How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[dutchdivco]

Thanks, but

all I did was summarise my understanding of whats in this thread.
Not sure what your referring to.If you mean whats left in the reactor vessel, jetsis makes it clear in an earlier post;charcoal which will need to be scraped off of the inside of the vessel, and can be pressed into brickets, and used or sold.
This is something which will need to be taken into account, when designing the vessel; making it easy to get access, to do this cleaning/removing of the charcoal.
Not sure what would happen if you DIDN'T clean out this charcoal after each run; I suppose it would just build up in a progressively thicker 'crust'.
Anyway, this frustrates my original idea;-( a tank with no door; would put the plastic in using a shop-vac, with a screen over the opening.Another opening on the tank would have a hose, that i could shove down into my container of plastic, effectively vacuuming the shredded plastic into the tank.
Was thinking I could use a gas water heater tank, and feed exhaust from an ICE, (infernal combustion engine) up the center 'tube' or chimney, to melt the plastic.Originally was thinking of using the exhaust from my diesel step-van. Now I'm re-thinking it, and considering using the exhaust from a gasoline generator.That way I have a use for the gasoline product, and can save the diesel for my truck.Still haven't figured out a practical, easy way to make a square or rectangular door, though. I'm now thinking the hot water tank would be laying horizontal.Exhaust from the gen-set would be wrapped with exhaust wrap to insulate, and would feed into the center 'tube' of the H2O heater.By insulating the tank, I'm fairly confident that would give me enough heat to melt/vaporise the plastic. Just can't figure out how to make the door!;-( Jim

[Shamus]

Why not make a lid on the bottom to match the one on the top? Might not be as convenient as a door, but it would get the job done.

[dutchdivco]

Not sure I follow

"Why not make a lid on the bottom to match the one on the top? Might not be as convenient as a door, but it would get the job done."
What 'lid on the top"?
I'm talking about a gas water heater; Take the outer 'shell' and insulation off, to work on it, although it may be modified and replaced, later, to insulate the tank.
What you have is a tank 4'-5' long, 2'-2 1/2' in diameter. It has a 'chimney', or pipe running up the center of it, which carries the heat from the (original) gas burner.So, the tank itself is like a stretched donut.This center pipe is sealed to the tank, at each end;i.e. no mixing of what is in this pipe, with what is in the tank; it just transmits heat thru the sides of the pipe, to what is in the tank.
Also has several threaded openings into the tank; 2 on the 'top'; one to allow cold water in, one to allow hot water out. Also has one low on the side, to enable draining of the tank, (as a water heater).
In my use as a 'processor', for the plastic, I would be laying it down,i.e. turning it 90 degrees.Feeding exhaust gasses from a gen-set in the center pipe of chimney, and out the other end.Can use either the 'drain' opening, or 1 of the (formerly) top openings to pipe the vapor out, to condenser and seperation tanks, etc.
So, need a door in what WAS the side, now the top, of the tank, so I can put the plastic in, and clean out the charcoal afterwords.And this door needs to be "airtight". I'm figuring this door or hatch would be 1 1/2' wide, by say 3'-3 1/2' long.
I really like the idea of using a water heater, cause its made to handle the heat, and (moderate pressure) its already made, and I like the idea of heating from the inside out.
Just need to figure out how to make this door or hatch so it will seal.
If the fact that the (now) 'top' of the tank is curved, and the door would be. as well, is a problem, I could cut a hole in the top, and build up a box, so as to give me a flat rectangular opening to fit the door to.
Or, I could give up the idea, regretfully, of using a water heater. Just build a metal box, say 4' long, 2'x2' (wide and high). Cut a 2" diameter hole in each end, and weld a pipe to be the 'heater'. Still need to figure out how to put a hatch or door in the top, to enable me to put the plastic in, and to be able to clean the charcoal out.I'm sure at some point, in making boilers or something, someone has encountered this challenge before, and figured out a way to make a rectangular door/hatch, that can seal to hold gasses under pressure.
BTW, sorry I can't do graphics or photos with my computer. its old and feeble, somewhat like its owner.;-) Jim

[wrtner]

all I did was summarise my understanding of whats in this thread.

