How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[blackchisel97]

Thank you Vtech, for your valued ideas. I am determined to lick this problem before we have another major shock to the world oil supply, which could be soon. There is a 1000 lbs used baler for sale, not too far from my home. If I can pick it up for cheap, this will be the cat's meow. I hope to eventually size my reactor to the bales.

Sounds like you have a plan
I could use even small scale reactor atm. There is -22C (only outside for now, thanks God) and I have enough wood to heat my place for maybe couple days. I have oil furnace which could work just perfect but empty tank. Fuels will not drop, only go up and any pretext will suffice. We could get alot of independence by having own, even small source of energy not being controlled from the outside. I was looking at Lister motors and love the sound. For people living in rural areas this is great opportunity.

V

[Alec]

Reactor Lid

Hi All

I am currently looking for some material for this project,

i am concerned about the V-Grove that Jetjis talks about
can somebody explain more about this grove and how to make it.

is the v grove just a metal to metal contact with no gasket in between
or is there some sort of gasket between the V-Grove

please help.

Jimmyx

I am using a 100mm at the bottom drain plug, and 160mm at the top of my reactor (4 + 6in) pipe (niple) with welded socket top and it work ok. There are some pics of it on this forum.

[tony steinke]

Hi Alec, are you saying that simple threads, and nothing more, is making an airtight seal ? Also, do you recall what page your pictures are on ?

[Alec]

Hi Alec, are you saying that simple threads, and nothing more, is making an airtight seal ?

Yes. I use threaded pipe everywhere. It is easy to make changes.

[tony steinke]

Yes. I use threaded pipe everywhere. It is easy to make changes.

So just to be clear, you are not using any kind of thread sealant on the reactor lid threads ?

[jimmyx1000]

Seperating of the Different Liquids From Reactor

Regarding this post that talks about
3 distinct layers, then you have 3 different liquids.
post 1089-page37(previous page by dutchdivco)


can somebody confirm this is correct, after the fuel comes out the reactor
and once the fuel cools down , will the different layers of fuel eg
diesel, gasoline, etc be visible as different layers.

thankyou

jimmyx10000

[Alec]

So just to be clear, you are not using any kind of thread sealant on the reactor lid threads ?

That's right. Sometimes on the Condenser joints a very light liquid seeps through if its lose. I don't know what it is but I think its a 5 or 6 chain fuel, it evaporate quickly.

[dutchdivco]

Jimmy

Regarding this post that talks about
3 distinct layers, then you have 3 different liquids.
post 1089-page37(previous page by dutchdivco)


can somebody confirm this is correct, after the fuel comes out the reactor
and once the fuel cools down , will the different layers of fuel eg
diesel, gasoline, etc be visible as different layers.

thankyou

jimmyx10000

Wanting to answer your question, clarify and make sure you aren't misunderstanding;
If you run the pipe, (carrying the vaporous product from the reactor) to a single 'condenser' which is at 'ambient temperature' (and then run the pipe on from that, to carry the vaporous fuel either to a storage tank or back to the reactor, to burn it as fuel for the reactor). Yes, as the liquid condenses, you will end up with a liquid that, when allowed to stand will 'seperate' into 3 different layers, due to the different specific gravities of the fuels. However, if this pipe running from the reactor goes, in turn, to 3 different condensers, each heated to a different temp., you will get 3 different liquid fuels.
After all, the vapor is already hot, as it comes from the reactor.
For example, (and I'm just pulling #'s out of the air, here); The gas leaving the reactor is at about 400 degrees C. The first condenser is heated to about say,...300 degrees. Any liquid that can condense at 300 degrees, but is a gas at 400 degrees, will accumulate in a liquid form in this first condenser. However, product that remains gaseous at 300 degrees goes on to the second condenbser, which is heated to say,...180 degrees. Any product that condenses at 180 degrees, but is vaporous at 300 degrees, will condense and collect here. However, any product that vaporises at 180 degrees will remain vaporous, will continue on to the 3rd condeser. This one is say,... at ambient temperature, or is even CHILLED. Now, any remaining product that can condense to a liquid will condense in this condenser, and what continues on from this point is the vapor that, for all intents and purposes, will remain vaporous. (unless super-compressed). So, you have 'diesel' in the first tank, kerosene in the second, gasoline in the 3rd, and 'propane' or 'butane' as your final, vaporous product that can only be turned into a liquid by super-compressing.Hope I have made things clearer, rather than more confusing.Jim

[Alec]

3 different liquid fuels

Remember that we first make crude oil and then try to separate it. My cat. sit on top of my reactor and is heated to 300 deg c. The first condenser was heated to 200 deg c and the 2nd to 150 c. I used to get solid wax in the first and thick oil that became solid the next day in the 2nd condenser. As the heat is increased I got less in the 1st and more wax in the 2nd condenser. I took the heat of all the condensers and get better results now. In total I am using 5 condensers. The fuel change from thick to thin from 1 to 5. If I get 2 layers from one condenser, the bottom one is water.

