How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[sviesaISaukstybiu]

Jim,

Thank you for sincere contribution on the subject. Of course, we don't want to do anything that won't and can't work. Each others experience and research can help identify the ideas that cannot work and the ones that can.

Maybe that's a bit different animal from what we were thinking to achieve when heating the gasoline, but look at the Smokey Yunick Hot vapour system: Adiabatic Engine - Hot Vapor Cycle Engine - Henry "Smokey" Yunick as this on the large part convinced me this may really be possible. Of course the key principal might be different and therefore missunderstood. Paradoxically enough, but Smokey says this can only work wirh carburetors and we read that the carburetors were the ones that were able to gain unbelievable mileages. Maybe we don't need to fully vaporize the fuel? What we want is more pressure with less fuel and not to destroy the engine. Any thoughts, experience on that? M.

[Jetijs]

Jim,
I was not proposing vaporizing the gasoline/diesel, what good will that do? I proposed heating the fuel and the vapors till thermal cracking occurs and you end up with propane, butane and methane instead of just hot gasoline vapors. If you can crack plastic thermally into gasses till C5, it should be achievable using gasoline instead of plastic, only the temperatures need to bee greater.
I explained it in more detail here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...icient+designs

[Betopty]

Interested Newbie

Hi awesome thread, has to be read twice to get all the info straight, specially as it has evolved throughout the lenght of it.
I stumbled upon this about two weeks ago and am fascinated by it. I run a company that collects about 25,000 kg per month of hdpe for inhouse recycling as we make rotomoulded products. I cant wait to make a pilot system to use in all my dirty, mixed or unusable pp, ldpe and hdpe . I specially liked the alternative of making thinner and kerosene as final alternative products as these are more than twice the cost of gasoline here. I have started buying parts and will hopefully have some sort of setup soon. If I may suggest an alternative to the high cost of plastics, instead of going to the recycler, just go over to a large retailer and offer to pick up their plastic bags (mostly out of ldpe) they will look at you like you are crazy and if you insist they will fill your truck and ask you when you'll be coming back, not unlike restuarants did with waste vegetable oil a while back. We collect over 250 tons per year of plastic ldpe bags and pay little if any for them, Well.. Giving each A bottle of spirits in christmas as well as their birthday dosnt`count as payment does it?
I also humbly request we get back into the topic of pyrolisis of plastics to fuel. The other topics are extremely interesting, but are discussed magnificently in other forums, and in more detail as well. Just my 37.8 pesos ($.02)

[imakebiodiesel]

I have to agree with the previous post, the thread has wandered off topic lately and we need to get back to pyrolysis of plastic to fuel. I think the subject we need to look at more closely is catalysts.
I use small blocks 15mm square of a catalyst made from a local common red clay mixed with hydrated lime. These fill my reflux column which I maintain at 220C. The fuel I obtain is 60% diesel, 35% kerosene and 5% petrol. I get less gas than I have done with other catalysts and this suits me fine as what I really want is diesel.
My catalyst lasts abut 5 batches and then stops working( I start to get waxy fuel)
I believe it is possible to tailor the catalyst/temperature to produce different proportions of the fractions.
What other catalysts are being used and what results are you getting?

[Betopty]

complete weight of resultants

"The fuel I obtain is 60% diesel, 35% kerosene and 5% petrol"
Is your mix waste oil, or plastic...What weight percentage of the original mix is this. KG to KG orliters to liters. I like your easy to find catalysts and your relatively lower temps.

[imakebiodiesel]

My mix is roughly 80%PE, 15% PP and 5% PS. My reactor temperature is the same as everyone's 380 - 450C but the head of my reflux column is 220C max.
From each kilo of plastic I get roughly 470 ml of liquid fuel ( s.g.0.810) and about 40 gms of char, the rest I presume is gas. each batch is slightly different but these are typical figures.

[blackchisel97]

waste mix ratio

My mix is roughly 80%PE, 15% PP and 5% PS. My reactor temperature is the same as everyone's 380 - 450C but the head of my reflux column is 220C max.
From each kilo of plastic I get roughly 470 ml of liquid fuel ( s.g.0.810) and about 40 gms of char, the rest I presume is gas. each batch is slightly different but these are typical figures.

Did you try different ratios eg. higher PP to PE ratio? What yields more paraffin is PE. Just wonder if more PP wouldn't result in higher diesel output. This maybe of course matter of temp. tuning and catalyst as well. I'm after diesel oil too since I can use it for heating.
Thanks for posting results

V

[imakebiodiesel]

The ratios I quoted are the ratios of waste plastic that are available to me and they work well in my system. Too much pp produces a fuel that darkens over a couple of days( oxidation I think) 100% PE works ok but tend to wax a bit. I dont use much PS because it is so bulky and I have another unrelated use for PS anyway. I think the temperatures and the catalyst has more effect on the final mix of fuel than the plastic ratios.

[otpadnoulje]

Imakebiodiesel, try to increase reflux temperature. Don't use activated clay. So much uncondensable means, your too strong catalyst overkills the heavy molecules.

[imakebiodiesel]

Ive used reflux temps up to 280C but found the the fuel was very waxy. I agree that my catalyst is too strong for my needs, if I activate it with sulphuric acid it becomes even stronger giving me mostly gas, petrol and some kerosene.Simply using less catalyst does not work as the decrease in surface area stops the reflux action. Maybe if I mixed the clay with a neutral material it might reduce its strength.

[tony steinke]

[QUOTE=imakebiodiesel;176653]My mix is roughly 80%PE, 15% PP and 5% PS. My reactor temperature is the same as everyone's 380 - 450C but the head of my reflux column is 220C max.
From each kilo of plastic I get roughly 470 ml of liquid fuel ( s.g.0.810) and about 40 gms of char, the rest I presume is gas. each batch is slightly different but these are typical figures.[/QUOTE Do you know why you aren't getting closer to 1 litre of fuel for every kilo of plastic as stated in the beginning of this thread?

[imakebiodiesel]

To be honest I dont know why, one factor may be that sometimes I dont keep heating until the char is completely dry, it takes a lot of energy to extract the last few ml of fuel so I stop it early and remove the char as a sort of black paste. I dont mind that there is a lot of gas because it can be directed back to the reactor and burned, saving other fuel.

[Davewilson24]

One about to be born here in the uk! Love the concept!

[Davewilson24]

Uk

One about to be born here in the uk! Love the concept!

[dutchdivco]

Sorry

If I contributed to us getting off topic, and yeah, Jetsis, I do now remember that what you were talking about is different, sorry about that. And yes, I know about smokey Yunik; have to remember that a car, in order to be useful has to drive down the road, and maybe get in a wreck; what he built was a rolling BOMB.
Anyway, getting back on subject, you state how much liquid fuels you are getting from plastic. Can you make any estimate of how much gaseous fuels you are getting? I realise its harder to measure, than liquid. Would be nice to get SOME kind of idea, even if its an estimate.
And exactly what kind of companies are you talking about, that would LOVE to have someone haul off their plastic bags? I assume this is someone who otherwise is throwing them in a dumpster, and PAYING someone to haul them off.Jim