...and a very good job you did. The technical writing field need people
like you. Maybe you should write the manual. It might be an earner.

Does anyone know what sort of pressures to expect during the 4 hour
baking period? Is Jet's vessel a bit over designed? Would one of those
vessels used for commercial olives for restaurents (3 foot high, 18 inch
diameter, mild steel or SS) be sufficient?

[dutchdivco]

Thanks, but no thanks

"and a very good job you did. The technical writing field need people
like you. Maybe you should write the manual. It might be an earner."

Thanks, wtrner,but it took me a # of years to accept my early 'forced' retirement, (do to medical issues) and now that I HAVE accepted it, not looking to change.And, not looking to 'earn'.Used to be tired, NOW I'm "Re-tired."

Does anyone know what sort of pressures to expect during the 4 hour
baking period? Is Jet's vessel a bit over designed? Would one of those
vessels used for commercial olives for restaurents (3 foot high, 18 inch
diameter, mild steel or SS) be sufficient?

Not sure of the containers your talking about, as its been many years sice I worked in a restaurant, and I don't think they had olives. I believe jetsis said its low pressure. One would have to build a system, and put a pressure guage on it to know exactly.Logic tells me its not a lot of pressure. I should think such a container might be sufficient, if you could find a way to seal the lid.

Seems to me you can think of this like a steam boiler; If you heat it up, and only pipe the gas (steam) to a holding tank, the pressure is going to build and build. Until something blows, unless you have a pressure relief valve.
As jetsis describes his system, he is ultimately venting the flamable gas (propane/butane?) to the aptnosphere, although he does talk about using this flamable vapor in some way.

On the other hand, I'm a firm believer in overbuilding, especially when we're talking about flamable gases, under pressure and with heat.