[blackchisel97]

Hi guys, I just want to post couple pics of different patents/setups which were done,tested and working. One of them is pic of the reactor vessel with bottom stirrer. I hope they'll be helpful. During my morning trip to the small scrap place I was able to locate few propane/ compressed air tanks, metal drums,propane burner, firebricks, electric stove elements with heating coils, pipes, valves and lots of plastics. Just a day before the owner had to make a trip to dispose some plastic (monitor cases etc,) and his trip plus disposal fee ended up about $100 for pickup load. It was too cold today to dig from the ice and snow but I got him deeply interested in the idea of getting rid of waste for free
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...l/fortan-2.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...sis_scheme.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...sel/000004.png
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/584/6...638584_297.jpg
http://www.moaboil.com/images/oil-refining-diagram.gif

An a quote from another running plant operation - variety of unwashed post-commercial and industrial non-recyclable plastics, which are fed through a shredder and a granulator. It is then heated in a process chamber, after which it proceeds into the main reactor. There, a proprietary (read "secret") reusable catalyst is used to crack the plastic's hydrocarbons into shorter hydrocarbon chains, which exit the plastic in a gaseous state. Those gases are captured, compressed and stored. This is the third plant which claims to have a catalyst inside a main chamber.


V

[imakebiodiesel]

In my small reactor I have used a 3" BSP threaded nipple with a threaded bung as the opening at the top of the reactor. I seal the thread with a smear of high temperature silicone mastic each time I close it. I have never had a leak past the threads. In fact any leaks i have had have been because of my not very good welds elsewhere on the reactor. On my larger reactor I want to have a much larger opening (16" opening) so I will have to look at some kind of gasket. I had thought of possibly a very large copper washer cut from a single sheet. Copper expands more than steel under heat so it might create a self tightening joint.

[heini]

Good idea - but might not be commercial feasible

Hello all

I nearly read to whole thread and find it quite interesting (living close where we used to have a factory turning wood to alcohol). The idea is good, but at current prices of bunker fuel (even gasoline) the gain from output compare to the input prices would be minimal if not negative.

I do not want to destroy the idea, do not get me wrong - and I appreciate if people want to experiment, as it contributes to innovation

(Even in Switzerland, where I live, we just opened 3 more plants - see links - sorry only in German. The first plant is running since 2006)
http://www.globel-projekt.ch/media/u...ibgeschtzt.pdf

http://www.plastoil.ch/site/images/s...siv_181106.pdf

However, anyone who turns plastic into fuel is throwing away money (imho). As scrap trader I buy anything below these prices:

Price - World scrap - Scrap plastic, metal, Paper,Rubber,Electric,Make your Scrap trade easy!

(so if you sell me sorted plastic at 1USD per Kilo please let me know).

However, I am posting here just to know your opinion - how to you deal with this prices?

Plastic is in high demand and scrap prices are high (maybe people do not know it, otherwise 100% would be always recycled and contribute to the environment. Plastic can be turned always into other products).

Nylon can fetch as high 1.8USD/Kilo. If you get 1 ton for 50USD (my goodness..) save it until you have 22-24 tons (for a container) a then sell it. You might get as close as 20k - only with sorting plastic.

But as said I just want to here your opinion.

Cheers
Heini

[blackchisel97]

Hello all

I nearly read to whole thread and find it quite interesting (living close where we used to have a factory turning wood to alcohol). The idea is good, but at current prices of bunker fuel (even gasoline) the gain from output compare to the input prices would be minimal if not negative.

I do not want to destroy the idea, do not get me wrong - and I appreciate if people want to experiment, as it contributes to innovation

(Even in Switzerland, where I live, we just opened 3 more plants - see links - sorry only in German. The first plant is running since 2006)
http://www.globel-projekt.ch/media/u...ibgeschtzt.pdf

http://www.plastoil.ch/site/images/s...siv_181106.pdf

However, anyone who turns plastic into fuel is throwing away money (imho). As scrap trader I buy anything below these prices:

Price - World scrap - Scrap plastic, metal, Paper,Rubber,Electric,Make your Scrap trade easy!

(so if you sell me sorted plastic at 1USD per Kilo please let me know).

However, I am posting here just to know your opinion - how to you deal with this prices?

Plastic is in high demand and scrap prices are high (maybe people do not know it, otherwise 100% would be always recycled and contribute to the environment. Plastic can be turned always into other products).

Nylon can fetch as high 1.8USD/Kilo. If you get 1 ton for 50USD (my goodness..) save it until you have 22-24 tons (for a container) a then sell it. You might get as close as 20k - only with sorting plastic.

But as said I just want to here your opinion.

