How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[congnghiah4]

How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

Dear ALL!
According to my thinking!
On the forum we are sharing this great information.
But I see each person develop their own conditions and capabilities of each
This leads to lack of consistency. This time is the best time to consolidate all.
what we did and regulations to avoid losing a lot of time designing and making. By doing this we encounter unnecessary mistakes
How do we think about this idea?

BEST REGARDS,
cong nghia

[extraloud]

imakebiodiesel

i have been thinking about this - right now i have a similar set up to what you have described - i am still experimenting with temperatures - i am thinking that the heavy "reflux material" that is condensing out at a large range of temperatures from 150C up higher than 200C - so even if the cat is kept at 220C there might be some condensing in this area ? is this thinking wrong ? but there more likely be more at the lower 150C

i am thinking that a sol could be to direct the condensed material to drip down the sides of the vessel around the outside of the cat and not rain down on top of the catalyst. have you found a sol to this ?

Using one vessel for both catalyst and reflux is certainly a compromise for the reasons you have given. First the ideal temp for the catalyst is 220C and for reflux 150C. To over come this I have attached a band heater to the bottom of the vessel to maintain the correct catalyst temperature. I have fitted a water cooling coil to the outside of the top of the vessel to keep the exit temperature at 150C. This has worked quite well.
There remains the problem of liquid flowing downward over the catalyst, preventing the gas contacting the surface of the catalyst. I cant see a solution to this problem without having separate catalyst and reflux vessels and a separate return for the condensed liquid.

[fibuslitero]

To Extraolud

Hi Extraloud:
What you say is very interesting as always.
I think it would be helpful if you could draw the setup (current setup and your ideal setup with different vessels for catalyst and reflux) and upload it explaining the problems you mentioned.
Maybe a solution could be found with everybodyŽs help imho.
Thank you.

i have been thinking about this - right now i have a similar set up to what you have described - i am still experimenting with temperatures - i am thinking that the heavy "reflux material" that is condensing out at a large range of temperatures from 150C up higher than 200C - so even if the cat is kept at 220C there might be some condensing in this area ? is this thinking wrong ? but there more likely be more at the lower 150C

i am thinking that a sol could be to direct the condensed material to drip down the sides of the vessel around the outside of the cat and not rain down on top of the catalyst. have you found a sol to this ?

[fibuslitero]

To cong nghia

Hi Congnghia:
If I understand what you are trying to say I think you are right in some way but you have to think we are from very different countries, very very different means, not much money....
I also collaborate in a music forum and sometimes a song is made with everybodyŽs contribution just using the internet and without any personal contact (seems strange but it works) and could be interesting to design an ideal setup using our experiences with what we are trying to do here.
I know it is not easy at all but who knows....
Thanks Congnghia

Dear ALL!
According to my thinking!
On the forum we are sharing this great information.
But I see each person develop their own conditions and capabilities of each
This leads to lack of consistency. This time is the best time to consolidate all.
what we did and regulations to avoid losing a lot of time designing and making. By doing this we encounter unnecessary mistakes
How do we think about this idea?

BEST REGARDS,
cong nghia

[imakebiodiesel]

This might be a solution to both problems.
The first vessel above the reactor is the catalyst vessel, it has a band heater to make sure the temp does not fall below 220C. The vapours then move up into the reflux column which is full of stainless steel rings rings or similar material and has a cooling coil to make sure the temp is no more than 150C. Any condensed liquid will flow down to the u bend and then flow back into the reactor for recracking.



Cong nghia, I think its too soon to make a standard approach to these problems. Lots of ideas, some good ,some not so good, are needed at this stage.

[otpadnoulje]

If you will control reflux temperature, it should be over 300 c.

[imakebiodiesel]

I would accept that the figure of 150C may be too low but 300C is far too high. Much of the literature concerned with plastic cracking would support 220-250C as the ideal temperature for clay based catalytic action while 250 -320 works better for metal catalysts. If the Head temp of the reflux temperate was maintained at 300C almost all of the gases would pass through to the condensers.
I did a test with 100% PE and allowed the the head temp to rise to 200C and got a very firm wax product.