What I'm planning, right now, for the 'second stage'.
I've got the hot exhaust from the gen-set, coming out of the processor, running horizontal, (parralel to the ground). I run it out a foot or 2 from the processor, then turn it 90 degrees, and run it up through the cieling of my structure, so as to avoid carbon monoxide problems. Will come back to this.
Got a pipe, coming from my processor, carrying a vapor, (I use the term 'vapor' instead of 'gas', to avoid confusion with the 'gasoline' type product) which I run through a still type copper coil, to condense a liquid from the vapor.Back to this, in a minute.
Now, they have large sized tanks, that are use for welding; about 5' tall, 10" in diameter. Thick walled, so they are heavy, even when empty. I BELIEVE they are certified, for so many years, and then have to be discarded.Can't be used for high pressure gases, but should be fine for my purposes, and their CHEAP (or free).
Turn them upside down, so the flat bottom becomes the top, and the conical top with the threaded opening for a valve is now the bottom.Drill 2 holes in the flat top.
Tank #1; Tap threads in both holes.1 recieves the pipe coming from the copper coil condenser.Its carrying a combination of a condensed liquid, comprised of both 'Diesel" and 'Gasoline', and a flamable vapor (Butane/propane type of 'gas').Mount this tank up against the vertical exhaust pipe, carrying the gen-set exhaust out the cieling.Figuring the heat will be enough to re-vaporise the gasoline component, while leaving the diesel in tank #1, which can be drawn off from bottom thru valve.I can probably adjust this temp. by adding/taking away insulation.
Second hole in tank is tapped. Pipe carries away now vaporised 'gasoline', and butane/propane vapor. To tank #2
Tank #2 is same as #1, except not heated at all by gen-set exhaust.Therefore, 'gasoline' should condense into liquid in this tank, and vapor is carried off to tank #3, the 'bubbler.Draw off 'gasoline' thru bottom valve.
Tank #3 is different; Pipe runs most of the way down into tank, is cut at angle on end, and is welded to hole drilled in bottom of tank.Vapor from tank #2 feeds into this. Tank is say,...1/4 full of H2o, so vapor has to bubble up through it, seperating out any remaining 'gasoline', which can be drawn off through valve at bottom of tank. Other hole in top of tank is threaded, and has remaining vapor, (propane/butane type flammable gas).Either vent to aptnosphere, (bad) feed to gen-set intake, or compress to storage tank. Anyway, thats my thinking so far, although projects always change as they go along.
I like the welding tanks cause there more than strong enough to handle the pressure, thick enough to be able to tap the holes with threads, and cheap.Also, the funnel shape on the bottom where the valve is should make it easy to draw off the liquid, especially for the bubbler.Thinking I'll have a clear piece of pipe, right after the valve, so I can see whats gas and whats water, on that one.
My ultimate goal is for a 'mobile' lifestyle, wife and I living in a 8'x36' 1950's era trailer I've got.Moving around every 6 mos. or so.So, thinking of building this whole rig on a small trailer. Gen-set could be used to charge batteries at nite, or during cloudy days.(Solar panels on trailer roof).
Was thinking of running end product flamable vapor, (which I've been calling propane/butane) firstly into a holding tank.Tank would have a pressure switch on it, so that when pressure got to a certain point it would turn on a compressor, which would compress gas into a more substantial holding tank.Need to compress to fairly high pressures, in order to store an appreciable amount.So, I was thinking of using an 'oxygen concentrator' adapted to the purpose. Saw 1 taken apart once; its a series of smaller and smaller compressors.Product of first compressor is fed into second, smaller compressor.Product of second is fed into third, etc.Its how they are able to compress air to high enough pressures, to get 'pure' oxygen from it. Have seen used ones listed on Craigslist, for reasonable prices. Have a discarded carbon fiber LPG tank that could handle several thousand lbs. pressure, would use O2 'concentrator' to compress into this. Then, could use this gas for cooking and whatever else. Anyway, thats my thinking.As you may have noticed, I am into recycling, and adapting discarded items to my purposes, recycling, etc. Perhaps that part of why this project is so attractive to me.
And, as someone posted earlier, I like the idea much more than the whole Biodiesel/WVO thing.Storing shredded plastic, that I buy for cheap at a recycling plant, rather than trying to collect/store used veg oil.Very attractive! Jim

[Savvypro]

...and a very good job you did. The technical writing field need people
like you. Maybe you should write the manual. It might be an earner.

Does anyone know what sort of pressures to expect during the 4 hour
baking period? Is Jet's vessel a bit over designed? Would one of those
vessels used for commercial olives for restaurents (3 foot high, 18 inch
diameter, mild steel or SS) be sufficient?

Jetijs stated in a previous post that the pressure isn't high, the main issue is not allowing oxygen into the chamber. Once the lid is on and the heating elements are turned on, the expanding gases expel the oxygen and the process begins.

[Phairn]

Other sources

Absolutely incredible machine. The energy derived from this source is almost endless and will be incorporated into my currant projects.

Have you done anything with shredded CD/DVD's to recover that energy?

[Tinkerbill]

Forgot to quote Jetijs's message talking about waste oil burner for heating larger batches but this info is for anyone wanting to use waste oils as heat source for batch processing larger loads.
Hi, this is Will, I just joined this forum today specifically for your "plastic to oil" topic. Wanted to let you know that you can get a waste oil burner kit from Craig Kempner's website and support for getting it going for a whole lot less money than buying a turn-key waste oil burner. I met Craig on Yahoo group "altfuelfurnace" numerous years ago. Straight-up guy who puts out a first-rate kit! This is for a siphon-nozzle burner, just like the expensive guys sell. ckBurners - info & parts for WVO/WMO burners; reduce foreign oil dependence and carbon footprint - A Bravenet.com Hosted Site
Looking forward to learning and experimenting more on this plastic-to-oil topic. Alt-energy is one of my hot buttons!

