How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[dutchdivco]

oops

I've been 'off-thread' for awhile; I didn't 'catch' that you seem to have adopted the term 'uncondensable gas', ot differentiate between the vapor at the end of the process, and the liquid 'gas (oline)'. Sorry about that.
I actually plan on using the Uncondensable gas for a variety of things, and want to be able to store it in a reasonable and safe manner.

Oh, and perhaps the stainless steel, or something in it, acts as a 'catalyst'. Would be easy to test; just use a section of piping made out of SS, and one made out of 'other' steel; run 2 batches using the same plastic, one with the SS section, and one with the other, and see what your yield is. Could even use a SS screen in the piping, perhaps? Jim

[imakebiodiesel]

There is no simple answer to the makeup of the uncondensable gas ( not gasoline). It will contain ethane, methane, butane, propane,pentane, ethene, methene,butene,propene,pentene,CO, CO2,Hydrogen in varying proportions according to the mix of plastics and the contaminating dirt, glues, labels etc in the mix. With such a wide variation in compostition it would be difficult to settle on a single pressure/temp setting. However the type of compressor used to fill the tanks of natural gas powered vehicles would be suitable if a bit expensive.
During the acute fuel shortages caused by world war 2 many European cities ran their buses on Producer Gas which was stored uncompressed in a large bags attached to the vehicle, While I accept this would not look cool attached to your favourite gas guzzler it might be a suitable way to run a generator or something similar.

Stainless steel tanks are usually made of thinner sheet than an equivalent mild steel one ( because of the higher cost) and this might explain the faster heat up time.

My nearest city is Dublin, London is not too far away.

[quintusk]

...

Stainless steel tanks are usually made of thinner sheet than an equivalent mild steel one ( because of the higher cost) and this might explain the faster heat up time.

...

Asad Farooqui can you confirm this?

[ndsunil]

S.S. instead of mild steel

Hello ;
Good ,Your reactor drawing seems to be quite close to my drawing which I suggested few months back .

I would like to suggest you to use only NEW-Stainless steel sheet for fabricating the Main-reactor .

I would like to share my experience with you . I made a small 02-3kg reactor with electric heater-bands & Bottom gas-burner .
I used M/steel for the reactor . It use to take 05-6 hours to reach 400 celcius .
I threw away the M/steel & instead re-fabricated reactor with S/Steel.
Same heating system was installed on the S/S reactor .
Amazingly the 400 ceclius reached in less than 01-hour instead of 5-hours.

I am surprised the temperature moved to 400 degrees in an hour with stainless steel material compare to 5 hrs in case of mild steel ..

[Asad Farooqui]

S/Steel reactor

Hi, I'm amazed at the difference. That's a ratio of 5:1 !! This result is most unexpected.

So I puzzle over why a SS vessel would have such a huge difference. Perhaps it has nothing to do with thermal conductivity of the metal?

I asked 3 fitter welders who work in the dairy industry where SS is used almost exclusively. The response was that SS is more likely to crack, steel was better for heat and SS not a good conductor of heat.

Are there other factors that may have influenced the result?
Thanks.

Hello ;
Your fitters are not well informed about S/steel & the Dairy fabricators have Zero experience in Refinery stuff .
Are you aware that all the Big refineries use special grade of S/steel for there reactors .

Not every s/steel can be used for reactors. There are special grades of steel for heating reactors which can withstand heat & temperature . Even there are grades which can be placed direct on the flame without cracking .

S/steel is a far better conductor what I experienced . It quickly heats up & cools down . On the other hand Mild steel takes a long time to heat up & again long time to cool-down .

Note one thing, longer the residence time of the feedstock than more are the chances of side reactions to take place resulting in other undesirable products to be formed which becomes part of your liquid fuel & will definitely lower the quality/performance of your fuel .
That's why it's best to have shortest residence time .

I have seen details of a latest reactor which pyrolyse waste plastic in just 30-seconds Only, Not hours . It is only possible with special grade of S/steel .


Lastly I would say that if you are making a small reactor of 02-10kg capacity, just experimental work, than it's OK.
BUT if you plan to go for something bigger for commercial purpose than please don't even think about M/steel .

[Asad Farooqui]

S/steel tanks

Asad Farooqui can you confirm this?

Hello ;
S/steel tanks can be made-up of any thickness of s/steel sheet .

NEVER use thinner S/steel NOR Use OLD S/Steel sheets .

Remember one think Used S/steel sheets may look good appearance wise but it looses its properties after a standard time period .
I made a mistake of buying an old-used S/steel tanks for making a heating vessel . The used tank looked quite good But when I used it as heating tank I have to through it away after a month .

[Excalibur]

Thanks for the reply.

