bubbler, which also puts out a small amount of flamable gas, which can be discharged into the intake of an ICE.Is that right?

[bugler]

Sorry to ask the same several times.

How do the coils go from the inside of the white ring to the external plastic box? Where is the hole or holes?

I think we have more or less all the information to make a prototype but as Jetijs is going to do an improved device which uses the diesel to make the heating it makes sense to wait for that improved prototype? What do you guys think?

[Jetijs]

So, when the process is complete, ALL I recover from the heating chamber, (the propane tank in your model) is ash. All the fuel is recovered from the condensing tanks, correct? Deisel from the first, warmed tank, gasoline from the second, and the water bubbler, which also puts out a small amount of flamable gas, which can be discharged into the intake of an ICE.Is that right?

Correct Except the leftover material in the reactor is not ash, but charcoal that can be compressed into briquettes and burned later, or used in some other way.

[snowinidaho]

A question on plastic types.

Good day to you Jetijs,

I called various plastic sellers in my "big" city to find who recycles the stuff. So far I find no one who shreds plastic here. Of course I can by new plastic in pellets but this added to my confusion as one company stocks over 200 types. I asked for a polypropylene or polyethylene plastic with only pure hydrogen and carbon. He did not know what fits that bill. Sadly, at this point I don't know either. He said he would call his supplier on the east coast and get back to me tomorrow.

The big city waste collectors pick up type 2 plastic, they have it listed as (high density polyethylene - commonly used for milk, cider and water jugs, as well as detergent, fabric softener and bleach). Would this by a "good" type of plastic but just need to be ran twice because of the wax?

Thank you kindly,

Andrew

[Jetijs]

Sorry to ask the same several times.

How do the coils go from the inside of the white ring to the external plastic box? Where is the hole or holes?

I think we have more or less all the information to make a prototype but as Jetijs is going to do an improved device which uses the diesel to make the heating it makes sense to wait for that improved prototype? What do you guys think?

Have a look at this picture:


There you can see a vertical rectangular shaped hole in the barrel, through which the coil wires come out. There are also holes in the brick at that same location, so the wires go through the holes in the bricks, and then through the big rectangular hole in the metal barrel. They have glass fiber sleeves on to insulate them electrically in case they touch the edges of the rectangular hole. The hole is then covered with a thin metal sheet bent in half circle and riveted to the barrel, the wires are pulled out on the upper side and the remaining space is stuffed with glass fiber insulation. Hope this helps

[Jetijs]

Good day to you Jetijs,

I called various plastic sellers in my "big" city to find who recycles the stuff. So far I find no one who shreds plastic here. Of course I can by new plastic in pellets but this added to my confusion as one company stocks over 200 types. I asked for a polypropylene or polyethylene plastic with only pure hydrogen and carbon. He did not know what fits that bill. Sadly, at this point I don't know either. He said he would call his supplier on the east coast and get back to me tomorrow.

The big city waste collectors pick up type 2 plastic, they have it listed as (high density polyethylene - commonly used for milk, cider and water jugs, as well as detergent, fabric softener and bleach). Would this by a "good" type of plastic but just need to be ran twice because of the wax?

Thank you kindly,

Andrew

Hi Andrew
If you could get a list of those plastic pellet types, I think we could find out what they are made out of and if they are usable for this purpose. What were the prices of the pellets? Aren't they too expensive to be a viable source for making diesel? High density polyethylene (HDPE) works good, and the paraffin is still a good fuel, it just needs a heated fuel tank for the fuel to be used in the ordinary way I am not sure, but I think there are some cheap catalyst materials that you can put in along with HDPE which will help to crack the fuel down more thus solving the paraffin problem. Will see what I can find out.

[snowinidaho]

Other fuel options?