[everwiser]

What we need now is someone to fit this idea to a diesel truck. Use the exhaust heat for the main supply of heat for the reaction and then use the separated diesel as it's made while you drive. You could theoretically drive across the country on garbage alone.

[wrtner]

Absolutely incredible machine. The energy derived from this source is almost endless and will be incorporated into my currant projects.

Have you done anything with shredded CD/DVD's to recover that energy?

I doubt that you would need to shred them.

What about car or truck tyres? That would be a coup. (There will
be steel stuff left over).

[dutchdivco]

Unit on Diesel truck

Everwiser; That was my idea, originally. I have a Diesel step van.Was thinking just as you describe, building the processor on/in the back of my truck, and using the exhaust from the engine, as a heat source.
In this scenarion, the (former) gas water heater tanks, (turned into a processor) would be vertical, and the exhaust would route up the center, and out the roof. Still might try for that eventually, but have decided, for me, to first try making a working unit, and then I'll look at putting it in the back of the truck.Traveling accross country, using trash for fuel; thats real close to my goal.;-) Jim

[r&dsolutions]

Hi guys,
Just found and joined this forum. Massive respect to Jet and all the others for the development and sharing all this info. Going to build a working model and try plastics and wmo conversion and see what happens. Very interested in diesel production. As I am in the motor industry have lots of test vehicles to play with. Just got to source some flanges from scrap for the lid to weld onto an old propane cylinder (empty and purged of course!). Been making bio-diesel for about 18 months now but with price hike in UK waste veg oil is becoming scarce or too expensive. My questions are these. I am proposing to heat the vessel with a babington burner running wmo. Any ideas on how to control the temp between 350 and 400C? Was thinking to run 2 condensers in series so i can separate the diesel and gasoline in one hit and then into water bubbler for excess and gas. My dilema is this. Gases leave the heated vessel at between 350 and 400C and are condensed into the first container to be kept at 100C. I was going to build a water cooled condenser but any suggestions how to control this container temp at 100c. No point in overcooling and then having to re-apply heat as waste of energy. I may have to resort to heating elements similar to Jet's boiler design for better control but wanted to stay away from AC electric as it is really expensive. Will temp probes in thermopockets accurately measure vapour temps at the top of the vessels? Any help greatly received and appreciated.

Russ

[Cherryman]

Everwiser; That was my idea, originally. I have a Diesel step van.Was thinking just as you describe, building the processor on/in the back of my truck, and using the exhaust from the engine, as a heat source.
In this scenarion, the (former) gas water heater tanks, (turned into a processor) would be vertical, and the exhaust would route up the center, and out the roof. Still might try for that eventually, but have decided, for me, to first try making a working unit, and then I'll look at putting it in the back of the truck.Traveling accross country, using trash for fuel; thats real close to my goal.;-) Jim

When you described your idea with using the heat of the exhaust, it reminded me a little of the GEET System, especially the "bubbler" part. Fill the bubbler with plastic and make sure it gets hot enough.

Well, anyway, you might want to look at it for some background info.

[MaturitySpring]

Hey, I need some questions to be answered regarding plastic conversion back to biofuel, mind helping? Helps would be appreciated, thanks!

I have read the previous comments that only pure hydrocarbon can be recycled back into fuel, is this method eco-friendly? Since it is melted in an anaerobic condition, does it release any toxic gaseous into the atmosphere?

Do you think that in the long term, this method of conversion may become one new alternate renewal energy?

Once again, helps would be appreciated, thank you sincerity.

[avro539]

Hi MaturitySpring..I think you are confused what bio fuel is ...it needs chemicals mixed with it to process it ...biofuel can very dangerous to prepare....the way this is cracked from PP would be very very low and not likely to cause any danger in its preparation...there will be alcohol residual from the condencer...but you will exhaust this with a burn pipe....what is left over in the heating still is ash and could be pressed into briketts and used in a wood stove ......Doug