Cheers
Heini

Hate to ruin your party but what I researched already contradicts your claims. While it maybe true that some specific materials can fetch quite good price on the market - same reason I would not run drinking bottles through my reactor if I can recycle them and get paid, other plastic scrap is widely available for free. I checked few med size companies which started from table top prototype, experimented with catalyst and within a year built 1T reactor followed by 20 -50T in the next year. They were able to get permits, environmental licenses and approval to operate and ....they are doing very well at the moment.
Beside, even on very small scale, if I can heat my house,water and have mechanical energy available at will, running self sustained system while plastic can be delivered to me for free...I don't see anything wrong with this picture. Reducing plastic waste and preventing from going to the landfill is equally important to me. And finally, I've rather have my independent energy source and food than trade for paper notes which may become denominated and of no value. Most of them has no value already since it has been excessively printed without any backing. Just like Monopoly money.

Just my 10 cents/liter

V

[heini]

Hate to ruin your party but what I researched already contradicts your claims. While it maybe true that some specific materials can fetch quite good price on the market - same reason I would not run drinking bottles through my reactor if I can recycle them and get paid, other plastic scrap is widely available for free. I checked few med size companies which started from table top prototype, experimented with catalyst and within a year built 1T reactor followed by 20 -50T in the next year. They were able to get permits, environmental licenses and approval to operate and ....they are doing very well at the moment.
Beside, even on very small scale, if I can heat my house,water and have mechanical energy available at will, running self sustained system while plastic can be delivered to me for free...I don't see anything wrong with this picture. Reducing plastic waste and preventing from going to the landfill is equally important to me. And finally, I've rather have my independent energy source and food than trade for paper notes which may become denominated and of no value. Most of them has no value already since it has been excessively printed without any backing. Just like Monopoly money.

Just my 10 cents/liter

V

Thank you for your reply. No you have not ruin any party, as I make a living out of scrap trading and have to look for price discrepancies.
My claim is only the prices for scrap and of course you can again confirm it:
(prices FOB, so even that means that plastic have even a higher price at the end consumer):
Price - World scrap - Scrap plastic, metal, Paper,Rubber,Electric,Make your Scrap trade easy!
(please look at recycled plastic down the page - post consumer).

So here I am not talking about PET, but all kinds of plastic (HDPE, LDPE, PP, PS, ABS) . Please just dont turn PC into plastic (code 7), especially clear - as you see it can fetch up to 2USD/kg.

What I am just saying, is that economically it might not make sense (as of now with the current prices). This is just a logical assessment nothing else.

And if you can source plastic very cheap, please, I am interested. This means that the plastic is turned into consumer goods again, meaning it is good for the environment (as to produce some of these plastics need a lot of input).

If you want to do it yourself just go to:
Plastic Scrap Importers - Reliable Plastic Scrap Buyers, Importers and Buying Info at Alibaba.com

Contact some of the dealers (as not all are really trustworthy) and make a good relationship - and trade. However, some expertise on export is advised (otherwise just try me .

Cheers and might you all turn plastic into money (and as well good for the environment).

[blackchisel97]

Thank you for your reply. No you have not ruin any party, as I make a living out of scrap trading and have to look for price discrepancies.
My claim is only the prices for scrap and of course you can again confirm it:
(prices FOB, so even that means that plastic have even a higher price at the end consumer):
Price - World scrap - Scrap plastic, metal, Paper,Rubber,Electric,Make your Scrap trade easy!
(please look at recycled plastic down the page - post consumer).

So here I am not talking about PET, but all kinds of plastic (HDPE, LDPE, PP, PS, ABS) . Please just dont turn PC into plastic (code 7), especially clear - as you see it can fetch up to 2USD/kg.

What I am just saying, is that economically it might not make sense (as of now with the current prices). This is just a logical assessment nothing else.

And if you can source plastic very cheap, please, I am interested. This means that the plastic is turned into consumer goods again, meaning it is good for the environment (as to produce some of these plastics need a lot of input).

If you want to do it yourself just go to:
Plastic Scrap Importers - Reliable Plastic Scrap Buyers, Importers and Buying Info at Alibaba.com

Contact some of the dealers (as not all are really trustworthy) and make a good relationship - and trade. However, some expertise on export is advised (otherwise just try me .

Cheers and might you all turn plastic into money (and as well good for the environment).

I understand your point and it is valid however, for someone like myself would be easier and less costly/more beneficial etc. to reclaim petroleum from certain - yielding higher amounts plastics than create recycling/baling/packing/shipping facility. I'll need more then myself to run such operation with all aspects associated. I'm not looking to get rich but independent.
At the same time I can run small size processing reactor, supplying several folds my demand by myself. I can also run this operation on my property without facing any complains or concerns from residents nearby. I have an opportunity to get this very people interested and trade for goods instead of selling to them. I could almost entirely eliminate using money.
Fuel will not get cheaper for consumers ( regardless of market) same applies to heating oil and gas. It will come the day when people will put only few liters into the tank because of the price. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong.
I use to do some investigating work for company trying to secure large trading deals with Chinese buyer. Copper, sugar, etc. They used few brokers looking for sources. Fortunately, owner decided to run those offers through me before making commitment. All turned out to be fraud and scam attempts. I found Alibaba infested with such offers.
Yes, you can do well trading but there is no science involved so....I'm not interested

V