What grade of SS is recommended? Also what thickness would be considered optimum?

Logically, I reason that stainless is a very generic term and each grade has particular properties that make it suitable for certain tasks.

I note that you also warn against used SS tanks. Does it mean that SS has a comparitively short "use by" date? What lifespan are you projecting?

Thanks. It's great food for thought.

[CRMoore]

Thanks imakebiodiesel in Dublin
Excalibur?
Asad Farooqui ?
Others?

[CRMoore]

Organic Nomenclature
1 C is meth-, single bonds are -ane so methane is CH4 _(-enes have double bonds-not possible with 1 C so methene not possible if using IUPAC naming)

2C eth-, ethane C2H6, ethene (common name ethylene) C2H4, ethyne (common name acetylene),C2H2 has triple bond

3C prop-,Propane C3H8, Propene C3H6, Propyne C3H4.

Quiz later!

(AF I see is in/near Karachi)

[Asad Farooqui]

seminar

Organic Nomenclature
1 C is meth-, single bonds are -ane so methane is CH4 _(-enes have double bonds-not possible with 1 C so methene not possible if using IUPAC naming)

2C eth-, ethane C2H6, ethene (common name ethylene) C2H4, ethyne (common name acetylene),C2H2 has triple bond

3C prop-,Propane C3H8, Propene C3H6, Propyne C3H4.

Quiz later!

(AF I see is in/near Karachi)

Hello CR Moore;
Iam located in Karachi, Pakistan .

I guess you plan to arrange a seminar in USA or Europe ?

What topic you intend to arrange a seminar/conference ???
Here on this forum most of the discussion is focused on Lab-scale small pyro-units . Which is good for starters .
But
Not much is said about medium to large scale units producing 1,000 to 10,000 liters of liquid fuel DAILY. Only these units are commercially viable.


Lastly I would suggest that you should also include topics about the possibility of making Bio-fuels from waste Bio-MASS .
For example Agricultural wastes like corncobs , rice husk , sawdust .
Fish wastes, ALGAE & even Animal wastes .
A friend of mine is working on a patented technology of Co-processing Bio-waste with waste plastic / Tyres / WMO .
Amazingly this co-processing Pyrolyses will be done in just 30-seconds not Hours.

[blackchisel97]

I'm trying to convince companies from China to sent a sample flanges. Locally it would cost near $500 for just one set - main reactor. Ridiculous
If I succeed I'll share the contact for those who're interested.

Vtech

[dutchdivco]

Blackchisel

Based on the harbor frieght tools I've have seen , from China, I'd be leery. Old saying, "Its like buying OATS; You want clean, top grade oats, your going to pay 'top dollar'; now, if you don't mind oats that have already been run through the horse a few times, well, thats MUCH cheaper!

Coarse I realise we all have different goals, and different budgets, etc. I suspect unless these flanges from China are cheap enough that you can buy say,...100 of them at a time, and change them out after each run, it MAY be more practical to pay the 'top dollar' price. Jim

[Excalibur]

I'm trying to convince companies from China to sent a sample flanges. Locally it would cost near $500 for just one set - main reactor. Ridiculous
If I succeed I'll share the contact for those who're interested.
Vtech

Vtech
What about checking out some of your local junk yards. Locally I have a scrap metal dealer who I've bought lots of stuff from. I think it's a dollar a kilo for steel from him.
Redundant plant including old flanges, could be just the thing to be turning up.
I've started keeping an eye out for bits for when I want to step up the size of my plant. I have a lathe, so I could make them from plate if I absolutely had to.

[mercedes 308]

Lastly I would suggest that you should also include topics about the possibility of making Bio-fuels from waste Bio-MASS .
For example Agricultural wastes like corncobs , rice husk , sawdust .
Fish wastes, ALGAE & even Animal wastes .
A friend of mine is working on a patented technology of Co-processing Bio-waste with waste plastic / Tyres / WMO .
Amazingly this co-processing Pyrolysis will be done in just 30-seconds not Hours.

I think we need to comprise a list of materials that can be pyrolised into fuel,
Other than plastic, waste oil and tyres....

[blackchisel97]

Vtech
What about checking out some of your local junk yards. Locally I have a scrap metal dealer who I've bought lots of stuff from. I think it's a dollar a kilo for steel from him.
Redundant plant including old flanges, could be just the thing to be turning up.
I've started keeping an eye out for bits for when I want to step up the size of my plant. I have a lathe, so I could make them from plate if I absolutely had to.

Yes, I'll have to make a trip to the bigger yard. I didn't find anything nearby and few companies I tried (from China) are scam. Those legitimate don't want to bother with retail order. If I would have a lathe....

Thanks
Vtech