[newdar]

Stoichiometry and mass conservation law

Hi all, Great forum! Special thanks to jetits!
While I didn't start yet any experiment concerning this thread,I'd like to draw attention on some simple issues:stoichiometry and mass conservation.
I apologize to those that these issues seem trivial.
For those unfamiliar with the concepts:
"In any chemical reaction the total mass of reactants will equal the total mass of products" (there is no net mass gain or loss).
This remark may be somewhat useful when trying to estimate the quantities of the resulted charcoal,tar,soot,carbon deposit or whatever by-products.
newdar

[otpadnoulje]

At 250 c and low is condensing temperature of diesel. If you return diesel back to reactor you will destroy disel molecules . Why? You will get more uncondesable gases. It is not goal. We need to break the molecules heavier than diesel. The condensing temperature is over 350c.

[imakebiodiesel]

Hello Newdar, welcome and thanks for your comments. Am I right in assuming that if I know the weight of ash left in my reactor and the weight of liquid in my condensers and subtract these from the original weight of waste plastic, that will be the amount of gas produced, assuming no losses through leaks etc.

I cant argue with your figures about diesel, they are correct. but I also know that if I allow the reflux temperature to go that high while cracking PE, all of the gasses would flow through in one pass and I would get a wax rather than a liquid.

In any case Im cracking at 380c and catalysing at 220-250C so I would have to reheat the gases before passing them through the reflux column.

When we refer to the products of our process as diesel, kerosene and gasoline they are not identical to the commercial products of those names. As Jetijs pointed out they have completely different specific gravities, they have different viscosities and certainly have a very different smell. We cant assume they have identical properties to commercial products.

[newdar]

Hello imakebiodiesel.Your reasoning is right!
regards,
newdar

[fibuslitero]

To imakebiodiesel

Hi Imakebiodiesel:
Thanks for your picture.
This seems right and I thought to include the same in my setup but we have to avoid the possible direct flow from the reactor to the reflux chamber imho.I thought about a one way butterlfy valve but I donŽt know if the reflux will be strong enough to reach the reactor through the butterlfy valve.

I think we are trying to imitate the point described in this video at 3:30

video - YouTube

They use some kind of pump but I admit I have no idea about how much powerful it must be or what kind of suction regulator must be used...

Any idea friends?

This might be a solution to both problems.
The first vessel above the reactor is the catalyst vessel, it has a band heater to make sure the temp does not fall below 220C. The vapours then move up into the reflux column which is full of stainless steel rings rings or similar material and has a cooling coil to make sure the temp is no more than 150C. Any condensed liquid will flow down to the u bend and then flow back into the reactor for recracking.



Cong nghia, I think its too soon to make a standard approach to these problems. Lots of ideas, some good ,some not so good, are needed at this stage.

[imakebiodiesel]

If the u bend was deeper than shown in the picture and was filled with regular diesel before the first use of the reactor it should prevent any flow directly through the reflux column.
Any kind of valve or pump is likely to malfunction in such a harsh hot environment.

[dushkriv]

Clearing daut of this process

SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH

hey bro u r genius ur process demo video really help me a lot to understant the process work. i have some daut plz help me on it.

what type of plastic can be used in this process

1) The main reacter should contain Temp 250 C or more
2) while heating we need to mix any catyis to start the process
3) what is the output u mean in 1 kg plastic hw much fuel get generated


help me 2 undersatnd this process more deeply

[fibuslitero]

Ok, IŽll try asap to combine this method you drew with my setup.
Would it be crazy then sending it to the bottom of the reactor to assure completely recracking of the heavier fractions?.
IŽll try later to upload a picture.

If the u bend was deeper than shown in the picture and was filled with regular diesel before the first use of the reactor it should prevent any flow directly through the reflux column.
Any kind of valve or pump is likely to malfunction in such a harsh hot environment.