How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Hi All,

I have finished fabricating my 1st reactor from a used compressor tank 50ltr capacity. I have one condensing unit as I intend to process WMO into diesel fuel for Electricity Generator and a stationary engine. I know these are not fussy about quality of fuel. so I will start of with one condensor and see how it goes.

Most of us are using multiple condenser stages for a number of reasons. First, it can be useful to separate the fractions for different uses. Here are three fractions, diesel, kerosene, and gasoline from the distillation of motor oil

The green is coming from a copper pipe after the retort. I will be changing it out soon.


Secondly if you try to get all your condensate into one container, then you could end up with the problem up thread of waxes plugging your vent line, which you do not want to ever have happen, or, Oops, Kaboom!!

I will be heating with Charcoals as electricity is expensive and not reliable at all, we have frequent power cuts, besides I want to generate my own power from the genset. im in Africa.

Few questions: im worried if Charcoal will be able to heat the WMO to the required temperature of 400deg celc and if so in a reasonable time frame maybe 2hrs or so. has anyone tried heating with an open flame or charcoals???

I invite any comments and suggestions. I will be firing the unit on monday...

There is no reason why you could not fuel your retort with charcoal or wood, or coal, or just about any flammable substance. However, electricity is easier to control. If you are going to use a solid, liquid or gaseous fuel, then you ware going to want to control the feed of the fuel very carefully, and take a long time getting to your reaction temperatures.

[Excalibur]

Hi All,

I have finished fabricating my 1st reactor from a used compressor tank 50ltr capacity. I have one condensing unit as I intend to process WMO into diesel fuel for Electricity Generator and a stationary engine. I know these are not fussy about quality of fuel. so I will start of with one condensor and see how it goes.

I will be heating with Charcoals as electricity is expensive and not reliable at all, we have frequent power cuts, besides I want to generate my own power from the genset. im in Africa.

Few questions: im worried if Charcoal will be able to heat the WMO to the required temperature of 400deg celc and if so in a reasonable time frame maybe 2hrs or so. has anyone tried heating with an open flame or charcoals???

I invite any comments and suggestions. I will be firing the unit on monday...

Charcoal will easily have enough heat. One issue will be the control of that heat. This post shows my earlier experiment with wood firing. By this time I'd worked out the importance of a reflux and how to make one. The first vessel above the retort is the reflux. This allows any condensate that condenses there to run back to the retort for further cracking. Without this reflux, you will get wax, not liquid.

[Babataku]

Charcoal will easily have enough heat. One issue will be the control of that heat. This post shows my earlier experiment with wood firing. By this time I'd worked out the importance of a reflux and how to make one. The first vessel above the retort is the reflux. This allows any condensate that condenses there to run back to the retort for further cracking. Without this reflux, you will get wax, not liquid.

Thanks for the advice, Does WMO have waxes?? I thought waxing problem was from PE, did I miss something? please correct me

[Babataku]

Most of us are using multiple condenser stages for a number of reasons. First, it can be useful to separate the fractions for different uses. Here are three fractions, diesel, kerosene, and gasoline from the distillation of motor oil

The green is coming from a copper pipe after the retort. I will be changing it out soon.


Secondly if you try to get all your condensate into one container, then you could end up with the problem up thread of waxes plugging your vent line, which you do not want to ever have happen, or, Oops, Kaboom!!

There is no reason why you could not fuel your retort with charcoal or wood, or coal, or just about any flammable substance. However, electricity is easier to control. If you are going to use a solid, liquid or gaseous fuel, then you ware going to want to control the feed of the fuel very carefully, and take a long time getting to your reaction temperatures.

Beyond Biodiesel,

when you distill WMO do you get waxes? why is your diesel range from WMO green? very interesting result.

also what are you using to stabilize the fuel produced, I read somewhere in the forum that the fuel will oxidize and turn into a dark color or even sludge. what do you recommend for WMO?

Many thanks for helping

[Excalibur]

Thanks for the advice, Does WMO have waxes?? I thought waxing problem was from PE, did I miss something? please correct me

Sorry, I see now you're processing WMO.
So no waxes with wmo but a reflux would be required if you want lots of considerably lighter fractions than the feedstock.

[imakebiodiesel]

Heating with charcoal will easily provide enough heat to distill wmo or crack plastics. I sometimes use charcoal in my tool making forge and I get temps above 1600C. I have used it to melt copper and bronze as well.
Your problem will be how to control the heat. If you force an air flow to the charcoal from beneath as in a forge you will be able to control he heat by controlling the airflow. Ill draw a diagram and post it in my next post.

[imakebiodiesel]

Here is a possible design. An ordinary steel oil drum would be ok for the container because the thin steel would be protected by the refactory material. If you cant get refactory cement you could make your own by mixing cement sand, ash and finely chopped straw. The first heating burns away the straw leaving voids that will insulate.
The air can be provided by any kind of fan or bellows but you must be aBle to control the supply of air.


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[Beyond Biodiesel]

Thanks for the advice, Does WMO have waxes?? I thought waxing problem was from PE, did I miss something? please correct me

There are a number of fractions that come from distilling hydrocarbons. motor oil comes from the paraffin fraction, so there might be some "waxes" which are paraffins.