Good day Jetijs,

For a thousand dollars a ton I can buy some pellets from one recycling company, but then I have to drive 250 miles to get it. Granted, these are quality pellets they recycle. Apparently I do not live in a region that has the less expensive product. Living in north Idaho I do have access to wood shavings. I can get trailer loads of cedar shavings (telephone pole scraps) for just the labor in my back. Is something like this still viable straight as it comes? Would I need a hotter temperature to make this work? What if I filled the reactor with the wood shavings and then filled the rest with used motor oil, would I then be able to make this work? Is the temperature lower for motor oil? If I used the cedar shavings would I need to separate the bark from the splinters and only use one or the other. I realize you may not be able to answer these questions in full confidence but any gut feelings you have will be helpful.

Thank you loads,

Andrew

[Jetijs]

Hi Andrew
I don't know about biomass yet, some experiments need to be done in this area, but we will be able to do that only in spring, when it is warmer. As far as I know, if you will fill the container with woor shavings, you will gave a gasifier, that will produce lots of burnable gas and, some alcohols and bio oil. But I don't know about the quantities or how practical that would be. Experiments will show

[Aaron]

biomass

Andrew,

If you have unlimited supply of wood chips - gasify them to run a generator,
use the heat to heat water and/or air and when you have the charred
biomass, use that to put into growing soil (biochar) to increase plant
growth.

I personally wouldn't use the charcoal from plastic for a soil additive but
the biomass method has been proven out for quite a while.

You can get oil and gas from the wood chips but that is optional - a
good quality gasifier stove will reburn just about everything anyway.

You can see more on biochar in the Agriculture forum here and check out
Robert Flanagan's info.

[Aaron]

biomass

Andrew,

If you have unlimited supply of wood chips - gasify them to run a generator,
use the heat to heat water and/or air and when you have the charred
biomass, use that to put into growing soil (biochar) to increase plant
growth.

I personally wouldn't use the charcoal from plastic for a soil additive but
the biomass method has been proven out for quite a while.

You can get oil and gas from the wood chips but that is optional - a
good quality gasifier stove will reburn just about everything anyway.

You can see more on biochar in the Agriculture forum here and check out
Robert Flanagan's info.

If I can find plastic cheap enough here, I'd use Jetijs' method for turning
plastic to diesel. I'm in Spokane.

[snowinidaho]

Hello Jetijs and Aaron,

Thank you for your kind responses. Since I own a diesel generator and my only vehicle runs on diesel I have been drawn to want to make diesel. The gasifier is something I would need to research to learn. I do not yet know how to do this.

Aaron, Spokane was the "big" city near me that I had been searching. I found large plants in Yakima, Tacoma, Portland area, etc. Spokane is big and surely there could be many people grinding on a small scale; I hope you can find something. What I found is that local companies bale their plastic and ship it elsewhere. To buy and or make equipment to shred plastic bought locally is another option; I was just trying to keep things simple. I will keep trying.

Thank you both graciously,

Andrew

[dutchdivco]

shredded plastic and tank filling

Was wondering, and since you have seen/handled the shredded plastic; Could it be put into the tank, using vacuum? i.e a 3" gate valve at the top of the tank. Another at the bottom of the tank, with a screen above it. Hook a shop-vac to the bottom valve, open valve and turn on shop-vac. Hook a flexible hose, (like a vacuum cleaner or pool cleaner hose).Open top` valve, and push hose down into a 'tote' or barrel of the shredded plastic.
The bottom valve and shop vac could also be used to recover the charcoal ash afterwards, if I removed the screen from the bottom valve.Possible?

[Jetijs]

Was wondering, and since you have seen/handled the shredded plastic; Could it be put into the tank, using vacuum? i.e a 3" gate valve at the top of the tank. Another at the bottom of the tank, with a screen above it. Hook a shop-vac to the bottom valve, open valve and turn on shop-vac. Hook a flexible hose, (like a vacuum cleaner or pool cleaner hose).Open top` valve, and push hose down into a 'tote' or barrel of the shredded plastic.
The bottom valve and shop vac could also be used to recover the charcoal ash afterwards, if I removed the screen from the bottom valve.Possible?

I guess it can be done, shredded plastic is lightweight and the pellet size is small.

[bandido]

Is it possible to use pressed plastic (not shreded)?