Beyond Biodiesel,

when you distill WMO do you get waxes? why is your diesel range from WMO green? very interesting result.

As stated in my original post the green color is coming from copper tubing that is the vent from the retort. When the temperature of the retort goes up to about 400F (200c) the fractions come out green. I plan to install a stainless steel line there, but I like using the copper line as a source of heat for my first trap after the retort.

also what are you using to stabilize the fuel produced, I read somewhere in the forum that the fuel will oxidize and turn into a dark color or even sludge. what do you recommend for WMO?

Many thanks for helping

Polymerization is a documented fact of the distillation of hydrocarbons. I am at present doing nothing to prevent it, partly because I am not producing enough fuel to run anything on, and partly because I want to see how much of a problem Polymerization becomes. My samples are months old, and I have seen no significant Polymerization at this time.

Polymerization is supposedly a function of time, and the presence of copper in the cracking process, but it has not become an issue at this time.

I do have samples of new motor oil blended with gasoline that have sat in the sample containers for a year. A few months ago I inspected those containers and found a thin film at the bottom of those containers. I believe that thin film might be evidence of Polymerization. If so, them Polymerization is quite small and insignificant, but might become a problem over time and running a large volume of cracked fuels through the same engine and fuel system.

PID controllers.

Realizing that the griddle that I was using to heat my retort could only go to about 400F, and I needed to go to about 600F, and it was limited only by the temperature controller, then I ordered a SNR PID Temperature Controller, from Brainytrade, via Amazon for about $25 US.

The SNR PID Temperature Controller arrived a week late, and failed after 2 minutes of use. I emailed the company and never heard back from them. I looked elsewhere for a PID controller.

A Google search for a PID controller brought up only the SNR PID Temperature Controller sold from a variety of sources, for as little as $25. It is a tiny little thing, 1/16 DIN, which means the face is less than 2" square, and it is less than 3.5" deep. But, it doesn't work.


This morning I received a reply from Brainy Trade in response to my complaint with Amazon.

Dear Jeffrey,

Thank you for contacting us. I am sorry we do not receive any email for you. I am apologize for the inconvenience it may caused by this issue, Would you please kindly help send it back to us, Please write the RMA#104-6183976-4608237 on the return package and ship it to the address below. BrainyTrade US Inc.Ms Ellen Wu 153 Linden st Passaic NJ 07055-2127

We will exchange a working one to you as soon as possible once you ship it out, please provide us with the tracking number so that we could process it as soon as possible for you. Is that acceptable to you? Or please kindly let us know how could we serve you better? We will try our best to make you satisfied in this transaction.

Should you have any more questions, please feel free to contact us. We will try our best to help.

Best regards,

SophieCustomer Service Department. BrainyTrade US Inc.

I sent them a complaint right away after their PID controller croaked, but there was no response. It is possible that my email to them fell into their SPAM folder. But, I think Amazon has more pull than an individual customer has. So, if Brainy Trade wants to keep Amazon, then they had better treat their customers better.

While it is good to look at what "Jetiji" posted, I do not think we need to exactly duplicate his process without rethinking every stage of it. For instance his flange and seal system is a bust.

I think we just need to have a dialog about PID controllers. Here is a PID controller I found on eBay for the same price, but it comes ready to go with a thermocouple and SSR. I just ordered it. But, I will also return the dead PID to Brainy Trade, to see if they will ever be able to provide me with a working one. However, these PID controllers are so cheap, I really don't think they should bother with a return. After all, they are not likely to repair it.

However, I have lost a great deal of research time to cheap knock-off PID controllers. If I do not have a working PID controller within a week, I am going to urge my investor to pay for a reliable PID controller from a reputable research equipment supplier, which is going to cost $300-$500. I would also like to have a USB interface on it, so that I can record my programs on my computer and upload, and download them when I need to.

[Babataku]

Here is a possible design. An ordinary steel oil drum would be ok for the container because the thin steel would be protected by the refactory material. If you cant get refactory cement you could make your own by mixing cement sand, ash and finely chopped straw. The first heating burns away the straw leaving voids that will insulate.
The air can be provided by any kind of fan or bellows but you must be aBle to control the supply of air.


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Thanks for the diag, really helps. I should fire my unit on monday and I will post results. excited...

[imakebiodiesel]

The PID temp controller that you mention from ebay is the same as 2 of mine. They work really well and I have had no problems with them. They are absurdly cheap and if you are worried about reliability, at that price buy an extra one and keep it as a spare.
Today I decided to test my light fraction. I filled my strimmer/mower with it blended with 1/25 2 stroke oil and started it up. It started from cold easily and ran without any smoke or unusual fumes. 4 hours later and one litre of fuel has been used. I took out the spark plug and its clean and healthy looking.
Im really pleased with the way it ran and my wife is pleased too, not so much at the new fuel as the tidy yard and garden.

[Excalibur]

Today I decided to test my light fraction. I filled my strimmer/mower with it blended with 1/25 2 stroke oil and started it up. It started from cold easily and ran without any smoke or unusual fumes. 4 hours later and one litre of fuel has been used. I took out the spark plug and its clean and healthy looking.
Im really pleased with the way it ran and my wife is pleased too, not so much at the new fuel as the tidy yard and garden.

That sounds like success!..and a happy wife is a major major bonus! Does this fuel have the strong smell that others have complained about? Does it ignite readily from a match? What were the ambient temperatures the mower started from? What I'm puzzling over is how to reasonably identify a light fraction that will work as intended for a petrol motor. I'm trying to imagine a test or series of tests that conclude whether a light fraction sample will start and run especially when cold temps are predominant. Ideally, I'd like to know this before tipping into a fuel tank. Any thoughts? Thanks.

[imakebiodiesel]

Admittedly the fact that a 30cc two stroke engine will run happily on my fuel does not mean it is perfect.
There are a number of tests that can be carried out without expensive test equipment.

Flash point test. This involves filling a metal cup, I use a baked bean tin, and passing a flame over the surface. If the fuel does not ignite I heat the fuel 10 degrees C and try again, and so on till the fuel ignites. Keep a lid handy to put out the flame.
My medium fraction ( kerosene ) ignites at 80C
My light fraction ignites immediately which means it has a flash point below 20C.

Specific gravity. This test is easy to carry out. Place a litre jug or better still a graduated cylinder on a digital kitchen scales. Pour a quantity of fuel into the jug and note the volume in ml. Also note the weight in grams. Divide the weight by the volume and you have the specific gravity.
My medium fraction is SG 0.78 and my light fraction is SG 0.68.

Octane rating. This test is normally carried our using an expensive specially designed engine and here in Ireland a test costs 450 -650 euro.
However you can test approximately for octane rating using any old fashioned petrol engined car with a carburetor and a distributor. Disconnect the fuel tank and connect a one litre bottle to the fuel line. Fill the bottle with 95 octane standard petrol and start the engine. Once the engine is warmed up and idling happily without any choke, loosen the clamp at the base of the distributor and very slowly retard the timing. Stop at the first sound of knocking. Mark that position and return the timing to normal.
Now fill the bottle with your own fuel, run the engine for 15 minutes to use up any standard fuel in the carburetor, and repeat the procedure.
If the engine begins to knock before you reach the marked point your fuel is lower than 95 octane.
You could do several reference tests with 97 octane and 100 octane fuels to get a more accurate picture.
I have not been able to do the test yet. I have a diesel car, but a friend has offered a 1982 toyota corolla which might be suitable.

My cold start was at 20 degrees C so its not much of a test for winter use. Adding 10% toluene would raise the octane rating and improve cold weather performance if it proves necessary.

[imakebiodiesel]

Some where back in the pages of this forum I described the viscosity test which would also be useful.

[Beyond Biodiesel]

The PID temp controller that you mention from ebay is the same as 2 of mine. They work really well and I have had no problems with them. They are absurdly cheap and if you are worried about reliability, at that price buy an extra one and keep it as a spare.

Thanks, it is good to get some feedback on the PID controller, because the one I got failed right out of the box. I will send back the dead one, and hope they return a good one. In the interim I have ordered the otherone I linked to, so I will have at least 2 on hand.

Today I decided to test my light fraction. I filled my strimmer/mower with it blended with 1/25 2 stroke oil and started it up. It started from cold easily and ran without any smoke or unusual fumes. 4 hours later and one litre of fuel has been used. I took out the spark plug and its clean and healthy looking.
Im really pleased with the way it ran and my wife is pleased too, not so much at the new fuel as the tidy yard and garden.

Running experimental fuels on a cheap disposable and/or easy to repair engine is a good idea.

What I'm puzzling over is how to reasonably identify a light fraction that will work as intended for a petrol motor. I'm trying to imagine a test or series of tests that conclude whether a light fraction sample will start and run especially when cold temps are predominant. Ideally, I'd like to know this before tipping into a fuel tank. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Specific gravity. This test is easy to carry out. Place a litre jug or better still a graduated cylinder on a digital kitchen scales. Pour a quantity of fuel into the jug and note the volume in ml. Also note the weight in grams. Divide the weight by the volume and you have the specific gravity.
My medium fraction is SG 0.78 and my light fraction is SG 0.68.

Specific gravity is probably the easiest way identify a fraction. And, weighing a known volume is a cheap way of testing the Specific gravity, if you have a reasonably accurate way of determining weight and volume. However, a hydrometer is pretty cheap and does not require anything other than a jug to test your fuel with. So, I bought a set of hydrometers for testing my experimental fuels.

Some where back in the pages of this forum I described the viscosity test which would also be useful.

I also bought a set of viscups, because a homemade viscup tends to not be so reliable. The orifice and the volume are the key components to the viscup. Here is a link to information on Alternative Diesel Fuels Research Instrumentation

[jonathan]

reactor heating

what is the better thing for retort reactor? heating low and go upto 400 degrees . it is good idea to heat very fast like 20kw and go up to 400 degrees and then stay in that tempreture?